Is it time we had Public Test Servers?

Hey,

Following the recent upset with job changes I've seen, and from issues with balancing the past 2 expansions and ARR, do you think this game would benefit from a Public Test Server so players can try out changes and give feedback before they go live?

Maybe this would help communication with the devs. When we Beta tested ARR story cutscenes were omitted so no spoilers got out and a lot of content was limited, I think this could be done again to help improve the game over the long term maybe.

What are peoples opinions? Do you think this could help?

Maybe, only if it was limited to a select few who actually know the jobs inside and out, and recognise the current problems and can identify any new ones.

Opening such a thing up to just anybody will lead to disaster.

People would only argue more because they had a greater taste of part of what could be changed. They just see the tooltips right now and flip their nut over it, imagine how enraged they would be if they got to partially experience it firsthand. When people don't have all the information possible they tend to fill in the gaps with the worst possible thing they can imagine. I don't think it would be a good idea.

There's really no need for that...

The biggest problem tends to be server load, and a limited test won't cover that.

I honestly don't know what the issue is a lot of the job changes are perfectly fine, even my husband who has played Scholar since its inception is perfectly content to carry on playing it because he see's no issues.

So no I don't really feel there's a need for a Public Test server at all personally.

I mean a ptr would be fine we've had some awfully strange choices in the past that completely break things like 20% balance... or just lack luster changes to help certain things. Would a ptr help though no because the language barrier would stop everything anyway sadly i imagine. Not sure why everyone here is against a ptr they work perfectly fine in other mmos.

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Originally Posted by LashL

I mean a ptr would be fine we've had some awfully strange choices in the past that completely break things like 20% balance... or just lack luster changes to help certain things. Would a ptr help though no because the language barrier would stop everything anyway sadly i imagine. Not sure why everyone here is against a ptr they work perfectly fine in other mmos.

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we had different language areas for feedback on the ARR Alpha/Beta forums so that's how we used to report changes. We ended up with a well balanced game a part from Scholar and Warrior, Scholar was OP because it was introduced just before launch with no testing, and Warriors broken state was due to a Bandaid patch rework the pushed out mid raid tier without any testing either.

All of the issues we have had regarding balance can be sourced to lack of testing in a public environment.

Tbh people would just use it as an opportunity to play the game asap and learn anything and everything about the content before it comes out, instead of actually testing. That's what happened to wow and what i love about 14, prog is actually prog and not just a race to see who can do the preset strategies faster. a PTR would be awful for this sort of environment

There already are Public Test Servers.

They're called the Live Servers.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lexocpma

Tbh people would just use it as an opportunity to play the game asap and learn anything and everything about the content before it comes out, instead of actually testing. That's what happened to wow and what i love about 14, prog is actually prog and not just a race to see who can do the preset strategies faster. a PTR would be awful for this sort of environment

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I agree with this. I don't want content to be playable before release. It would only create tension between those who want to experience the game spoiler-free and those who want it done as quickly as possible.

That said, for things like job changes, I believe it would be OK. Just something like the media tour - one zone (not even a new zone, can be a repurposed old zone or one purpose-built for testing) with some striking dummies, a variety of mobs and maybe a repurposed dungeon and trial to test party stuff would be enough to try out how the jobs play and give feedback.

You know what would come of a Public Test realm...

"They aren't listening to our feedback at all" (See WoW)

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Originally Posted by Lexocpma

Tbh people would just use it as an opportunity to play the game asap and learn anything and everything about the content before it comes out, instead of actually testing. That's what happened to wow and what i love about 14, prog is actually prog and not just a race to see who can do the preset strategies faster. a PTR would be awful for this sort of environment

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This is what happens on ESO everytime they put a new trial on their PTS system. Doing a "world first clear" just mean who (on PC) can execute the strategies fastest on launch day.

Also, most companies don't bother to include their Console population in their test environments (Overwatch or ESO for example), making this kind of early access unfair.

No, not a public one. A private one with well-known and proven players might work. Public test servers are just toxic vats of nasty people who just use it as an excuse to play early and then whine about everything.

I would say no for right now; any player suggested adjustments would probably be ignored or the dev team wouldn't have time to implement them.

I agree wholeheartedly with Sebazy, they need to expand Sato's team. They have four people working on seventeen jobs with quandaries like "We can't take verraise away but letting RDM keep it makes prog a bit wonky and it's hard to balance around that capability" stopping them in their tracks even when not dealing with healers.

In my layman's opinion they need to increase their combat development staff, and perhaps reach out to the community that has so far been theorycrafting their work anyways, and create a bit of a dialogue.

If there were a test realm I'd like it to be established after an expansion of the team, and be one with a parser enabled so the theorycrafters could be hand in hand with the developers.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

People would only argue more because they had a greater taste of part of what could be changed. They just see the tooltips right now and flip their nut over it, imagine how enraged they would be if they got to partially experience it firsthand. When people don't have all the information possible they tend to fill in the gaps with the worst possible thing they can imagine. I don't think it would be a good idea.

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This really. In literally every. single. video from the media event, there is a big bold NOT FINAL AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE somewhere on the screen. And what do people do? Ignore it like it's not even there and throw the ultimate in tantrums save video rants as though it were final.

Then call you names and get nasty when you dare call them out on it.

Most problems ffxiv got are server or code related really.

I don't think it's needed, first no consensus would be reach as far as design and class balance because people want different things, the community in any games has never agreed on what they want. Most notably, people want their class to be the best. :)

Since as far as I am concerned, FF14 has done a great job of releasing with few bugs, most of which have not been game breaking...so their internal testing team is doing a good enough job as far as bug reporting.

I don't see the point really.

I would say the Media Tour is the closest thing people will have to it past playing at events like E3 and the like before it's release. If you want to be cheeky you can say "Preorder early access is!" but to be completely honest we know those servers are going to drop like a rock for most of the 28th.

I wouldn't advise a Public Test though in a normal sense. It sounds good as an idea but as multiple people said it would absolutely be exploited. People would be posting raid guides far before the others and it would take a lot of the coming experience.

What I would say would be a neat idea is to specifically craft test zones (maybe have it in the style of Omegascape as it's got the digital feel), giving encounters similar to what we would fight in the main game albeit on a far less grander scale.

You could have them mirror guildhests in terms of how they function offering multiple instances for different encounters but at the new level cap and with the new toolkit. Doesn't have too be glamorous for the encounters and could be simple enemy models/aoes but would at least allow people to feel the flow of the jobs on a general level.

As stated above the media tour is our version of a public test. They received feedback from people who actually play the game and they are getting preliminary feedback. That's all they can do before going live. They will make adjustments before release and immediately after release. People still won't be happy but that's life.

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Originally Posted by Knoahl

All of the issues we have had regarding balance can be sourced to lack of testing in a public environment.

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Back when NIN came out and the community found a super optimal rotation that dropped mnks place and the devs had no idea. I agree that a test server should exist - it could only benefit both sides of the coin. Especially in situations like this, pre expansion. Would give a lot of mia players a reason to log in and contribute if they wanted to.

A PTR is a double edged sword. On one hand yes it involves the community a bit more and helps make everyone happy or at the very least happier.

However, as people have pointed out that a PTR comes with a few inherent flaws and a few bad apples (which looking at these forums we have an abundance of) could and would destroy it for the rest of us.

So what about a limited ptr with only “experts” of any given role or job via the community. Well this is also built in with an inherent flaw, they will only ever really speak to what they want and i would wager a large part of the midcore/casual fanbase would be left in the dirt with jobs way more complex then they need to be to give the hardcores a better challenge.

There is also a world wide community and all of its feedback to think of and logistics to figure out on all that and you will constantly have dual sides arguing every change and while yes it could and should be a positive to both it could equally be bad for both. More stressed out devs trying to work out suggestions and balance it between hardcore and midcore/casual audience and more players feeling excluded and like their feedback doesnt matter creating this new depth of salt mines based on the ptr elites.. telling everyone how to play the game. Or at least the potential for it.

If you want a Public Test Server, thinking that it will improve feedback to the devs for upcoming changes, then you misunderstand what a Public Test Server is for. It is not for feedback. It is for identifying and quashing bugs. You can ask anyone who works in game development: by the time changes hit a testing server, it is far too late to make significant alterations to those changes. Things like job changes are decided on months and months before developers are ready to talk about it, never mind putting it up for any sort of hypothetical testing.


English language feedback—as far as making it to the developers in a concise and expeditious manner—is something that could be improved upon, but a Public Test Server is not the way go to about it.

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Originally Posted by Knoahl

Hey,

Following the recent upset with job changes I've seen, and from issues with balancing the past 2 expansions and ARR, do you think this game would benefit from a Public Test Server so players can try out changes and give feedback before they go live?

Maybe this would help communication with the devs. When we Beta tested ARR story cutscenes were omitted so no spoilers got out and a lot of content was limited, I think this could be done again to help improve the game over the long term maybe.

What are peoples opinions? Do you think this could help?

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Based on certain other games having quite an extensive player testing period and still launching with some really really really bad bits..... no, I don't think a public test is likely to help anything.

PTRs are probably not good over the long haul. While it allows players to test changes, it also allows Devs to be less thoughtful in their design and more prone to making changes based on outcry rather than keeping to the game aesthetics. Depending how much content also becomes available in PTR is an issue too. If it allowed for all content to be tested (including raids and savage), then you could see a lot of stuff getting not only spoiled, but testers having a clear advantage on content clears vs people who dont see it.

I think the game, broadly, operates fine without one. The 'outcry' about the healer changes I think is pretty overblown.

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Originally Posted by TitaniaZero

You know what would come of a Public Test realm...

"They aren't listening to our feedback at all" (See WoW)

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probably because wow devs do a terrible job of even showing feedback was heard.