Appropriate times to use Clemency?

I’ve been getting my PLD to 70 so I have a main HLR, DPS, and TNK. Variety. Anyway, tanking is my weak point and by tomorrow my tank should reach level 70. So I ran a dungeon today. In this dungeon, our healer was doing amazing, and I let him know. He then told me “If you think I’m doing so great, why the hell are you healing yourself? Don’t insult me.” I didn’t mean to insult him. I just wanted to make it easier. I can cast Clemency, then Holy Spirit then return to my tank rotation. So my question is, are there bad times to use Clemency? Am I really insulting other’s by using it? If so, I’m sorry!

There should be no reason to use clemency outside of soloing things and "I will literally die if i don't clemency right now!" moments, the latter being a quite rare occurrence, if you're out of tp in aoe just use holy spirit, gives you more sheltrons and makes the pack die quicker.

Personally I would like to see clemency baked into something so it is activly encouraged occasionally (even when doing well). Right now it is an utmost emergency tool (pretty fun when you get to lay the saving heals down though). Perhaps some mechanic that gives one free oGCD cast at quite infrequent intervals, just to pepper it in.

when you want to make the healers feel insecure
serious answer: never, or when soloing.

There's nothing wrong with using it after heavy AoE to help out the healers. Unless you're doing content where you actually need optimized tank DPS (which, you know, you're probably not, given that you're on the forums asking when to use one of your skills. Just saying), there's no reason not to try and find ways to utilize your kit.
Your job as the tank is to make the run as fast, smooth and comfortable as possible.

...oh, and if the healer complains at you for using Clemency? Screw 'em. As a PLD in level 70 dungeons, having a healer is a convenience, not a necessity.

Oh. Thank you everyone. I think I get what you all mean.

If I could mention an "appropriate" time to use Clemency, I'd say to insta-launch your Divine Veil. If you want to prepare for something but you're still high HP, so the heal dosen't heal you (which is normal) you can use Clemency to set your Divine Veil on the team.

That's the only reason I ever used it (or if the healers are all dead and we're trying to push the last 1% of a boss lmao)

You use it in dungeons because total eclipse is garbage.

But that won't be the case in Shadowbringers.

In order to understand when to use Clemency, you need to use your gut instincts.

1. Judge if the healer seems to be competent. Are they casting damage spells? This is a sign of confidence; that healing you is such a breeze that they can get away with not healing you. If healing you is that easy for them, trust them.
2. Have they, at any point, demonstrated keeping you alive under sustained pressure, like a huge pull with 20-30 mobs attacking you?
3. Have they not struggled to heal you? Haven't had to cast Cure 5 times just to get you to full health? If they have, that's a sign they may be undergeared or inexperienced, and may not be able to save you at some stage.

Only actually use Clemency if the healer has failed the above criteria, your health is imminently approaching 5% and a heal not being casted now will be your death.

This is all assuming you are thinking of using Clemency on yourself. If another party member is near 5% health and devastating mechanics are incoming, use it immediately or use Cover if mid-combo. What may aid this decision is again the demonstrated competence of the healer and whether any party members are already dead.

If you're doing it right, you won't use Clemency at all in most dungeon runs, but will encounter plenty of situations over time where it prevents a wipe and turns the tide back in everyone's favor.

I've personally used it a lot during wall-to-wall pulls of Drowned City of Skalla, Ala Mhigo because it's somewhat tightly synced and hard on some healers and The Burn because the last boss wipes a good amount of parties.

As a healer main that dabbles in tanking, the problems with Clemency are three-fold. First, any healer worth their salt will already be on it if you desperately need a heal, meaning one of you will overheal. Secondly, you're likely able to do more damage than them and they may even have a few oGCD heals ready so they don't even need to pause to heal, so it's often better to let them do it than stop healing. Lastly, it demonstrates a lack of trust in the healer, which is why it can be seen as insulting.

Things that can make a healer's life easier are using oGCD abilities to heal or mitigate. Using Second Wind or Bloodbath on DPS, popping Sheltron before a tankbuster, using reprisal before an unavoidable AoE, these are all welcome. It's when you spend a GCD of your own to heal that it can feel like you're trying to do their job.

That all said, feel free to talk to your healer. There are some slight areas where it can be useful, like when a DPS is targeted for an AoE, and if you warn the healer ahead of time that you'll handle it they'll be a lot more receptive to it.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

You use it in dungeons because total eclipse is garbage.

But that won't be the case in Shadowbringers.

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Total Eclipse isn't garbage.

Times I use clemency:

A. When the healer in a dungeon goes down, or maybe if a healer is undergeared like if I get a healer in shire gear in castrum abania or something like that.
B. When both healers are down in a raid or trial or just one healer but the healer that's up needs to hard cast raise to get the other up.
C. Sometimes on things like flare if I have to run out of range of the boss, I'll time one to hit me as soon as the damage goes out, if I don't think it's going to delay the requiscat part of my rotation.
D. Healers get hit with some sort of mechanic, like say they're not paying attention to ghosts on phantom train. Or if say I though t a dps was going to die before we could kill the choke collar in The Griffin's fight.

So basically, I don't use it very often. I see clemency as a sort of backup heal in group play. It has its uses, but assuming the healers are up and running you shouldn't ever need to use it. It's pretty niche, but there are times when I've had to use it and saved a run using it to keep myself or dps up when healers blow up.

I guess the short of it is: Are your healers active on the board? Don't use it. Are your healers dead or otherwise not able to heal? Use it. At least in pugs I imagine in a static you could probably ask in voice chat if they want you to toss out some clemencies or if they'll have it nailed, but in pugs I err on the side of caution.

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Originally Posted by Otorinth

Total Eclipse isn't garbage.

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Garbage may be a bit hyperbolic, but it is pretty weak. That said it's still better than dealing no damage and so unless I think the healer is struggling and I may die, I use it over clemency in dungeons.

I can't wait for SHB to have some real aoe for dungeons as a pld.

if your healers are day dreaming and you want to pop divine veil

Honestly only times I'd say clemency are useful is at the start of a pack as a quick aggro grab or if you are about to go down in progression.

If you let a dps die cause you didn't want to use clemency cause "mah deeps" then you are bad. Yes your healer is bad too, but that doesn't excuse you.

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Originally Posted by LeonTrifang

I’ve been getting my PLD to 70 so I have a main HLR, DPS, and TNK. Variety. Anyway, tanking is my weak point and by tomorrow my tank should reach level 70. So I ran a dungeon today. In this dungeon, our healer was doing amazing, and I let him know. He then told me “If you think I’m doing so great, why the hell are you healing yourself? Don’t insult me.” I didn’t mean to insult him. I just wanted to make it easier. I can cast Clemency, then Holy Spirit then return to my tank rotation. So my question is, are there bad times to use Clemency? Am I really insulting other’s by using it? If so, I’m sorry!

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- To apply the effect of Divine Veil, when you see that the heal does not come.

- When you see your HP very low then you have 15 mobs on my face and the heal sleeps.

- When the heal is stupidly dead in an AoE and I have to keep the dps alive to finish the boss.

- When you want to troll a heal that makes you a whole speech, to tell you he finds it insulting to his healer status. (True)

I only use Clemency if I am about to die( i.e less than 20% hp) or if someone in the party is about to die and the healer doesnt have the mana or if I dont trust the healer to heal them in time.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I only use Clemency if I am about to die( i.e less than 20% hp) or if someone in the party is about to die and the healer doesnt have the mana or if I dont trust the healer to heal them in time.

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Believe in my heal it will be difficult in roulette when you meet 75% of Noob.

There are more scenarios than just solo, if a healer died, why not help the other healer out some so they can raise sooner.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

- To apply the effect of Divine Veil, when you see that the heal does not come.

- When you see your HP very low then you have 15 mobs on my face and the heal sleeps.

- When the heal is stupidly dead in an AoE and I have to keep the dps alive to finish the boss.

- When you want to troll a heal that makes you a whole speech, to tell you he finds it insulting to his healer status. (True)

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Hmm, and in ShB they could all be isntant cast heals to boot every requiscat...

Clemency is only used for "Self-Preservation" mode. Meaning either one or both of your healers are dead and you need to solo heal the remainder of the bosses health or survive long enough for the healers to be revived. This happens waaaaay more often then people think though. Especially in Dungeons, Heaven on High, Eureka Hydatos etc. If you see someone die on your party list, immediately start looking at your support skills (Cover and Clemency in particular.)

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Originally Posted by LeonTrifang

I’ve been getting my PLD to 70 so I have a main HLR, DPS, and TNK. Variety. Anyway, tanking is my weak point and by tomorrow my tank should reach level 70. So I ran a dungeon today. In this dungeon, our healer was doing amazing, and I let him know. He then told me “If you think I’m doing so great, why the hell are you healing yourself? Don’t insult me.” I didn’t mean to insult him. I just wanted to make it easier. I can cast Clemency, then Holy Spirit then return to my tank rotation. So my question is, are there bad times to use Clemency? Am I really insulting other’s by using it? If so, I’m sorry!

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I usually use clemency to proc Divine Veil during phase changes. The only other real times I use it as if the Healer died and I'm trying to Keep Us Alive do either Kill the Boss or sustained while the healer is Reviving someone.

A buddy and I had a conversation about this, last weekend. Basically, she asked why it was okay for me, a DRK, to use soul eater to heal, but she can't use clemency to heal without someone getting on her case about it. She also noted raiding with WARs who use equilibrium, all the time, to heal, and no one gives them lip. I told her it's somewhat unfair, but the reason I can use soul eater is because it deals damage and helps the target die a little faster. The reason WARs can use equilibrium is because it's oGCD and doesn't impact their rotation, allowing them to heal while still dealing damage. A PLD's clemency triggers GCD, and it doesn't make the target die faster.

Though, to be honest, there was once, in a dungeon, I was berated by a MNK for using SE to heal instead of dropping grit and just dpsing.

Long story short, it's because dps. The more damage is dealt, the sooner the target dies, and the less overall damage is dealt to the party. I know there are moments when it seems like it's a good idea to use clemency, like when you're about to die and your healer is spamming broil 2 without a care in the world. But until your healer actually lets you die from something beyond your control, such as party-wide AoE or a tank buster, you should give them the benefit of the doubt. If they let you die because they weren't paying attention, go on and cast clemency whenever it suits your fancy. If the healer gives you lip, you can tell him/her to screw off because you don't feel like dying again.

I use it for Ultima, The High Seraph during the phase change just before Ultimate Illusion. Rarely is anyone in good health at that point, and the healers need their MP for what's coming while I don't. Aside from that, I only use it if the healer dies.

You can use clemency at dragon heads in shinryu extreme. The healers will thank you.

If clemency stopped you or someone else from dying then it is a DPS gain.

1) Progression. If you are still learning the encounter and how to best tackle it, you should be using Clemency often because your DPS doesn't matter when the boss isn't going to die.
2) If you're going to die, use it. Dying is a much greater DPS loss. This goes for anyone else. Saving them is more DPS and it promotes good PLD play as saving people is something your job allows you to do.
3) It's a very powerful skill that is very underrated. It's ok to use it if you feel like it would help. Don't be afraid to use the full kit of your job despite it not contributing to DPS immediately. Use your own judgement.

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Originally Posted by LeonTrifang

So I ran a dungeon today.
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I didn’t mean to insult him. I just wanted to make it easier.

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Dungeons don't need to be any easier to heal than they already are. The healer is probably waiting for your HP to drop so he or she can use an oGCD heal and that free heal goes to waste along with your own dps whenever you cast heals on yourself.

It's best to use when you can't hit enemies, for preventing a death or to trigger your AoE shield.

Never. Healers adjust.

Kidding, it's just that we don't know yet what the MP regen rates (passive and from skills) will be, if it's like StB you need every MP for your Requi phases, even more so that now refresh / manashift is gone.

Of course, if it's like O6S, and you're feeling like your healer is forgetting you a bit cause he is playing picasso, you pop one out, staying alive trumps a Holy spirit anytime.

If you're OTanking, it's better to avoid at all the dangerous low health situation for the MT, by a correct usage of Cover and Intervention, or even emergency vokes to take that TB from hell, rather than Clemency. Unless of course your healer is in a pinch and/or asks you to out of desperation.

use it whenever you want, if the healer gets upset that is on them. I always use clemency when i see fit, and never been yelled at by the healer. if i was i would probably just respond with a LOL.

If you use it and it upsets your healer, just ask them to grant you some clemency.

Clemency is also an excellent way to get snap aggro on mobs that have spawned far away or in different corners of the room. Note: This only works on mobs who spawn on the Enemy List as "aggro'd" (basically anything that spawns as "reinforcements" while you are already fighting.) Clemency is also great for getting snap aggro on mobs that haven't appeared on screen yet, but are already aggrod on the enemy list. (IE. Brute Justice Robots as they fall from the sky but are untargetable for like 5 seconds.)

Basically, any situation in which your Healer is getting initial aggro because a Regen was ticking on someone, you can use Clemency to snap aggro all the mobs to you instead. It's like using a Flash that hits the entire room no matter where you are. This is going to become even more useful now that Clemency will be affected by the new changes to Tank Stance enmity generation.

In pleb content? Whenever you want, doesn't matter anyways.

In savage or ultimate if PROGGING: Whenever needed, to see more of the fight and not be a dick.

In savage/Ultimate for a clear or farm? Never. It's a dps loss.

Clemency, in group content, should be used only when the party/raid is in a critical state. It can be used to assist the healers while they are raising people or multiple people. In these critical moments it has extreme value. Out side of that, burn the boss and avoid using it.