The Keeper's Hymn?

Whats this "Keeper's Hymn" I keep getting from every Starter Quest for Each Job? Has to be used for something.. in order for them to give it out durning Starter Job Quests.. :P.

Based on the description my guess is a Point Allotment reset

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Originally Posted by Ambuter

Based on the description my guess is a Point Allotment reset

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From the patch notes:

"[dev1321] Several new items have been added.
View the details.

* The Keeper’s Hymn, used to reset attribute point allotment, will be usable from patch 1.21a."

Reading comprehension and all that jazz..

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Originally Posted by Andvari

From the patch notes:

"[dev1321] Several new items have been added.
View the details.

* The Keeper’s Hymn, used to reset attribute point allotment, will be usable from patch 1.21a."

Reading comprehension and all that jazz..

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Sorry I even asked a simple question :/

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Sorry I even asked a simple question :/

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Keeper's Hymn OBVIOUSLY means Attribute Point Allocation Reset.

I'm jk. :P

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Whats this "Keeper's Hymn" I keep getting from every Starter Quest for Each Job? Has to be used for something.. in order for them to give it out durning Starter Job Quests.. :P.

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That's your item for doing a stats point reallocation.

How does one go about using the Keeper's Hymn? I have no idea how to reset my points at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Toraseishin

How does one go about using the Keeper's Hymn? I have no idea how to reset my points at the moment.

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You don't. The item's use isn't going to be implemented until 1.21a.

Ah cool, thats good to know.

Hey guys! I wanted to give you some information about The Keeper's Hymn so that you know a little bit more about them before making any drastic decisions. :P

Currently the only way to obtain The Keeper’s Hymn is through quests and we have no plans at the moment to increase the methods of obtaining them. In patch 1.21a, we will be making it possible to reset your attribute point allotment for classes by exchanging The Keeper’s Hymn to guild token exchange NPCs located at each guild. However, as mentioned above, the methods for obtaining these items are limited so please use them wisely.

I already threw mine away because i thought they were leftover story junk... ]= Rukkirii what am I going to do????

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Originally Posted by Mushy

I already threw mine away because i thought they were leftover story junk... ]= Rukkirii what am I going to do????

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I recognize you--you're the guy who would throw away his Beastmen's Seals, back when!

Bit of a stupid way to reset stats, kind of like a 1 time deal until you can actually get them again.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! I wanted to give you some information about The Keeper's Hymn so that you know a little bit more about them before making any drastic decisions. :P

Currently the only way to obtain The Keeper’s Hymn is through quests and we have no plans at the moment to increase the methods of obtaining them. In patch 1.21a, we will be making it possible to reset your attribute point allotment for classes by exchanging The Keeper’s Hymn to guild token exchange NPCs located at each guild. However, as mentioned above, the methods for obtaining these items are limited so please use them wisely.

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Please tell us there are plans to allow for the change of stats on a regular basis? Something like how you pay gold in WoW to reset talents? If there isn't a way to reset them when needed, what is the point of having the choice on where to spend them? It's too easy for new players to make a mistake, read outdated information, and set them improperly. And there are times when it might help to have the stats set one way over another (such as soloing as a CNJ, as opposed to healing).

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

In patch 1.21a, we will be making it possible to reset your attribute point allotment for classes by exchanging The Keeper’s Hymn to guild token exchange NPCs located at each guild. However, as mentioned above, the methods for obtaining these items are limited so please use them wisely.

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I don't feel we should be limited on how many time or how often we can reset are attribute points. Imposing a fee or penalty is understandable but we should be allowed do reset the points as many times as we want.

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Originally Posted by Mrfox0707

I don't feel we should be limited on how many time or how often we can reset are attribute points. Imposing a fee or penalty is understandable but we should be allowed do reset the points as many times as we want.

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I disagree. I think it's stupid to pay to respec every time you do something. You should put your points where you want them, and live happily ever after. If you make a mistake, then you get one of these Hymns for every job you unlock. If you need another, level something to 30 and solo the quest on another job to get one. Re-allotting points isn't something you should do every day. I like that the choice carries weight.

That said, I think it was a bad idea to make this a standard, tossable item. It should really have been a Key Item. ;/ That would have avoided this:

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Originally Posted by Mushy

I already threw mine away because i thought they were leftover story junk... ]= Rukkirii what am I going to do????

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You are going to read patchnotes, or stop assuming just because it has no obvious use, it's junk? >.> I hope you are happy with your point allotment. :< That really sucks, man. ; ;

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Originally Posted by Mychael

I disagree. I think it's stupid to pay to respec every time you do something. You should put your points where you want them, and live happily ever after. If you make a mistake, then you get one of these Hymns for every job you unlock. If you need another, level something to 30 and solo the quest on another job to get one. Re-allotting points isn't something you should do every day. I like that the choice carries weight.

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The devs have already changed the way stats work at least once. While I wasn't around when they functioned differently, I still keep finding the old, outdated information that, for instance, tells GLDs how block is affected by strength. The game isn't even very clear about everything that the stats do.

Also, leveling as a CNJ, it makes sense to put points into Int. I've still yet to find a clear answer on where they should be as a healer, but I think Mind and Vit are the right answers. However, who would think that Vit affects enhancing magic? My points right now are bad for a healer, but even if the Hymn was functional, I'd be loathe to actually use it. What if I get it wrong again, get bad advice, or the devs once again change these mechanics? What if I need to go solo something, or help out a friend, before my THM is 50?

There are really only two possible options for what will happen:

1. We are given a way to change stats more frequently, however they decide to work it (free, currency, on a cooldown, etc.)
2. The point allotments are entirely removed

I can guarantee you that a finite item like this will not work. I've played MMOs long enough to know how something like that pans out, and eventually people will give up and stop playing when they realize the countless hours they spent on a character were wasted, all because they didn't know how each job's stats work. Might as well say goodbye to the game, as there is no way the average gamer is going to give it the time of day with mechanics like that, and the current playerbase will also slowly begin to set sail for clearer waters.

I want the game to succeed, and as such, it needs to be generally user friendly, regardless of how difficult the content might be.

being limited in times to reset our attribute points better be a temporal messure...

I am generally not one for melodrama but I agree for the most part with the above sentiment. For a large number of roles, making informed decisions about where one ought to allocate ones points can be extremely difficult. Certain statics, such as the vitality > enhancing magic correlation mentioned earlier, do not grant logical bonuses and the frequency by which large scale, sweeping changes occur can transform just about all decisions into sheer guesswork. Restricting this process by granting us only a limited number of times to make changes alters what should a simple decision and unnecessarily draws it out pending the research of others.

Sure many people will argue that they prefer this to be a carefully considered decision, and to a certain extent this may be true. However, when a truly informed decision cannot be made without first consulting various sources and research outside of the game itself, and if frequent improper decisions can forever punish your advancement in a particular class, we begin to find ourselves a system that both restricts player experimentation and hinders those who are not aware that resources exist outside of the game world to aid their decisions.

Personally I have a few problems with the idea of stat point allocation itself. If the goal in implementing this system is to allow players to have a greater degree of freedom with regards to how they build their characters, I believe that restricting this player input to statistical points only is an extremely boring and, above all, antiquated design decision. Instead I would argue that the development team ought to pursue a point allocation system that revolves less around raising a set of numerical values that are by definition divorced from the actual game world, and instead on aspects of character development that are more relatable to the player.

For example: Perhaps instead of investing points into statistics players could use their points to buy ranks in class abilities, giving them the opportunity to have a much more direct effect on how they enhance their characters without getting bogged down into numbers. Such a system would be directly approachable to all players, be capable of providing a visible effect without overpowering the character, and, on the onset, would not imply that players ought to look up information dictating how they should build their character for best results.

If the goal of the allocation system is, as I stated above, to draw players to form am attachment to their characters by allowing them to make interesting and effectual decisions over how they advance, then the current system accomplishes neither of these things. It does not interest and it is difficult to see its effects. Ultimately a change will need to come down and I would love to hear that this is something being actively worked on for 2.0.

If you just do away with this option, neither side can complain.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys! I wanted to give you some information about The Keeper's Hymn so that you know a little bit more about them before making any drastic decisions. :P

Currently the only way to obtain The Keeper’s Hymn is through quests and we have no plans at the moment to increase the methods of obtaining them. In patch 1.21a, we will be making it possible to reset your attribute point allotment for classes by exchanging The Keeper’s Hymn to guild token exchange NPCs located at each guild. However, as mentioned above, the methods for obtaining these items are limited so please use them wisely.

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This is flat out a bad idea, SE.

Off the bat, the stat allotment system in general is very sketchy... it's more or less just an illusion of choice since in the end you are likely to be picking your job's 2 damage modifiers or top stats, anyway.

So what is the point of the system? I originally thought the point was that depending on your gear set up, you could go back and move points around. Say I had 23 str 22 dex, but with my current gear I have more str than I really need and wanted 1 more in dex, or to push some points into vit, etc. If I were able to reset my points at any given time (with increasing cost in gil if I were to do so very often in a short span) then I could easily adjust my character's points to fill in holes in my gear.

By limiting the times we can adjust our stats you have effectively killed any sort of choice in stat allotment and, truthfully, should just abolish it from the game and throw those 45 points into our class's base stats at 50.

Or, you can allow us an infinite amount of resets at a cost each time. Even if you want to give us some repeatable quest to obtain the Hymn item! I believe that could be fair and make people still think twice before throwing points around without an educated guess as to where they go. Was the previous idea your intention and the wording in your post just made it sound like the amount of items we could get was limited?

Please clarify for us if you could?

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Originally Posted by Andvari

From the patch notes:

"[dev1321] Several new items have been added.
View the details.

* The Keeper’s Hymn, used to reset attribute point allotment, will be usable from patch 1.21a."

Reading comprehension and all that jazz..

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this is what cash shop mmo's do, items that let you reset your allotments or stats. almost impossible drops in the worlds but you can buy them for real cash. guess maybe they adding in a little cash shop lore just in case things go wrong. lol. but on a good note glad to see we will be able to get items and change our allotments at some point.

also on side note i'm sure they will add ways to get more of these, nm's, in dungeons or whatever. i doubt the few we got are the only ones. guess they want us to farm them or keep them handy in case. my bet diff dungeons might need diff stats? that will be my guess at some point if this is how they added the changes of points.

when your low level you want diff stats usually then when your doing dungeons or at endgame though, so using these up can be pretty fast and easy if you have multiple classes leveled, but at moment who doesn't pl so doesn't really matter heh. lol ...this is how i screwed my allods toon, didn't realize it cost money just to change stats and i was stuck with what i had... and ..then ..i quit.

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Currently the only way to obtain The Keeper’s Hymn is through quests and we have no plans at the moment to increase the methods of obtaining them. In patch 1.21a, we will be making it possible to reset your attribute point allotment for classes by exchanging The Keeper’s Hymn to guild token exchange NPCs located at each guild. However, as mentioned above, the methods for obtaining these items are limited so please use them wisely.

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This basically screws over everyone that has done the quests already? Why do I always feel punished for playing the game when I'm supposed to?
Why can't we just make point allotment be an expensive gil service from an npc. Would get gil out of circulation and allow the freedom some players wish to have. Those who regret their decision will still have the option to eventually correct it.

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Originally Posted by Kio

This basically screws over everyone that has done the quests already? Why do I always feel punished for playing the game when I'm supposed to?

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I believe you are confused. If you did any of the job quests, you have the item already, the implemention of point allotment will be introduced in 1.21a. On that note, do you really feel punished everytime you play the game when you are supposed to? If so, you should stop playing or maybe you aren't really playing when you're "supposed" to.

That said, I agree the option for point allotment should be restricted.

I accidentally tossed all 7 of mine away =[

Not surprised or even mad.

The described method currently stated by SE is counter intuitive to even having stat allocation.

I support the motion to have a reexamination of how you reallocate stats.

I also support the suggestion of paying a fee to an NPC to reset stats.

I completely disagree with any method that is not finite to realocate stats. Why? Because I don't think that you SHOULD reallocate to begin with, I like it as a design choice that once you've put them in, you can't change them.
I am very sure they're giving us those Keeper's Hymn stones exactly BECAUSE they're fiddling a lot with the way attributes work, so until they're done they're giving us a chance to alter them, and then not anymore. At least that is what I am hoping for.

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Originally Posted by Skies

I completely disagree with any method that is not finite to realocate stats. Why? Because I don't think that you SHOULD reallocate to begin with, I like it as a design choice that once you've put them in, you can't change them.
I am very sure they're giving us those Keeper's Hymn stones exactly BECAUSE they're fiddling a lot with the way attributes work, so until they're done they're giving us a chance to alter them, and then not anymore. At least that is what I am hoping for.

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So if a new player doesn't know where to put their stats at level 10, they should be gimped for the entire life of the game? How does that make sense?

It makes sense by a new player being well-informed and there being clear information and, if he did not see what was given to him, it's his entire fault.
You're going to reply "But nobody knows how it works/it's a huge mess", theoretically when they are actually caring about new players (which is not now, they stated, but after 2.0) that information should be available. And now you're going to say "What if there's some odd non-obvious trick", well that's a thing for people who actually care, and if you do in fact care you are going to do research beforehand.

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Originally Posted by Skies

It makes sense by a new player being well-informed and there being clear information and, if he did not see what was given to him, it's his entire fault.
You're going to reply "But nobody knows how it works/it's a huge mess", theoretically when they are actually caring about new players (which is not now, they stated, but after 2.0) that information should be available. And now you're going to say "What if there's some odd non-obvious trick", well that's a thing for people who actually care, and if you do in fact care you are going to do research beforehand.

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There is no clear information now, and the problem is with now, not with 2.0, which has not happened yet.

A decent MMO will also not require one to do research before playing. I'm not sure if you're one of these super serious 24/7 players with nothing better to do, but most folks play games to have fun. You seem to think that this should be some kind of job. That's silly.

Its an untradable item whose help text even mentions rolling back previous physical bonuses.... that in itself should make someone think before they toss these. if that didn't even spark a little curiousity to ask around or look something up about what they're for.... ya. i'm sorry for the loss people have suffered by tossing them but i don't feel bad for those folks.

The opposite, I got at best 3 hours to play on weekdays, I hate looking for information and for me the fact that you can allocate points is far too much trouble and I don't given a friggen damn about them and would rather let them sit there eternally until one of my friends that cares tells me what to do with them.
Also, any system that is implemented now is part of what will be in 2.0, if they get us used to a system that will not be there in the future, everyone will cry

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Originally Posted by Skies

The opposite, I got at best 3 hours to play on weekdays, I hate looking for information and for me the fact that you can allocate points is far too much trouble and I don't given a friggen damn about them and would rather let them sit there eternally until one of my friends that cares tells me what to do with them.
Also, any system that is implemented now is part of what will be in 2.0, if they get us used to a system that will not be there in the future, everyone will cry

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Okay, so why not advocate to just have the damn things removed? Why have points when they're such a pain in the ass to deal with?

I think about the bigger picture. They're an interesting choice for customization if you care for them, I know I don't because i'm lazy, but i'm very sure most people do, so it should probably stay. I merely think that changing them freely greatly cheapens the entire system.

As always, I could be wrong, but this is merely an opinion

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Originally Posted by Skies

I think about the bigger picture. They're an interesting choice for customization if you care for them, I know I don't because i'm lazy, but i'm very sure most people do, so it should probably stay. I merely think that changing them freely greatly cheapens the entire system.

As always, I could be wrong, but this is merely an opinion

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Hmm. That's fine. I just seem to notice more discontent than anything. If we are going to have options, it would make more sense to have the ability to increase the strength of certain abilities directly, rather than stat points. It is pretty boring, even for one who understands how it works, and it seems like there is only one right way to do it per class. Even at the best of times, it isn't much of a choice.

were not chosing to change our classes here, it's just stats. they should be pretty easily changed at will. if i want to be more dps or more tankish or whatever. it's no diff then chosing one of 3 class tree's and then changing at will for a bit of gil. flexibility is where it is at. being locked on something just means people are unhappy and time to move on. i hated being a taru that did less dmg then most even if i was geared up the same just cause of a few stat difference. this is our be all be character not some toon of 12 others we can mess around with, and even then those games are flexible to stats/moves and tree's and being stuck is just something a cash shop would do just to get cash from people who screw up. no one would start over to fix stats, they would quit. and i dont' think SE needs more quitters.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

being limited in times to reset our attribute points better be a temporal messure...

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Damn right it better. What a stupid idea.

I don't think what's being done is a good system to devise for the future. Because MMO's are massive investments of time this is a lot different than being unable to change your spec in a game that takes 10 hours to complete. I urge the development team to reconsider their position on stat reallocation to make it easier for people to achieve.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I don't think what's being done is a good system to devise for the future. Because MMO's are massive investments of time this is a lot different than being unable to change your spec in a game that takes 10 hours to complete. I urge the development team to reconsider their position on stat reallocation to make it easier for people to achieve.

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It will in all likelihood become a crysta item. SE just hasnt gotten around to implementing a functioning Crysta shop, but better believe it will when 2.0 hits. I expect things like stat reallocation and costumes to be the primary money-makers. Stats aren't complicated in ffxiv though, so its hard to mess them up unless you just dont read patch notes.