All skills while level synced.

If I remember right Yoshida said in an old old interview that one of the reasons we couldn't have all our skills while we were level synced is because a person with all their skills would rip hate away from a tank that didn't have all their skills.

With the way Enmity is being changed, and now that tanks get their tank stance at lvl 10, I think all tanks get that at lvl 10 now, would it be possible for us to be able to have all our skills while we are level synced?

Though the enmity issue is (should be) resolved with ShB, the syncked vs unsyncked DPS balance is not.

Someone with their full action set available needs to have their damage scaled down so that they don't hit so hard that things melt while an unsyncked DD is unable to perform more than a few basic actions. Then once this is implemented, it leaves a new problem in that syncked people will need to be as good as they should be for their real level, even when they're syncked down. If they are not, then they will do less damage than unsyncked people.

Giving everyone all their unlocked actions even when syncked might make things more interesting for the higher level people syncking down, but it would overall make dungeons slower, as many people are not as good as they should be for their real level. The way things are now, a decent run time only requires people to be as good as they should be for the dungeon's level.

I waffle back and forth on this issue.

On one hand, yeah, it would be nice to always have all of our abilities available.
On the other hand, if they didn't nerf anything, a synced max-level character would absolutely destroy stuff in low-level content.

So why not nerf the damage a bit (or other more-complex solutions) when you're synced? That's a surprisingly tough balancing act. Nerf the damage too much, and people will complain that a level 17ARC does more damage than their max-level BRD. Don't nerf the damage enough, and people may complain that max-level characters are too OP when synced. Nerf the damage juuuuust right, and people will still complain that they have to actually do their full proper rotation, just to keep their damage on par with a lowbie with 5 buttons to push.

I would definitely like to see them figure out some sort of solution that lets us use all our skills while synced, but I do not envy their options. People will complain, no matter what. To be completely honest, I don't expect them to ever implement this.

It would not hurt anyone to let us use all skills in low level duties.

Will it hurt balance in these lower lvl duties? Of course it will, but who cares really, at least it would be more fun to play and new players will have shorter queues with more people playing leveling roulette.

Maybe they can adjust the damage of skills that aren't in that level bracket to hit less?... But anyway, who cares, the difference isn't even going to be that big.

I think it's a good tradeoff, because more people would be willing to level using synched dungeons or even do them at max level.

I think its fine, just the reduce the potencies.

I constantly see the argument that "There will be a disparraging difference between DPS's!". Main Scenario and Alliance Roulette fresh 50's already do considerably less than someone with max stats and they don't get kicked or recieve any grief. I don't see how this is any different.

Moving onto their third expansion with a level cap of 80, its inevitable that they make the original dungeons faster and less painful to sync through.

I'd like to give an example on why keeping all of your skills while level synced would be beneficial.
I have been primarily leveling WHM through roulettes, and in my time leveling it during Stormblood I can count on one hand the number of times the roulette has put me through dungeons that are actually relevant to my current level, which means I have had little opportunity to try out and learn what my new level 60+ skills do.
So I bet you can imagine my surprise after I queued up for a leveling roulette expecting yet another ARR dungeon and was put into Bardam's Mettle instead. Of course the one time I want to get one of the early ARR dungeons for the Moogle Tomestones I'm put into a level-relevant dungeon that I never get in literally any other instance but I digress. Granted the party was able to get through the dungeon without too many casualties, it was still a bit stressful because I had to teach myself like 15 levels' worth of skills in such a short amount of time and even then I wasn't sure if I was doing things correctly.
Yes, I could have spammed level-relevant dungeons and gradually learn things that way, but WHM isn't really a class I actively play. My point is it would be nice to have everything available to me so I'm not stuck using all the low-level spells when I'm thrown into Copperhell for the 18th time and never really being able to play with the newer ones.

i've had this argument with a friend numerous times.. and every time we come to an agreement that no.. it would not solve the issue.. we've played other games that allow for this.. guild wars 2 has an interesting thing designed for it.. SWTOR has something similar in that ppl are boosted to max lvl.. unfortunately... even in both.. more often then not you aren't actually that lvl? you don't have the right stat gear? you don't have all of your skills? you hamper our ability to play kick.. how often would that actually happen? Who knows.. but with the amount of stories I see here on the forums about ppl getting kicked for no reasons there are far more who don't want to talk about it.. Does both me and my friend want all the skills to be accessible? yes. we do.. But, we can't have nice things, why? Cause of the i am so much more important then you ppl out there.. i mean look at the fiasco that is main Scen.. can't skip cutscenes in there anymore because of the rush rush rush ppl.. oh someone is watching cut scene kick them they aren't contributing... want more examples of why we can't have nice things?

They have the capability to item level sync, instead of level sync. The issue is that when they do this, potencies of actions are not synced down.

Let's use Sastasha as an example. A PLD's actions do, on average, 200 potency damage.

If they could use Holy Spirit, they would have phases of doing 380 potency damage, which can be combined with Requiescat to make that even worse.

They would have to develop a way to sync down the potencies, such as by a percentage that is the difference between dungeon's level and the action's level.

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Originally Posted by Destati

Of course the one time I want to get one of the early ARR dungeons for the Moogle Tomestones I'm put into a level-relevant dungeon that I never get in literally any other instance but I digress.

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Roulettes don't reward moogle tomes anyway. You're only rewarded for exactly the instances with the icon.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

It would not hurt anyone to let us use all skills in low level duties.

Will it hurt balance in these lower lvl duties? Of course it will, but who cares really, at least it would be more fun to play and new players will have shorter queues with more people playing leveling roulette.

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Yeah, who cares about these new players if they can't do anything because everything is already dead in the blink of an eye.
New player experience is definitly not something to care about. I mean, making it even worse than it already is surely isn't a concern anyone should have.
I'm pretty sure they'll enjoy the ride! And as long as I get my rewards faster, that's really all that matters.

/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Yeah, who cares about these new players if they can't do anything because everything is already dead in the blink of an eye.
New player experience is definitly not something to care about. I mean, making it even worse than it already is surely isn't a concern anyone should have.
I'm pretty sure they'll enjoy the ride! And as long as I get my rewards faster, that's really all that matters.

/sarcasm

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How will it make it worse to them?
If anything it will work on their imagination to see max lvl someone using all these fancy spells and how fun it looks, there will be a ton of newbies who will get excited to lvl up and try the new skills out in dungeons at least it will give them a goal to follow up, but they will not be able to unless they will hit 70-80 lvl in which they could play roulettes in duties on that lvl. Right now there is nothing they could see how the jobs are working at max lvl, and they are just dropping the game since they dont see the point of lvling up. There are too many people dropping the game before they hit certain lvl to get enjoyment from, stretching out their journey from 70 lvl to 80 lvls and force them to wait longer for their full kit of skills is not good thing at all. There is a reason why new jobs are starting at lvl 50 and why GNB and DNC will start at lvl 60.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

How will it make it worse to them?
If anything it will work on their imagination to see max lvl someone using all these fancy spells and how fun it looks, there will be a ton of newbies who will get excited to lvl up and try the new skills out in dungeons at least it will give them a goal to follow up, but they will not be able to unless they will hit 70-80 lvl in which they could play roulettes in duties on that lvl. Right now there is nothing they could see how the jobs are working at max lvl, and they are just dropping the game since they dont see the point of lvling up. There are too many people dropping the game before they hit certain lvl to get enjoyment from, stretching out their journey from 70 lvl to 80 lvls and force them to wait longer for their full kit of skills is not good thing at all. There is a reason why new jobs are starting at lvl 50 and why GNB and DNC will start at lvl 60.

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This is a really good point you make. I dont actually get that it would be super op minus a few skills, I thought BLU was super underpowered despite only have a few skills youd lose being synced, but at 50 it seemed ok. potencies are potencies, and with reduced stats and no traits like mend and maim 4 5 6 7 8 etc, i dont really think itd be all that bad, even so just have the pots lowered for the high end skills

I would love to have all gained abilities sync down. I truly believe it should be this way.
Please do it SE!

:)

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Roulettes don't reward moogle tomes anyway. You're only rewarded for exactly the instances with the icon.

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I think they mean if let's say you get Copperbell Mines during Leveling Roulette then you will get a Mog Tomestone at the end for completion. The roulette itself doesn't give the reward, but getting the specific duty through it will.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I think they mean if let's say you get Copperbell Mines during Leveling Roulette then you will get a Mog Tomestone at the end for completion. The roulette itself doesn't give the reward, but getting the specific duty through it will.

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Last I read here, someone managed to get a specified instance through roulette, and was not rewarded any moogle tomestones. You are rewarded only for queuing exactly for the listed duties.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

If I remember right Yoshida said in an old old interview that one of the reasons we couldn't have all our skills while we were level synced is because a person with all their skills would rip hate away from a tank that didn't have all their skills.

With the way Enmity is being changed, and now that tanks get their tank stance at lvl 10, I think all tanks get that at lvl 10 now, would it be possible for us to be able to have all our skills while we are level synced?

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Read the New Game Plus Feature coming with Shadow Bringers

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Last I read here, someone managed to get a specified instance through roulette, and was not rewarded any moogle tomestones. You are rewarded only for queuing exactly for the listed duties.

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Well I just got Copperbell through the Mentor Roulette so I can confirm you do get the tomestone. Also getting any Crystal Tower duty through Alliance Roulette nets you the reward, so somebody is lying.

I'd settle for partial. I would just be happy if they would let me have 1-2-3 combos in dungeons below level 45-ish.

what we need is a real level/item level sync so you can't beat old content with autoattacks anymore and new players can actually enjoy more than 5% of the content.

yeah, there was a thread that talk about this long time ago. it still baffled me why they cant do it, if anything it would promote their game even more. some of the newcomer just rush through things because story is boring, gameplay is brain dead, everything is boring pre50 yadayada. showing them all the available skills should motivate them.

on funny side, i would probably crying and laughing at the same time seeing my Fire 4/Foul ability explode in glorious way while doing a measly hundred damage lol

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Originally Posted by gumas

yeah, there was a thread that talk about this long time ago. it still baffled me why they cant do it, if anything it would promote their game even more. some of the newcomer just rush through things because story is boring, gameplay is brain dead, everything is boring pre50 yadayada. showing them all the available skills should motivate them.

on funny side, i would probably crying and laughing at the same time seeing my Fire 4/Foul ability explode in glorious way while doing a measly hundred damage lol

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You wont be the only one lol glad someone else see it the same way as me

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Roulettes don't reward moogle tomes anyway. You're only rewarded for exactly the instances with the icon.

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They do if you get the marked instances in the roulette. And they happen to be the ones I'm stuck with the most.

No. If you want your "full" rotation, do the high level content (or go unsynced).

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It would not hurt anyone to let us use all skills in low level duties.

Will it hurt balance in these lower lvl duties? Of course it will, but who cares really,

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That's quite possibly the quickest backpedaling I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by gumas

yeah, there was a thread that talk about this long time ago. it still baffled me why they cant do it, if anything it would promote their game even more. some of the newcomer just rush through things because story is boring, gameplay is brain dead, everything is boring pre50 yadayada. showing them all the available skills should motivate them.

on funny side, i would probably crying and laughing at the same time seeing my Fire 4/Foul ability explode in glorious way while doing a measly hundred damage lol

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While I can respect the fact that you feel that way about the story. I have someone in my FC who just remade a character from scratch so he could go back and enjoy every aspect of it because the person who brought him into the game had tried to rush him through story and he didn't get a good feel for it. For some people. The story is the draw. Everything else is just icing. Yes, this is an mmo but it is also a final fantasy game. Final Fantasy has always been known for an exceptional story and 14 is no different in that regard.

As for the topic at hand. Would it be nice to have all of our skills when we sync down? Yes, absolutely. However this would be a logistical nightmare on a programming side of things. It's easy for us as players to sit here and say oh this should be so easy to do, but the reality of it is that, coding, programming, debugging, and server load concerns all factor into this at a minimum, it is a massive amount of effort, time, and money, as well as personnel resources to implement a system like this.

As a final note, someone mentioned new game +, and ultimately this is a system that could allow a lot of us to go back and help newer players at our current power level, however we still have very little information on new game + it's something i keep waiting for them to address with each passing live letter. Hopefully at e3 we will hear more about it now that the trust system has been sufficiently explained.

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While I can respect the fact that you feel that way about the story

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wut? you mean the story is boring? you got it wrong, i actually love the story, as someone who come from anime and mostly story oriented game (jrpg, vn, etc) the story is the main reason why i play this game. i said the story is boring is because that what most people said when they ask about FF14... "game is good, friendly, but the story is boring until you reach HW" is what the answer i got everytime i see someone asking hows FF14.

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Originally Posted by gumas

wut? you mean the story is boring? you got it wrong, i actually love the story, as someone who come from anime and mostly story oriented game (jrpg, vn, etc) the story is the main reason why i play this game. i said the story is boring is because that what most people said when they ask about FF14... "game is good, friendly, but the story is boring until you reach HW" is what the answer i got everytime i see someone asking hows FF14.

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ahhh well my bad for the misunderstanding. I apologize.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

How will it make it worse to them?
If anything it will work on their imagination to see max lvl someone using all these fancy spells and how fun it looks, there will be a ton of newbies who will get excited to lvl up and try the new skills out in dungeons at least it will give them a goal to follow up, but they will not be able to unless they will hit 70-80 lvl in which they could play roulettes in duties on that lvl. Right now there is nothing they could see how the jobs are working at max lvl, and they are just dropping the game since they dont see the point of lvling up. There are too many people dropping the game before they hit certain lvl to get enjoyment from, stretching out their journey from 70 lvl to 80 lvls and force them to wait longer for their full kit of skills is not good thing at all. There is a reason why new jobs are starting at lvl 50 and why GNB and DNC will start at lvl 60.

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It's simple: most people don't think that getting carried is fun. Seeing fancy animations you don't have access to yet won't change that.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

It's simple: most people don't think that getting carried is fun. Seeing fancy animations you don't have access to yet won't change that.

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I dont think newbies would care for however they did the duty.
Going through a lvl 1-40 dungeons is the definition of bore not something you would enjoy, unless they will let us use everything we have.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No. If you want your "full" rotation, do the high level content (or go unsynced).

That's quite possibly the quickest backpedaling I've ever seen.

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Game is there to give you fun, not for being "balanced" for the sake of just being "balanced", its just old content PVE who cares?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I dont think newbies would care for however they did the duty.
Going through a lvl 1-40 dungeons is the definition of bore not something you would enjoy, unless they will let us use everything we have.

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The official forums have a tendency of completly blowing this out of proportion. Even when new players actually come and say for themselves that they didn't think it was that bad, the forums will go "NO! You are wrong! I'm telling you that you are bored and it's the worst and you want to be done with it as soon as possible!"

Whatever the case, I hope you understand that getting carried only adds to the "boredom" you are describing, as you drastically reduce the amount of participation from that new player. Speeding them through the content only devaluates it. It doesn't make it better in any way. This is how you lose players.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Game is there to give you fun, not for being "balanced" for the sake of just being "balanced", its just old content PVE who cares?

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Again, new players care. They are experiencing this for the first time, and you want to reap them from that first experience because you don't deem it interesting and you want yours rewards quicker.

There are some options in the middle. Maybe for Dungeons below Level 50, we could keep our skills up to level 50, but not all of our skills. That way we still get 1-2-3 combos, a couple of interesting mechanics, and a more "full" class, but we wouldn't be as overpowered compared to the lower level characters. That said, while it would make sub-50 dungeons far more enjoyable, this would be a very large effort from a coding perspective.

If I were a new player and saw a level 70 doing their full rotation while I am stuck with my two combo I would not only feel bored but useless since I would feel as if I am holding the group back. That is never a great feeling when it comes to gaming. Just my two vents.

Maybe when you are level synced any skill that you're not supposed to have is set to a max of potency of 100? Granted i'm not sure what potency actually means for an abilities damage or even how damage is calculated in FFXIV. RDMs still spam Scatter at lvl 70 for AoE just as they do when they are level synced and the potency is the same while the damage is massively lower. Wouldn't that be the same for say Verflare and Verholy? Wouldn't their damage still be massively lower and appropriate for the level you're at even with the same potency do to how things are calculated on the back end? But as I said I'm not really sure how potency is factored into the damage calculations and those calculations could change per level range so... just cap every things potency at 100 while level synced lol.

EQ2 has it so you have all skills while mentoring (lowering your level to another party member's) so it can be done. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

It would not hurt anyone to let us use all skills in low level duties.

Will it hurt balance in these lower lvl duties? Of course it will, but who cares really, at least it would be more fun to play and new players will have shorter queues with more people playing leveling roulette.

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I wold care, for one. I would prefer we not screw up low level stuff.

I would not want this because I like not to have too many buttons to press sometimes. If I want to do my full rotation, I can do it at the appropriate levels.

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Maybe when you are level synced any skill that you're not supposed to have is set to a max of potency of 100?

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Then your "level 70" rotation would actually be weaker than whatever you're supposed to use at level 15 or whatever, and therefore you'd be actively holding your party back if you insisted on using it anyway. Therefore, why even have it available at that point?

Things are fine the way they are. Again, you want your high level toys, run high level duties or go unsynced.