SCH got gutted good

This is mostly a post for the devs how don't understand SCH, as this is the second time SCH is getting hit hard.
My complaint is mostly with them removing useful spells like bane and shadowflare, and in return we get a MELEE move, why is a healer getting a melee move it makes very little sense. As a healer it helped that I had dots to use so I can dps a little and foces on my healing. but there removing 3 dots, ( I'm counting bane as it spreads my dots for good dps). Also the new pet system seems unnecessary all it looks like it does is make it harder to heal, as the pet was on auto and now it is not.
There are two fixes to this:
one - do not remove bane and shadowflare
two - make the Art of War spell a range aoe dot
I am willing to try the new pet system but I am unhappy about it.
Lastly the removing of energy drain is going to hit hard as it was a Sch way to get mana back.
P.S aetherflow only in combat is going to suck, but if they fix the above I can live with it.

I can understand why they're removing bane as well as Aero 3 - It's because healers are very strong in AoE scenarios currently, as they each have strong potency aoe spells with no setup required, compared to say BLM which has to setup umbral ice and suffer the extortionate cast times of Flare or Fire 2.
I don't understand your issues with Art of War, because it's functionally idential to the current SCH AoE spell Miasma 2, potentially even better because spaming Miasma 2 meant you were clipping the DoT and getting much less potency.
We've only lost 1 dot, Miasma, because Bane doesn't count and Miasma 2 was either a spammable AoE, or a weaving tool that has been replaced by 200pot Ruin 2.
A good SCH never had their pet on auto anyways, since Eos just spammed her abilities with no regard as to whether they were required. Embrace is still going to be automatic though, and we've lost our way to control that.
Lucid Dreaming is on a 60s cooldown now, so mana isn't going to be as bad as you think.

To summarise. SCH is fine, if not even stronger than before. It will still be the most desired healer in 8-man content, and maybe even 4-man content now.

Art of War is basically the same as current Miasma II, same range, point-blank AoE. More upfront potency, less total potency, and it's still instand cast, I don't really see the issue this time. You can't even complain you can't use Miasma II to weave oGCD anymore, since Ruin II got buffed to the same total potency (200).

Lots of QoL changes were made on the other hand:
- Adlo crit is fixed. Still super strong on single target, a tad weaker once deployed. But, we can actually control the crit to deploy it, which makes it a pretty strong AoE shield.
- We can deploy Adlo from ourselves now, no need to cast it on someone else (unless it's planned, and the offtank has Minne or something). Easier time to deploy it to everyone.
- Sacred Soil, which has quite large radius, now gives a very decent regen. Just like AST's bubble, but doesn't require to stand still, and is on a 30s cooldown.
- Ruin II got buffed to be usable again for weaving.
- Fairie finally comes back on her own once Dissipation is over.

Eos will still continue being a healbot spamming Embrace, she'll just be in "Obey" mode by default, which is a good thing. Her abilities shouldn't be wasted by the AI.

Really, my only concern is the loss of Energy Drain, since it was a source of DPS and mana, and mostly made Aetherflow into a game of "how should I use my charges?". So if the healing isn't required, the charges are kinda wasted.

This is nowhere near 4.0 SCH imo, there's still a lot of good changes and a couple of concerning ones, but nothing that "breaks" SCH. It will just be more boring to play while solo.

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Originally Posted by Megguido

Eos will still continue being a healbot spamming Embrace, she'll just be in "Obey" mode by default, which is a good thing. Her abilities shouldn't be wasted by the AI.

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The fairy doesn't even look like a pet anymore. She can't be placed and she just follows the SCH. Her abilities look to be SCH abilities now. She still looks to use her GCD to casts embrace on her own, though it can't be controlled who she uses it on anymore. She's more like an aura than a pet.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

The fairy doesn't even look like a pet anymore. She can't be played and she just follows the SCH. Her abilities look to be SCH abilities now. She still looks to use her GCD to casts embrace on her own, though it can't be controlled who she uses it on anymore. She's more like an aura than a pet.

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Eos' Embrace AI is pretty good actually. She's going to heal anyone under 80% HP, focusing on the lowest % HP. Forcing her to heal one player in particular is usually a bad idea (through macros mostly, since it fucks up her GCD, which is different from ours). From what I saw, we'll still be able to place her around, so it shouldn't change that much from the current thing. The most concerning change is if her abilities needs to be weaved by us. Currently, we can just order her to use e.g. Whispering Dawn without cancelling our cast, but it looks like we'll have to stop to command her (akin to SMN's Enkindle).

The only time controlling Eos' Embrace is a good idea imo, is to freely activate a PLD's Divine Veil without using a healing GCD (since it can't be proc'd off Lustrate or any other oGCD heal).

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Originally Posted by Megguido

Eos' Embrace AI is pretty good actually. She's going to heal anyone under 80% HP, focusing on the lowest % HP. Forcing her to heal one player in particular is usually a bad idea (through macros mostly, since it fucks up her GCD, which is different from ours). From what I saw, we'll still be able to place her around, so it shouldn't change that much from the current thing. The most concerning change is if her abilities needs to be weaved by us. Currently, we can just order her to use e.g. Whispering Dawn without cancelling our cast, but it looks like we'll have to stop to command her (akin to SMN's Enkindle).

The only time controlling Eos' Embrace is a good idea imo, is to freely activate a PLD's Divine Veil without using a healing GCD (since it can't be proc'd off Lustrate or any other oGCD heal).

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Ok you're probably right about pet placement. A video I saw had the pet management bar hidden so I thought it was gone. Looking at Mr Happy's video, he has it shown.

I guess the thing I'm most unhappy with is that I hate dumbing down of classes. It was already a problem with SAM and RDM but it seems they are going in that direction for everyone. They don't trust Scholars to keep up with their dps skills so they just take them out... Really going for the lowest common denominator here.

Misleading title. SCH seems to be a very strong class overall. It's just a shame that they had to simplify the DPS so much. I don't want Energy Drain, I want Heavensward's Shadowflare back. That would make SCH great because it gives you something to look out for every 30 seconds. The idea that your Aetherflow stacks are now used on healing spells such as Excog, Indom, Lustrate and Soil makes SCH an incredibly strong healer as it also syngergizes with Fey Union. The only thing that needs to happen is make SCH's DPS kit more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

Misleading title. SCH seems to be a very strong class overall. It's just a shame that they had to simplify the DPS so much. I don't want Energy Drain, I want Heavensward's Shadowflare back. That would make SCH great because it gives you something to look out for every 30 seconds. The idea that your Aetherflow stacks are now used on healing spells such as Excog, Indom, Lustrate and Soil makes SCH an incredibly strong healer as it also syngergizes with Fey Union. The only thing that needs to happen is make SCH's DPS kit more interesting.

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No. without ED we can only manage our ressource by overhealing, which is a terrible idea. we need a non-healing oGCD that use the aetherflow

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Originally Posted by Yomiko_Nonaka

No. without ED we can only manage our ressource by overhealing, which is a terrible idea. we need a non-healing oGCD that use the aetherflow

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What a bunch of balony. You put an Excog up, you put a dome up for tanks or plan it for an aoe buster and you Lustrate once or Indom depending on the circumstances. You can vary these around. There is absolutely zero reason that spending three stacks on healing results in overheal. At all. I very much doubt that overheal will be that big of a deal. I still maintain we need Shadowflare more than we do ED. Remember as well, having all these healing ogcds available opens up more room for your co healer to DPS as well.

Great. so we basically use all our ressource in healing. nice.

Like this, our co-healer will end up with having nothing up to do expect doing 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1...

We need ED. Even people who do ultimate use a lot of their aetherflow in ED.

And why would you use ED when opening up en extra GCD for either AST or WHM would end up in an overall potency gain for the whole group? ED is not needed anymore with our current healing kit. It's suboptimal to ED now because you using ED and potentially forcing your co healer into a GCD heal is an overall DPS loss. It may even be that SCH becomes a solo healer in savage the way it stands. Anyway, ED is completely redundant and wouln't add anything optimisation wise. The only argument you can make for ED is it giving you back mana. But since Lucid Dream is on 1 min CD now instead of 2, I doubt mana will really be an issue at all.

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Originally Posted by Megguido

Art of War is basically the same as current Miasma II, same range, point-blank AoE. More upfront potency, less total potency, and it's still instand cast, I don't really see the issue this time. You can't even complain you can't use Miasma II to weave oGCD anymore, since Ruin II got buffed to the same total potency (200).

Lots of QoL changes were made on the other hand:
- Adlo crit is fixed. Still super strong on single target, a tad weaker once deployed. But, we can actually control the crit to deploy it, which makes it a pretty strong AoE shield.
- We can deploy Adlo from ourselves now, no need to cast it on someone else (unless it's planned, and the offtank has Minne or something). Easier time to deploy it to everyone.
- Sacred Soil, which has quite large radius, now gives a very decent regen. Just like AST's bubble, but doesn't require to stand still, and is on a 30s cooldown.
- Ruin II got buffed to be usable again for weaving.
- Fairie finally comes back on her own once Dissipation is over.

Eos will still continue being a healbot spamming Embrace, she'll just be in "Obey" mode by default, which is a good thing. Her abilities shouldn't be wasted by the AI.

Really, my only concern is the loss of Energy Drain, since it was a source of DPS and mana, and mostly made Aetherflow into a game of "how should I use my charges?". So if the healing isn't required, the charges are kinda wasted.

This is nowhere near 4.0 SCH imo, there's still a lot of good changes and a couple of concerning ones, but nothing that "breaks" SCH. It will just be more boring to play while solo.

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Ruin II is still the same, only good for double weaving. Don’t forget broil is higher potency now so we will be doing a lot of clipping. The fact we have lost oat of our ogcds as well does not help as there will be way fewer opportunities to double weave. Just go out and play any fight restricting yourself to your 5.0 skill set and you’ll see how often you clip and sit on bio with no weaving at all. That’s even while weaving fairy commands, sadly.

Also in terms of min/maxing manual embrace was great and incredibly useful to heal specific people. With incoming aoe damage there’s no point healing the offtank at 65% when your bard at 80% is going to die.
With that said at least it now gives us something to do with our stacks so it’s somewhat consistent. Also embrace is the least of our worries atm.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

And why would you use ED when opening up en extra GCD for either AST or WHM would end up in an overall potency gain for the whole group? ED is not needed anymore with our current healing kit. It's suboptimal to ED now because you using ED and potentially forcing your co healer into a GCD heal is an overall DPS loss. It may even be that SCH becomes a solo healer in savage the way it stands. Anyway, ED is completely redundant and wouln't add anything optimisation wise. The only argument you can make for ED is it giving you back mana. But since Lucid Dream is on 1 min CD now instead of 2, I doubt mana will really be an issue at all.

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who talk about using a GCD ? there is plenty of OCGD healing who can be used for that. And even so, it will still be more fun than having one of the healer who keep doing the same stupid one dot lot of nuke over and over again.

and i'm not even talking about the lost of optimisation we're gonna loose without a non-healing oGCD. especially with the buff of dissipation.

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Originally Posted by Yomiko_Nonaka

who talk about using a GCD ? there is plenty of OCGD healing who can be used for that. And even so, it will still be more fun than having one of the healer who keep doing the same stupid one dot lot of nuke over and over again.

and i'm not even talking about the lost of optimisation we're gonna loose without a non-healing oGCD. especially with the buff of dissipation.

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You can alternate with your co healer obviously, but it still doesn't make sense to use ED instead of your healing abilities as they grant you 10 gauge. With the nerf to Embrace to 150, it's paramount that we use Fey Union as often as possible, which again will free up more healer GCDS. The way I see it, having Energy Drain back would be suboptimal with the way our Fairy gauge works now. Which is why I am more a fan of bringing back Heavensward's Shadow Flare. They have designed to make SCH a healing machine, dishing out OGCD healing to gain gauge to also quickly then go into Fey Union to make up for our weakened Embrace. ED isn't going to change any of that.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

And why would you use ED when opening up en extra GCD for either AST or WHM would end up in an overall potency gain for the whole group? ED is not needed anymore with our current healing kit. It's suboptimal to ED now because you using ED and potentially forcing your co healer into a GCD heal is an overall DPS loss. It may even be that SCH becomes a solo healer in savage the way it stands. Anyway, ED is completely redundant and wouln't add anything optimisation wise. The only argument you can make for ED is it giving you back mana. But since Lucid Dream is on 1 min CD now instead of 2, I doubt mana will really be an issue at all.

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This is a moot argument because you’re basically saying that if you don’t play your class well (aka optimize with your co healer which is the basics) you don’t need ED.

Even in ultimate levels of healing you would not manage to use all your stacks up before the AF timer comes back on, I’ve demonstrated that already on what is one of the most healing intensive sections of uwu where yo would need to overheal lustrate in order to use your stacks in time.

Needless to say this only gets worse in other sections of even ultimate, let alone savage content.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

What a bunch of balony. You put an Excog up, you put a dome up for tanks or plan it for an aoe buster and you Lustrate once or Indom depending on the circumstances. You can vary these around. There is absolutely zero reason that spending three stacks on healing results in overheal. At all. I very much doubt that overheal will be that big of a deal. I still maintain we need Shadowflare more than we do ED. Remember as well, having all these healing ogcds available opens up more room for your co healer to DPS as well.

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Exactly. The removal of ED, while a nerf for damage and mp sustain, is a stealth buff to sacred soil as it becomes a more viable stack spender. The additional healing overtime its gaining in SHB is only icing on the cake. Using Sacred Soil more means you're mitigating more damage, which is less damage you have to heal.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

This is a moot argument because you’re basically saying that if you don’t play your class well (aka optimize with your co healer which is the basics) you don’t need ED.

Even in ultimate levels of healing you would not manage to use all your stacks up before the AF timer comes back on, I’ve demonstrated that already on what is one of the most healing intensive sections of uwu where yo would need to overheal lustrate in order to use your stacks in time.

Needless to say this only gets worse in other sections of even ultimate, let alone savage content.

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Read the last post. Due to the way our healing kit is designed, ED is wasted. You want to spend your three stacks, at least one on Excog each time, at least one on Soil each time due to the 10 percent shielding and Regen is provided for tanks or aoes. Then you can use a Lustrate, Indom or even another Soil on the 1 min CD. What we do in current ultimates is a bad argument as now we more than likely won't need the MP and due the nerfs to Embrace, we actually want to use our healing kit to gain 10 gauge instead of using Energy Drain twice out of our three stacks.