I main RDM on 3 different DCs. I'm excited about the few changes there were giving to RDM but 1 change doesnt really sit well with me & if I had the power to change it, I would.
Right now, Jolt & Impact have a 1.96s cast time & verThunder/Aero have a 4.91s cast. So when hit Jolt/Impact you get the duel cast proc & then you hit ver/Thunder/Aero & verFire/Stone respectfully.
In 5.0, Scatter (aoe skill) will become Impact (aoe) with a 4.89s cast time & the aoe verThunder/Aero have a 1.95s cast time. So in your aoe rotation you would hit (aoe) verThunder, get the dual cast proc & then hit Impact, then hit (aoe) verAero, get the dual cast proc & then hit Impact. Personally I dont care for it but I love RDM so just have to deal with it.
What I would have done was kept the (aoe) Impact at 1.95s cast time & (aoe) verThunder/Aero at 4.89s cast time. So the aoe rotation would have been IMPACT->DUAL CAST->VERTHUNDER->IMPACT->DUAL CAST->VERAERO.
This is just my opinion but would like to hear what you think.
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05-31-2019, 09:20 AMNighthawky20105.0 RDM AOE ROTATION...NOT A FAN OF THE IMPACT CAST TIME, WOULD'VE DONE DIFFERENTLY
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05-31-2019, 09:32 AMShougun
I imagine it is this way, in part, for visual clarity. Big flower looking better blooming out from your destructive thunder and wind, vs it blooming and being visually clogged with an element instantly afterwards.
Aside from that it also allows them to give the larger mana gain (7) in the first step, which could lead to some changes in how things fold out.
Is the main reason on why you want to change it so it has that parallel feeling to the rest of the kit? (Jolt -> Elements, Impact -> Elements, rather than what it is now which is a bit flipped compared to single target). -
05-31-2019, 10:38 AMGokuhan
Agreed here. It feels very off and not intuitive to have always been (and still is for single target) the non-elemental cast to dual-cast an elemental spell and now we're going to flip that around but only for AoEs.
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05-31-2019, 10:42 AMWhiteArchmage
I'll have to actually play it to be sure of how it feels, my main issue right now is in the spells themselves:
Right now we have Verfire and Verstone for our short-cast elemental spells and Verthunder and Veraero for long-cast single target. Now Verthunder (II) and Veraero (II, I guess) are our short-cast AoEs...so where the heck and Verblizzard and Verwater?? RDM still has a large hole where those elements are concerned.
As an aside, I wanted RDM AoE to be more interesting than Scatter spam, specifically using a similar Scatter -> VerAoE mechanic... shows the devs DO listen lol -
05-31-2019, 10:49 AMLeoLupinos
I can't get it. The new AoE rotation does not make sense to be chosen Element > Impact > Element > Impact. I don't like the reverse aspect of the rotation, it should be the same feeling as the rotation for single target.
I can't understand why they thought it would be a better choice. It's easy to see: Would for single target rotation be better using Elemental > Jolt instead of now using Jolt > Elemental? Obviously no. So why change it for AoE?
They should have done:
Verblizzard: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 Black Mana.
Verwater: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 White Mana.
Scatter: 2s cast AoE, 120 pot, 3/3 mana. Upgrades to Impact during Impactful.
Moulinet: Grants Impactful, can stack 5 times, 30 seconds duration.
Impact: Instant cast AoE, 220 pot, 4/4 mana. Can only be used during Impactful. Consumes one Impactful stack.
AoE: Scatter > Verblizzard > Scatter > Verwater > Moulinet > Impact.
It's ok to keep Verthunder and Veraero as AoE for now. But make this come true, it would be so fun. The actions are already there, just tie them with this cool mechanic. -
05-31-2019, 10:57 AMSieyaM
It is going to be very strange at first for me but only because I have spent the last two years casting impact as part of a single target rotation before an elemental spell. After some time adjusting it will probably work out fine.
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05-31-2019, 11:18 AMBurningskullI really like this suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoLupinos
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05-31-2019, 04:17 PMKohdo
It's strange that they chose to do it this way. I think Scatter > AoE Veraero/Verthunder makes more sense, but I can see why they went the other way from an aesthetic point of view, as someone else mentioned.
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05-31-2019, 10:24 PMValderen
I guess the idea was to have the aoe rotation be slightly different then the single target rotation.
Either way the aoe rotation will be more interesting than scatter, scatter, scatter, scatter, etc.. :) -
06-01-2019, 02:07 AMJohnnyDevo
As a red mage main, I actually prefer it this way.
If the AoE rotation was literally the exact same as the single target but with AoE versions of the single target buttons, that'd be just as bad as having only a single button. It'd be too same-y. Especially after doing the same single-target rotation for two years.
At least this is a little bit different. -
06-01-2019, 03:05 AMspf1200
Got to love the people who think they know better than the people that have been making the game for 6(?) years. Trust me if you thought of it so did they and it ether didn't work or wasn't what they wanted for the job
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06-01-2019, 03:09 AMJohnSpawnVFXWhile I don't agree with the thread at all, there are plenty of things already that the devs have done wrong and then had to fix later (i.e. Removing MP cost from Foul), some after players requested it.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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06-01-2019, 03:57 AMLeoLupinosThey are noT perfect, a reasoN for that is the CONSTANT job balance every patch. And I play video games my whole life, I'm more than capable to know whats fun or not. Or what, now we need to study Harvard to be able to suggest something? Get real.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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06-01-2019, 11:16 AMNighthawky2010I will answer yes Shougun, make it have that parallel feeling just like the single target rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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06-01-2019, 11:23 AMNighthawky2010I love the SCATTER-SCATTER spam...lol...Scatter->VerThunder/Aero would have worked too.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage
I also agree with you about the lack of the other elements
VerBlizzard & VerWater could have been the AOEs. -
06-01-2019, 11:29 AMNighthawky2010I know, same here. I'm on ps4, so i kind of practicing in my head the aoe rotation with controllerQuote:
Originally Posted by SieyaM
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06-01-2019, 12:52 PMNighthawky2010No one was applying that we know better then the DEV Team. I was just given my opinion & my feeling. Agree or disagree this what the forums are for, to create topics for people to discuss & express themselves on certain aspects of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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06-01-2019, 12:54 PMNighthawky2010Totally agree with you Leo!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoLupinos
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06-01-2019, 03:24 PMSpiritMuseOh yes I like this! Let us have all the elements! That'd be cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010
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06-01-2019, 04:55 PMRongwayThis comment intrigued me so I did some maths. Each of the following scenarios assume you will use a Verfastspell if you have one Ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Verslowspells are 310 potency and 11 mana, with a 50% chance to proc Verfastspell Ready. The difference between a Verfastspell and Jolt is 90 potency and 3 mana, so let's attribute half of this to the Verslowspell. This means that when alternating with Jolt, a Verslowspell has an expected potency of 355 and an expected mana generation of 12.5.
Jolt(180, 6) >> Verslowspell(355, 12.5) => 535, 18.5
or 267.5 potency and 9.25 mana per GCD
The difference between a Verfastspell and a Verareaspell vs two targets is 30 potency and 2 mana. Again, let's attribute half of this to a Verslowspelll. This means that when alternating with a Verareaspell vs two targets, a Verslowspell has an expected potency of 325 and an expected mana generation of 12.
Verareaspell(240, 7) >> Verslowspell(325, 12) => 565, 19
or 282.5 potency and 9.5 mana per GCD
Pretend for a moment that Scatter/Impact are the fast AoE spells instead. The difference between a Verfastspell and Scatter vs two targets is 30 potency and 3 mana. This means that when alternating with Scatter vs two targets, a Verslowspell has an expected potency of 325 and expected mana generation of 12.5.
Scatter(240, 6) >> Verslowspell(325, 12.5) => 565, 18.5
or 282.5 potency and 9.25 mana per GCD
So for what it's worth- up through Lv61 (as long as Jolt is Jolt 1)
- and against exactly two targets
- and ignoring Acceleration and Embolden
- and ignoring other jobs' actions that might make one mob take more damage than another
the optimal spell rotation is alternating Verareaspell>Verslowspell, replacing Verareaspell with Verfastspells that proc. If Scatter/Impact were the fast spell and the Verareaspells were slow spells, the spell potency per GCD would be the same but the expected mana generation would be 1 less every 4 GCDs.
NOTE: I'm not making any judgments here as to quality of development decisions. I'm just saying what the maths say given the data we've been given. -
06-01-2019, 05:57 PMJunKriidIt doesn't matter how experienced you are, you can and WILL make mistakes. Look @ the 10+ years of developing WoW and they still made huge mistakes, many which they have admitted, changed or reversed completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
No-ones infallible, that's why you have feedback, that's why you allow people to question your actions for clarification or improvement. -
06-01-2019, 08:31 PMsabre1016Maybe alot of you dont realize that blizzard and water are there in the form of Fleche/Contre Sixte for ice and Vercure for water since all healing is water element. Having those elements as attacks would be nice,but they are represented.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage
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06-02-2019, 05:43 AMNighthawky2010I kind of disagree. No disrespect. I never considered Fleche/ Contre Sixte or VerCure as representation of Ice & Water.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabre1016
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06-02-2019, 03:59 PMRongwayThey're not. If they were, their tooltips would say "Deals ice damage". They just say, "Delivers an attack".Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010