Hiya, so I've been back and forth on tanking and dpsing since I've come back to the game, but as I get more adjusted to tanking and with the upcoming general tank changes I've decided to really commit to being a tank main. My problem though is that I leveled Drk and while I enjoy it, everyone seems to be having negative opinions of it for ShB. I also plan to level Pld, but that also seems to be getting negative opinions and I just can't bring myself to level War as it just doesn't click with me like Drk and Pld do. Should I just go against the flow and keep on as a Drk or maybe as a Pld, or would it better to just try war again when ShB drops? I'm trying Gnb regardless since it does look fun lol.
A touch of concern from a would be tank main.
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05-30-2019, 11:54 PMRenryuuA touch of concern from a would be tank main.
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05-31-2019, 12:07 AMBright-Flower
I don't know DRK well enough to comment.
Paladin however, I think is looking to be much improved.
Yes, we lose a couple tools like bulwark. Yes, cover costing oath gauge is a little sad. But what we're getting IMO far outweighs the few negatives. I'm personally excited to get my pld to 80 with the full new rotation. I don't know where PLD will fall in the meta, but all tanks should be perfectly viable at 80. -
05-31-2019, 12:17 AMBeefslab
What? Paladin is looking great.
From the raw numbers we've seen so far, they appear to have highest PPS from all four tanks.
As for mitigation, it's not any worse.
The only time I remember Cover being useful in the entire expansion was during O4S and Ultimates. Plus now we don't have to proc Shield Swipe so Gauge cost is less of an issue.
Sheltron is a straight up upgrade from Bulwark thanks to blocking 100% of the time.
Clemency is supposedly the "worst" of tank healing tools, but hey, if you ever need to take care of yourself because healer died or something, it doesn't matter if it's inefficient.
The weakest part of the mitigation kit would be Passage of Arms, and I'd like to see it give people a 5-10 second buff, similarly to AST's bubble.
Don't worry about what Warrior mains say. They claim to be the best, but guess who'll be the first to beg for buffs in 5.1... -
05-31-2019, 12:22 AMBright-FlowerQuote:
Originally Posted by Beefslab
I don't now if this happens in savage or not, with enrage timers it may not matter anyway, but there have been plenty of normal mode or dungeon bosses where I've saved a run with clemency when the healer(s) go down. It has its time and place for sure. -
05-31-2019, 12:23 AMKanitezz
Go against the flow? Um yes? If you want to. Come on now. Its your life. Be who you wanna be. Forget what everyone else wants.
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05-31-2019, 12:27 AMBright-Flower
Honestly, I'd just see what jobs you enjoy in ShB. All the tanks will be viable. And likely still in demand once the initial rush of new GNBs plays out.
All the tanks will be viable, and unless you're looking to really push savage in the first groups or something you don't need to worry too much about which job is in the meta or not at the moment. -
05-31-2019, 12:30 AMDualblade
Become what you must.
And thats what you want to play. Changes will be happening right up until the first tier of Savage comes out so even if Dark Knight isn't too great changes can happen pretty quickly. -
05-31-2019, 12:36 AMDarkpaw
I mean aside from a few posts here on the OF and on the subreddit i've not really seen anyone complain about PLD or DRK, both still look extremely fun, and DRK got a lot of QoL skills. Neither job will be unplayable or anything like that at content, and probably much of what you see are just people being salty for no reason whatsoever. So play what appeals most to you, and have fun with it
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05-31-2019, 12:42 AMDuskane
Basically play what you think is fun or looks fun to you
Its a good thing with FF14 that your not locked to one job so really not end of the world if you feel like swapping between tanks
And really no need to worry about "the meta" not as big of a deal as people make it out to be -
05-31-2019, 01:19 AMKalise
For what it's worth, I believe that in terms of "Meta" the tanks will be categorized in the following way: Paladin > Warrior > Gunbreaker > Dark Knight.
But what do I know? I haven't played with them, neither has most other people. I'm just going on "Yet to be finalized" information from a build that media outlets tried.
In practice things could be different.
As it stands, most of the qualms with DRK come from concerns about the gameplay changes. So it's hard to say how much stock to put into them, maybe the new DRK will be fun for you? No-one knows.
Personally, I'm going to look into playing GNB, it looks to be quite fun from what I can tell (Despite maybe not being the top of the meta, I don't particularly care about that facet as much as I do having fun gameplay) while I'm not personally a big fan of the direction they're taking WAR with the continued reliance on Inner Release being FC spam as a large portion of the gameplay focus, to say nothing about the completely lacklustre recycled animations for Inner Chaos and Chaotic Cyclone...
In short, I don't think any Tank is going to be unplayably bad. So don't fret too much about it and just play around with things once ShB drops and see what clicks for you. -
05-31-2019, 01:39 AMRenryuuWell my problem is that because I've been playing MMOs for at least 10 years or so now, I'm so used to being a Summoner (warlock in WoW) that I default to it by instinct and with me finally having lost that instinct and being able to move away from casters into tanks and melee, I have no default to go to. I leveled Drk cause I like 2h swords and it's the "cannon" job of ShB. Pld, with the invisible shield glamour, I can enjoy it a lot more, but with all the skills and buttons it has at the moment compared to Drk, I end up feeling a bit overwhelmed and can't find comfortable enough spots with controller to map them all along with role skills. The only thing I do know is that I have no interest in War after I had leveled it to 60 in HW and Gnb does interest me alot since I'm sucker for sword users (which is why I'm doing Sam as one of my potential dps replacements to Smn lol). So at the moment, I just simply don't know if I genuinely enjoy Drk or if I would enjoy Pld more if I could just get a comfortable enough layout for controller. Basically I'm a lost little puppy now with no home to go to lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanitezz
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05-31-2019, 02:09 AMKanitezzI spent a fair amount of time finding a comfortable mapping for my controller. It might help you to look up controller mapping guides or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
If worse comes to worse you could always just go through 5.0 MSQ with Dark Knight and worry about Paladin later. I dunno. -
05-31-2019, 02:19 AMJeeqbit
Don't listen to the negativity. The naysayers haven't even played 5.0 yet. :confused:
It doesn't matter which tank you choose. All of them will work in all content.
Play whatever you enjoy.
I'll give you an example. I main Paladin. Throughout time people have tried to say that Warrior is higher DPS. So what? I main and enjoy paladin and have had no trouble doing any content I want to with it. I've never seen people ejected from content on the grounds that they are not a Warrior, and nobody has ever even cared because it just doesn't matter in FFXIV. -
05-31-2019, 02:39 AMRenryuuQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
Well I do need to level Paladin to 70 and see if I can make it more comfortable to play and go from there. At the moment, even though it is simple in comparison to the other tanks, I do like Drk since because it's simple I can better react to mechanics and tank busters as opposed to trying to focus on doing multiple different combos and keeping up dots. Though using Salted Earth on controller is quite frustrating to put it nicely. x_x -
05-31-2019, 02:51 AMKanitezzYou can make a macro that automatically casts salted earth on the target you have selected. You can set it up and put it on your hotbar. In battle make sure you have an enemy selected, press the macro and itll just pop up under the enemy. Its what I use for all abilities that make you select an area to target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
I think its like
/ac “Salted Earth” <t> -
05-31-2019, 03:14 AMJeeqbit
You can macro Salted Earth to place on the target automatically. I do. I think it should be...
/action "Salted Earth" <t>
/action "Salted Earth" <t>
/action "Salted Earth" <t>
/action "Salted Earth" <t>
Repetitions can help make sure it registers if the command is blocked due to finishing an animation.
Whether something is simple or not doesn't matter; whether you enjoy it does. -
05-31-2019, 03:25 AMBright-FlowerHuh. It could just be because I've mained pld and only played DRK casually but I found DRK during my stint with it harder to keep track of everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
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05-31-2019, 04:40 AMRenryuuoh, I use the macro myself, it's just a shame having to use a macro to make using ground targeting a bit less cumbersome on controller since macros kinda make it a touch harder to get the cast off as an oGCD skill. I mean, I do quite enjoy Drk, it made for a great transition job from casters to melee since it kinda acts like a caster in a way. It has been a very fun experience so far and I guess is why I haven't really rushed to level up the other tanks all the way to 70 lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
Maybe it's because I had been playing casters for 10 or so years and since Drk is a bit like a caster in a way, it comes more naturally to me and thus feels much easier than compared to say Pld and War. Also as I play Drk more, I've been consistently adjusting my bars to make it more and more comfortable and have just about got it, all that's left is my debate on how important it is for me to have it within quick press reach or if I should relegate it to one of the L2/R2 combos and have something else up front. Also while on the subject of controllers and hot bars, I find it perplexing and a bit sad that we can't use L1 and R1 for hot bars. I mean, I know R1 is used for hot bar cycling, but with the addition of L/R combos (e.g. R2 + R3) we could make R1 + R3 cycle hot bars. It could literally double the amount of hot bar access we have now lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower
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05-31-2019, 06:42 AMJeeqbit
PLD is very much a caster, casting Holy Spirit and Clemency from miles away. It's going to lose cast times in L77+ dungeons in 5.0 while under Requiescat but they are still there outside of it, so Clemency will still have cast times.
DRK has spells too but there are no cast times and only Salted Earth and Unmend are ranged, so they aren't really what I'd consider a caster. I really enjoy that their attacks look and are classified as a form of magic on the tooltip though. -
05-31-2019, 08:02 AMRenryuuTrue, I don't know why I keep thinking of paladin as a physical fighter in the same vein as warrior. I will for sure give it a go to 70 and see how I feel about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
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05-31-2019, 08:36 AMTint
DRK actually looks like a pretty solid maintank, he just also looks like he is not much fun to play.
DRK has the same 20% / 90 second and 30% / 120 second cooldowns like everyone else. His ultimate cd is a mixed bag - it has the second shortest recast out of all of them and is easier to time because you have 10 seconds to die + another 10 seconds of safe time after that. But then there is the heal requirement...
His real benefits are Dark Mind and of course TBN. The shield of TBN stacks nicely with %-mitigation skills and is almost always ready. With Dark Mind he has an additional strong CD against magic tankbusters, where GNB only has a 50% parry / 10% mitigation, WAR has a 20% healbuff and PLD well... has nothing I guess? Of course Sheltron is strong enough to stand on it's own with 30%+ mitigation...
But with Rampart + TBN, Shadow Wall + TBN and Dark Mind + TBN and of course the short recast of Living Dead DRK should have strong answers against tankbusters. TBNs 25% shield is also a strong utility in the offtank position, you can give a rather powerfull shield to the maintank. His new magic aoe shield is also a powerfull utility, while on paper weaker than the GNB aoe shield, all raidwide aoe attacks are magical (or darkness damage, wich can't be reduced anyway), so I don't see the issue here. Well, GNBs aoe shield may be more usefull to help mitigating tankbusters as well.
DRK is lacking in fluff mitigation and selfheal. He is also still dependand on magical tankbuster to play out his strenght. And the gameplay looks kind of... not fun. But he does not look weak compared to the other tanks. -
05-31-2019, 09:09 AMJojokomoko
Play whatever you want man. To be honest, I don't think tank balance in ShB gonna be completely broken just like 2.0 WAR, Heavensward PLD, or 4.0 WAR (God that shake it off and beast gauge loss when stance dancing.) They're going to be some disparity between each tank that's for sure, but it's not going to be that big of a problem.
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06-03-2019, 02:07 PMGalactimusIt DOES give a 5-6 second buff. As soon as you pop Passage of Arms every party member behind you receives a 6 seconds buff. You can immediately attack the boss as soon as you pop it. You don't have to sit there doing nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefslab
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06-03-2019, 04:36 PMGreywolfamakirDon't believe people. People can't tell you about gameplay feel, you'll have to try it by yourself. About DRK's performance, we don't know yet, it looks good, like every tank. Numbers from Media Tour were NOT the final numbers, so from a pure performance perspective, we know NOTHING yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
It's the same, don't believe people. PLD looks pretty awesome, just like every tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renryuu
TLDR; If you aren't looking for World First, every tank is perfectly fine, there is no wrong choice here. -
06-03-2019, 10:15 PMDerio
I dont care about Meta. I care about what is fun to me. Even though DRK has not been Meta, people still play it.
Me personally I am going to play DRK because I have been a DRK main since 3.0
I am also going to try out GNB and decide which one out of the two I like the most and go from there. Remember the build they played was from April so there could have been little changes or there could have been several changes. We wont really know until June 14th.