This post is to discuss the problem currently with a third party website tracking and notifying players of hunts. S ranks are being killed by Wanderers before the server they are visiting is even aware its there. Their needs to be more cross world hunt discussion within the confines of the game itself. Suggestion - Larger Cross World Linkshells, Hunt Spawn Times and Data (which already made available third party) available in game. This is a huge disadvantage to PS4 players without a PC. I don't want to go back to the broken hunts of Guildwork days. Please discuss.
Third Party Hunt Sites should not be our only CW comms.
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05-30-2019, 05:42 AMSaranadeThird Party Hunt Sites should not be our only CW comms.
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05-30-2019, 07:29 AMJeeqbit
We will get 8 Cross-World Linkshells in 5.0, in one month's time. Until then, we'll have to work with the situation as best we can.
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05-30-2019, 09:36 AMAlucard135
And even with those cross world linkshells, it won't stop people from using discord or 3rd party websites. Since you're limited to 64 per CWL and discord already have over 3000.
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05-30-2019, 12:38 PMSaranade...
and this is acceptable, why?
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05-30-2019, 12:44 PMShougunI don't mean to sound dark but it will always be that way as per the design of the system itself (like pvp teams communicating and coordinating over voice being grouped against a party of randoms). Then it's just a discussion of whether or not it's worth changing, value of X over Z and so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranade
Maybe that's what you were trying to drive the conversation though :D. Personally I don't really like the concept of hunt trains and would love shake the hunt system up a little bit to dissolve a lot of the overflowing overpowering zergs into two groups (the hunters/spawners, and the killers/farmers where in the system will attempt to make a space for both in a somewhat more dynamic personal (doesn't mean solo) setting). Things to avoid servers being sniped by other servers, outside trackers being mandatory, lag or minor delay in response meaning lost event etc. -
05-30-2019, 12:52 PMSaranade
I just don't see how a sole 8 cross world linkshells with a very small cap, could possibly solve anything. These trackers should be implemented into the game itself. None of the info is a secret, and if it was/will be, it will be had.
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05-30-2019, 01:05 PMJeeqbit
With one linkshell, the concept of transmitting information from one linkshell to another linkshell has to be done another way (regular linkshells, /tells, discords).
With 8, the information can hop from linkshell to linkshell like stepping stones, allowing worlds to become aware of their hunts before wanderers get there. -
05-30-2019, 01:10 PMShougunHonestly I doubt any size anything linkshell related could ever solve it all, but certainly could help (people finding something and attempting to do it on their own will not be reporting it of course, so in that any number of shells will not help). I can imagine the wonderful drama that could rise out of very large mandatory cross world hunt shells though :D.. XD..Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranade
But you're saying an in game tracker could solve these issues? So besides time of death it sounds like you were also suggesting it notifies people that a monster is up (from reading OP), yeah?
Just curious if the info was public do you think it would be okay for people to try to do it on their lonesome? Or is that sort of activity part of the problem? -
05-30-2019, 01:24 PMSaranadeIn direct response to your question, an in game official tracker would absolutely solve the problem. We currently have a third party website, among other third party programs *Ahem* Ay See Tee already doing so. I don't agree with third party anything, it is against the TOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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05-30-2019, 01:33 PMShougunWonder how bad the early pull (drama) / how big the trains would get if the whole server is informed of a spawn (I'm a bit skeptical, but it could be fun to test just for the heck of it lol). Perhaps as a test SE could make a weekend event with a few slightly modified hunts with server wide notifications, "break my servers part 2" lol (if it goes well, make another one lasting a week and see how that goes :3).Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranade
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05-30-2019, 05:05 PMAlucard135Actually, no. The game isn't required to provide such features. No matter how much they improve linkshells, they will not beat discord or hunt trackers. These websites are easy to use and doesn't put strain on the game server which makes them a lot more efficient for others. It's like you're asking SE to compete with discord and put extensive resources to provide these features. And you might end up paying to use them like the companion app.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranade
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05-30-2019, 05:23 PMHalivelThe main thing is that Hunts never were supposed to be a "server content" in the first place. They called "Hunts" not for nothing. "You found - you killed" is a default rule, and if somebody found a Hunt on the map, it's up to him to decide, how to deal with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranade
That be said, all "rules" about waiting for others and such actually is a community initiative, it's not how they wey re designed. Yes, it's a very good thing that community has a mentality about sharing info so others can kill hunts too, but technically those, who kill them alone have right to do so.
The only really painful moment is when a party spawned S-hunt and it was killed by somebody else before they found it, but even in this situation "you found - you killed" is still valid, because hunts do not belong to anybody. -
05-30-2019, 06:26 PMRyuSaarva
There is a solution, all S rank spawners must stop spawning, then bots won't get any S rank kills.
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05-30-2019, 08:44 PMVasala
What I would like to see is just a simple hunt board by the appropriate NPCs of that expansion that would just show the name of the marks with either an x through them or no x to show whether or not the hunt is available to be spawned so people do not waste time / resources on hunts that someone else killed and did not report to anyone else. Or have the hunt npc in each zone have slightly different text depending on whether or not the mob is available. Something like the danger is past for now or rumors of sightings of the beast have been heard, etc. It would also be nice for the S ranks to let out some sort of zone wide taunt or roar when they spawn so the people working on spawning know when they have succeeded. This would help the situation where the people doing the work can potentially have the S rank they were working on spawn and be killed without them knowing it due to the players that are using mods to tell them when and potentially even where the S rank spawned. I just want to see the playing field on an even level at least so the legit hunters are not at such a disadvantage to the ones using third party tools.
I would also like to see either the S ranks scale up to the highest level in the zone or some sort of sync function since even now some of the ARR S ranks can be soloed and all of them can be low manned and this will just get worse as our levels continue to increase. Yes, I understand that it is not desired for people of the appropriate level to be unable to do a specific hunt but it is also not very available to them if a small party or solo max level can slaughter the S ranks of that expansion in a few seconds. -
05-30-2019, 09:49 PMLiam_Harper
The problem isn't wanderers or third party websites in general (such as trackers). It's more that there's a tiny group of players using a specific third party sniffer (which is frowned upon by the majority of the hunt community) which instantly spots, flags and relays S ranks to everyone with that sniffer. This group then go out of their way to kill that S rank before anyone else gets it and will openly brag in chat, knowing it annoys the majority of other players. They will do this all day.
Hunting has turned from an enjoyable social activity that brought the server community together into a stressful, anti-social mess where one player has the power to troll hundreds by intentional design. It's technically allowed but still a shame.
I'm really hoping they address this in ShB. A 5+ min invulnerable buff would be plenty. -
05-30-2019, 10:22 PMKatCnaaI don't see expanded cwls doing anything but speeding up S rank kills by wanderers. Hunts are already communicated across the single cwls people have faster than they are on discord.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranade
I really adore the idea of a map-wide auditory taunt by an S rank when they spawn. The idea of a giant monster entering a map completely silently is, frankly, kind of absurd. I see this engaging more players in The Hunt than what we have now.
The problem I see with The Hunt currently, that I don't see with any other aspect of FFXIV is this: you are forced to interact with trolls. The answer SE has for trolls is "ignore them" most of the time. This is not possible when in order to hunt, you must be part of communication networks. It _is_ possible to go around hunting with a full party, but this will cause the datacenter to turn toxic against you. Thus I do not understand what SE was aiming for with these changes.
A global timer built into the UI would bring more people to the hunt, and you would have more acceleration of what we are currently seeing with how hunts are done, I think-with the added rub that now you would be made aware of every time someone else killed Melt or Wulgaru without notifying anyone else, because hunting would be more visible without the added tooltip of "hey, join a hunt shell to let other players know of this wondrous thing you found".
The best idea I have is to make hunt timers track to the individual player, at least for A ranks. It could work for S ranks, also. But if hunts were no longer a global kill, players would be able to choose who they interacted with, and could freely ignore others who they don't want to interact with. Moving A rank spawns on a timer*--whether random or set intervals-- would allow players to still form trains and hunt in a big happy mob, while allowing other players to choose to hunt as a small group, on their own time. S rank spawning could be an individual endeavor or still a datacenter-wide one, if changes were made such that the S rank was levelsynced as a FATE, or had an invulnerability timer on it for a certain amount of time after spawn, or some other system. I fully believe there are ways SE could do this without destroying the essence of what makes The Hunt inspire so much passion in players.
*The idea I have for A ranks is one in which your killing an A rank caused that monster to die only for you, with the A rank's timer starting from the moment of your kill credit. It would not matter if you killed it individually or in a party. The fight with that monster would be like fighting monsters from a treasure map, where once engaged, no one else outside your party could see or interfere with the monster. For those outside the party, the monster would be untouched and engageable on their own pull decisions. If the unengaged A ranks moved on a random global timer, this would allow players to still scout and do trains, if they scouted them shortly before doing their train. The limiting thing I see is how many monsters this would cause SE to have to track to each player, as I do not know the resource cost of individual player timers. But such a system would dissolve the salt in the hunt faster than ClFl3, as there would be no need to deal with any trolls in game or outside of it. You would not be forced to join any discord or linkshell or cwl that you didn't want to in order to participate in in-game content--while still avoiding datacenter hate.