What do we know about the Twelve and their cults?

I feel like, even after all these years and two lorebooks we don't really know much about the Twelve, not only about *who* or *what* they are/were but also about their cults and how they relate to eorzean's everyday lives.

Althyk, for example, is still very obscure despite being quite important since we know that historians usually respect him and that's it.

What about Lymlaen and sailors? Do they have any rituals for ships and stuff?

Menphina is revered by Keepers of the Moon...but how exactly?
She doesn't seem that much about hunting in the moonlight and stuff and more about being a loving maternal figure in general.
I can see the goddess being very important for Keepers families because of the whole Zhloe's "Menphina's embrace" but that seems mostly fitting more for the female core of it.
Males are pretty much ousted from the family as soon as they can, wouldn't they be more about Oschon because wandering or maybe Thaliak/Althyk if they go the hermit erudite route?

What about Azeyma and Keepers and also her being the goddess of "enquiry"?

Would Nymeia be extremely important for any pratictioner of astrology?

We know that Au'Ra don't really worship any of them is it safe to assume Viera and Hrothgar will be the same?

I could go on with many questions and I know it may seem silly but I would really love to know more about any little tidbit since it's a bit odd that, to this day, we don't know too much.

We don't really know. For all the talk about the Twelve there's very little evidence of things like clergy or formal worship for most of them (outside of Ishagrd, anyway.) We see people talk about them and invoke them in oaths or the heat of the moment (by the Twelve!), and there are shines dedicated to them, and an occasional priest, but that's the extent of it shown in game. Outside of Ishagrd, prayer and worship seem to be more personal than organized.

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We know that Au'Ra don't really worship any of them is it safe to assume Viera and Hrothgar will be the same?

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Probably. Gods are very much a regional thing. The far east doesn't revere the Twelve just like Eorzea doesn't revere the kami. Stands to reason the Viera and Hrothgar worship something else entirely.

It's worth pointing out that the Second Astral Era was very religious, until those theocracies collapsed in the Third Calamity and broke the power of organized religion; that's what made the Allagans rather atheistic. The faith of the Twelve is apparently at least as old as Allag, and so was probably shaped by those events.

I'm not sure it's fair to refer to them as "cults" - at least, unless you're the sort that maintains that ANY religion is a cult, and the established religions are just cults that have gone mainstream. Worship of the Twelve is perfectly acceptable in Eorzea, even expected, to a degree - whereas true cults, like the Lambs of Dalamud, are looked upon as delusional and (justifiably) dangerous fanatics.

In-game, however, I think that Ishgard's worship of Halone is the only case whose worship is gone into in with any depth, and appears to be patterned after Catholicism (specifically, medieval, Inquisition-era Catholicism). It's worth noting, however, that worshipers of Halone never downplayed any of the other Eleven as being "false gods" - while Halone is the center of their worship, the others are no less godly than she. Even Nophica, Halone's bitter rival, is never singled out as being unworthy of worship. Also worth noting, it may well be the case that non-Ishgardian worshipers of Halone do not subscribe to Ishgard's church, but worship her in their own way.

It's also risky to generalize that Au Ra do not worship the Twelve. The Twelve are worshiped in Eorzea, and while most Au Ra do not live in Eorzea, the few that are born and bred there probably DO. Worship of the Twelve is a regional and cultural thing, not a racial thing.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I'm not sure it's fair to refer to them as "cults" - at least, unless you're the sort that maintains that ANY religion is a cult, and the established religions are just cults that have gone mainstream. Worship of the Twelve is perfectly acceptable in Eorzea, even expected, to a degree - whereas true cults, like the Lambs of Dalamud, are looked upon as delusional and (justifiably) dangerous fanatics.

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I used "cult" but I agree that "religion" or just "worship" would be better terms, it's just that the word "cult" doesn't have the exact same connotations it has in English and can be used as a synonym in my mother language, sorry.

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It's also risky to generalize that Au Ra do not worship the Twelve. The Twelve are worshiped in Eorzea, and while most Au Ra do not live in Eorzea, the few that are born and bred there probably DO. Worship of the Twelve is a regional and cultural thing, not a racial thing.

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I agree that it's totally possible with Eorzean Au Ra but I was referring mostly about what traditionally happens where the greatest bulk of the race resides, which in this case is in Othard and for Viera and Hrothgar would be Golmore Jungle, Skatay Range and Ilsabard I guess.

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It's worth pointing out that the Second Astral Era was very religious, until those theocracies collapsed in the Third Calamity and broke the power of organized religion; that's what made the Allagans rather atheistic. The faith of the Twelve is apparently at least as old as Allag, and so was probably shaped by those events.

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Oh yes, I remember that passage from the lorebook, would be nice to know more indeed.

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We don't really know. For all the talk about the Twelve there's very little evidence of things like clergy or formal worship for most of them (outside of Ishagrd, anyway.) We see people talk about them and invoke them in oaths or the heat of the moment (by the Twelve!), and there are shines dedicated to them, and an occasional priest, but that's the extent of it shown in game. Outside of Ishagrd, prayer and worship seem to be more personal than organized.

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It's a shame we don't know much, even if there is no formal highly organized religion it would be good to know how the various people in Eorzea intertwine their worship in their lives especially for those groups that traditionally do it, like Keepers of the Moon and Menphina, Seekers of the Sun and Azeyma and so on.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I'm not sure it's fair to refer to them as "cults" - at least, unless you're the sort that maintains that ANY religion is a cult, and the established religions are just cults that have gone mainstream. Worship of the Twelve is perfectly acceptable in Eorzea, even expected, to a degree - whereas true cults, like the Lambs of Dalamud, are looked upon as delusional and (justifiably) dangerous fanatics.

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Originally Posted by IlSire

I used "cult" but I agree that "religion" or just "worship" would be better terms, it's just that the word "cult" doesn't have the exact same connotations it has in English and can be used as a synonym in my mother language, sorry.

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In fairness, the term 'cult' can also be used in English simply to refer to a particular sect of faith devoted to a particular god or goddess, and doesn't necessarily have the same negative connotations; this term is used often in academia, for example, when speaking about polytheistic religions (i.e. the Imperial Cult in the Roman Empire which worshiped emperors as deities after their deaths). This definition would fit perfectly for what you described. The problem mostly arises with its popular usage, which is negative in tone and usually refers to the aforementioned insular and fanatical religious groups; that's probably where the confusion is coming from.

Primals all of them...

Halone seems to have the largest organized religion of the 12, followed by Rhalgr in Ala Mhigo prior to its fall.

While worship of the other gods in conjunction with a city's patron deity is fine, it's very controversial to change a city's patron god. The only example we have of that is when the Mad King of Ala Mhigo decided to make Menphina the patron god of Ala Mhigo.

That said, each city-state honor their patron god in their own way and tries to remain true to what the god represents.

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As one might expect for a maritime city-state, Lominsans revere Llymlaen, watcher of the seas and goddess of navigation. True believers make pilgrimages to the mark of the Navigator before they set sail, and upon their safe return to port. The worship of Llymlaen has roots in a loose collection of local beliefs, however, and thus cannot be thought of as a formal religion. Indeed, the Navigator has no grand temples nor clergy to Her name in Limsa, save the odd bethel overlooking the endless seas. Instead, each man keeps his own faith within his home through prayer and humble ritual.

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Oschon's Finger: When a thief is caught, a common punishment is to remove a number of fingers proportional to the value of the items stolen. These fingers are then taken and blessed by anointed priests of Oschon, the Wanderer. It is thought that, when carried on a journey, these fingers will point out the safest routes, and are therefore cherished by caravan drivers and traveling merchants throughout Eorzea.

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Gridanians see the Elementals as extension of Nophica. By obeying the Elementals, they're honoring Nophica's love of nature.

Ul'dah have Nald'Thal. The Thaumaturges and the funeral rites associated with them is how they honor Nald'Thal.

Sharlayan share the same creed of Thaliak via pursuing knowledge and wisdom.

I do recall one quest where a priest at Adama Llamdama told us to make a pilgrimage to Azeyma's prayer stone. Apparently, people make such a pilgrimage to pray for her "divine judgement." There's even one npc in Camp Drybone that actively worships Azeyma. He says that the Calamity was Azeyma's divine judgement for man's sins.

I think it was said that moon cats paint their faces as a way to worship Menphina.

Outside of the main city-states and their patron deities, I think the worship of the remaining 12 is more personal and depends on what the god represent. I guess people will pray to one of the 12 for a specific reason. Nophica for a good harvest, Llymlaen for safe travels, Azeyma for justice, Nald'Thal for a good afterlife or business deal, etc.

Tbh…

When I finished creating my character 5 years ago… I was looking through the twelve and was like
“Oh… Choose a deity…? What for?”

I was reading the entries and “Menphina” was my choice because of two things...
“Keeper of The Moon” & “Love”

5 years later… Now… I wanna know more about those 12. What do they look like? Do they exist? Can we like receive their aid say like a ‘Boon’ for one hour each Eorzean Day?

Thoughts? Feelings? Ideas?

A little bit of FFXIV game development history here...

Back in 1.0 to 3.x, elemental damage was still a thing in the game as a whole. Picking a deity shifted around your elemental defense stats a little bit. However, in 4.0, elemental damage was removed from the game as a whole and put into Eureka as a main mechanic. As part of that, the elemental defense stats gained from picking a deity disappeared and now picking a deity is simply a Role Playing decision.

:D Asked about this recently too, hyped to see more people chiming in! I would absolutely love more lore on the Twelve too (just caved and ordered the Eorzea Encyclopedia in case there is more info there haha), but can reply to some of this with stuff I've just noticed floating around.

In my experience, Halone/Ishgard seems to have the most formalized and detailed following. Ul'dah with Nald'Thal is decently solid too, especially if you do thaumaturge/black mage quests. Picking up on exactly how Nald'Thal translates I think involves not just playing certain questlines but also being able to piece together cultural and environmental clues and see how those integrate. It's very present throughout Thanalan but is more understated than Halone is in Coerthas. There are priests and saints, funerary rites and holy sites, and practitioners of black magic are explicitly linked to Nald'Thal, the void, and forms of destruction. Seemingly distinct destruction from Rhalgr though. What hierarchy exists within Ul'dahn clergy (if any, there are faiths irl that lack hierarchies so it wouldn't be crazy to think religion surrounding Nald'Thal could be similar) hasn't been shown yet. But it's interesting that unlike conjurers or even Halonic magic practitioners, thaumaturges actually keep their base in a holy site to Nald alongside priests. There is some religious weight on them.

Meanwhile, Gridania hugely reveres the Elementals in day-to-day practice and has tons of rites surrounding them. They also tie conjury/white magic to the Elementals specifically. However, Nophica as the Matron and a figure who I kind of read as a fertility/harvest goddess in the spirit of Demeter in Greek mythology barely gets brought up. If anything Haedalyn herself seems to have a more prominent role as the Mother in that respect, which strikes me as really odd. I've been interpreting the way Elementals are worshiped/revered in Gridania as culturally similar or parallel to the worship/reverence paid to kami in Othard. Nophica I also figure might be more tied to natural fertility as a kind of mother goddess, whether that references childbirth in animals or humanoids or successful harvests. I've been taking Hydaelyn as a broader and more spiritual than physical creator figure, who represents raw materials and the organization/act of creation rather than the successful, positive externalized result of creation. Might find out that interpretation is off later, but for the time being it's what I'm going with. I'm still really weirded out that Gridanians don't seem to interact with Nophica regardless.

Llymlaen seems super MIA to me and I haven't seen much in the way of worship for her. However, if every time Lominsans reference the ocean/sea/water/etc. it gets taken as synonymous with Llymlaen then I guess as a goddess she's super chaotic and might help or murder everyone on a whim. You might get a good haul of fish, you might get a storm that drowns you and all your crew. Just pray and give tribute and hope for the best. But Llymlaen is referenced specifically as navigation/being able to successfully know where you are going so idek.

I've seen analysis pointing to Sophia as a sort of proto-deity to Nald'Thal and Azemya with imagery of both attached. There is also imagery around Qarn that supposedly points to religious evolution and certain gods being conflated IIRC? I also know that when you finish the Unending Coil of Bahamut, Louisoix is shown surrounded by the Twelve as crystals--setting them apart from primals and linking them to Hydaelyn more closely. I have serious questions on what this implies but can only speculate.

I do think that there might be parallels between the relationship Au Ra (moreso Xaela) have to Azim and Nhaama relative to the Miqo'te with Azemya and Menphina. Imo the forms, stories, and certain connotations differ, but the overall concepts are consistent. I do personally conceptualize Menphina as being more akin to say, Aphrodite, than to being a maternal figure. This isn't to say she couldn't have children theoretically, I mean Aphrodite did in Greek myth, but her main role isn't as a mother goddess. If ties are drawn between Menphina and Nhaama, the big consistency is that both are viewed very much as lunar lovers. Nhaama has the role of being Dusk Mother too, but as a figure there's more to her as well. If Menphina is tied to love and the moon, I personally would interpret her as also being tied to the concept of lunacy as moon madness, to dreams and the unconscious and desire. That's something that comes up a lot in spiritualism, mythology, etc. so doesn't seem like a big stretch. Azim/Azemya (VERY SIMILAR NAMES I AM SO SUSPICIOUS) idk if the deity is a guy, a girl, neither, both, who even knows. But both are the sun and both exist as counterpoints to the disciples of Nhaama/Menphina respectively. Azemya is also seen as the Warden and is written to be charged with receiving confession, which places her in the role of judge in a way. Azim I have been taking in the spirit of the Emperor card in tarot so wouldn't be a stretch to see him holding that function as well--an authority.

Thaliak we know is sacred to Sharlayans, and represents knowledge/exploration. There are iirc symbols and references to both him and the impact he has on culture throughout Idyllshire (particularly in architecture), but because the original residents are gone we don't have as much info as we might have in Ul'dah or Ishgard. Worship of Thaliak does seem to be more present and significant among Sharlayans compared to say, Nophica among Gridanians or Llymlaen among Lominsans.

Rhalgr is definitely present in Ala Mhigo and afaik seems like a kind of Darwinian/Spartan chaos god? Will keep his people protected from forces of nature, but expects them to fight tooth and nail to become the strongest they possibly could be. Fordola IIRC believed that the Garleans in their might were the rightful rulers of Ala Mhigo due to their victory and that only through their own might could the Ala Mhigans prove themselves worthy. It wasn't explicitly stated but I think it's reasonable to say she believes that the Garlean occupation was a test/judgment by Rhalgr. It seems like the people of Ala Mhigo have ranging interpretations of what Rhalgr represents to them, some more benevolent, but all tie him to the idea of power itself.

EDIT: I didn't see some of the other posts in this thread previously and it changes my understanding a bit haha. Especially on Llymlaen and Nophica. Still was fun though so leaving the notes!

Just would like to point out that it is Menphina who is the moon goddess and patron of the moon keeper miqo'tes.

Nymeia is a goddess of fate, as well as the goddess whom Theodoric, the Mad King of Ala Mhigo, claimed he was chosen by when he outlawed the Fist of Rhalgr.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Just would like to point out that it is Menphina who is the moon goddess and patron of the moon keeper miqo'tes.

Nymeia is a goddess of fate, as well as the goddess whom Theodoric, the Mad King of Ala Mhigo, claimed he was chosen by when he outlawed the Fist of Rhalgr.

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OOP I GOOFED. Thank you, gonna edit haha.

Actually, besides the Ishgardian Orthodox Church of Halone, there are other examples of organized clergy for other members of the Twelve - the Church of Nald'thal in Ul'dah being the most obvious (even though the church worships Nald'thal's dual aspects as seperate deities which players may know as the Arrzaneth Ossuary (aka the THM's Guild) and the Milvaneth Sacrarium, and there is also a smaller church of Nald'thal dedicated to Saint Adama Landama, plus even smaller shrines still found near Highbridge and Forgotten Springs).

And speaking of Camp Drybone a roegadyn priest of Azeyma can also be found there, sermonizing anyone who will listen (before the Calamity he was in Gridania for some reason, but post Calamity is in Thanalan still trying to convert anyone who will listen to the Warden).

Apart from that, worship of the other members of the Twelve seems to be less regimented (it's unclear how much worship of Nophica fits into Gridania's magocracy, but 1.0 seemed to suggest that the elementals were closely tied in with Her (a 1.0 Gridanian main story quest outright had a moogle declaring that the elementals had annointed "those beckoned by the wood" (Real!Yda and Papalymo) as "messengers of Nophica", which even took E Sumi-Yan by surprise), so the Gridanians' reverence towards the elementals could sort of be thought of as revering Nophica by extension (lets not forget also that the Order of the Twin Adder outright used Nophica in their recruitment posters).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

it's unclear how much worship of Nophica fits into Gridania's magocracy, but 1.0 seemed to suggest that the elementals were closely tied in with Her

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They believe that the elementals are fragments of Nophica:

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Originally Posted by Encyclopædia Eorzea

Nophica, tender of soils and goddess of good harvests, is the patron deity of Gridania. While She does not want for devotees in other lands, only in the Twelveswood does one find the curious belief that the elementals are sprung from Her essence. These beings are at once the force of the forest’s vitality and its defenders, ever ready to purge invaders from amongst the trees. Their presence is felt most keenly in the everyday life of Gridanians, and many are the festivals and rituals performed in honor of the elementals.

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Originally Posted by Encyclopædia Eorzea

Guardians of the Twelveswood and creators of the Hedge—a protective barrier which wards the forest from evil—the people of Gridania see these beings of pure aether as spiritual fragments of Nophica, the Matron Herself. It is said that the elementals can communicate with man but have chosen to only do so through the Padjal—intermediaries chosen by the wood to serve as its voice. The elementals will suffer man’s presence in the Twelveswood unless they are angered, at which time they will resort to violence to see the perpetrator cast out.

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One other thing to be pointed out is after the keeper of the lake quest Minfillia is told about the covenant between midgard and hydaelyn, however the tale they are used to is between midgard and one of the goddesses... I cant remember off the top of my head. (At work so cant play the scene) So the point of what I'm saying is... how much of the 12 is honestly even real. When Louisouix invoked the 12 to contain Bahamut he didnt get them, he got their symbols. So are they even real or is some of the stories, what little of them they may be, have just been changed and is actually Hydaelyn.

I would really like more ingame reference to Nymeia myself. I feel like she's likely based on a combination of all 3 Fates from Greek Mythology since she's tied to fortune and weaving, but it would be cool if that meant she also had 3 separate personifications as a result. I'd also like to see Gold Saucer npcs reference her sometimes since she's usually the chosen patron of gamblers. That's the reason my character chose her as a patron, no time to worship anything but good luck. Doesn't help improve my dice rolls ever though >_>

Got Encyclopedia Eorzea, there's a ton of other info in there including creation myths and afterlife concepts (among other things). I might be able to paraphrase some of it into here, just want to avoid direct copying to respect the creators of the encyclopedia.

Compiling lore on the Twelve has actually been a long-term project for me! But I usually only put together posts when there's a demand for them. So far I've done 10 out of the 12, with Halone and Llymlaen (my matron deity) still to go! Hopefully I'll get to those at some point! But here's sharing what I've put together about the Twelve so far!

- Menphina, the Lover
- Thaliak, the Scholar
- Nymeia, the Spinner
- Oschon, the Wanderer
- Byregot, the Builder
- Rhalgr, the Destroyer
- Azeyma, the Warden
- Nald'thal, the Traders
- Nophica, the Matron
- Althyk, the Keeper

(At some point I'd like to go back and add in all the new info about the Saints blessed by the Twelve into each post like I've done for Nald'thal. Eventually that will happen!)
Hope this helps, OP!

I made a tumblr post of all the saints, the virtues associated with them and the basic outlines of their stories.

https://0bsidian5ire.tumblr.com/post...al-fantasy-xiv

It is rather funny how many of the saints' stories and virtues have very little to do with the god(dess) they are associated with.

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Originally Posted by Sounsyy

Compiling lore on the Twelve has actually been a long-term project for me! But I usually only put together posts when there's a demand for them. So far I've done 10 out of the 12, with Halone and Llymlaen (my matron deity) still to go! Hopefully I'll get to those at some point! But here's sharing what I've put together about the Twelve so far!

- Menphina, the Lover
- Thaliak, the Scholar
- Nymeia, the Spinner
- Oschon, the Wanderer
- Byregot, the Builder
- Rhalgr, the Destroyer
- Azeyma, the Warden
- Nald'thal, the Traders
- Nophica, the Matron
- Althyk, the Keeper

(At some point I'd like to go back and add in all the new info about the Saints blessed by the Twelve into each post like I've done for Nald'thal. Eventually that will happen!)
Hope this helps, OP!

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I made a tumblr post of all the saints, the virtues associated with them and the basic outlines of their stories.

https://0bsidian5ire.tumblr.com/post...al-fantasy-xiv

It is rather funny how many of the saints' stories and virtues have very little to do with the god(dess) they are associated with.

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All this information is great and it's pretty much what I was looking for.
A true treasure for this thread indeed, thank you!

The worship of Llymlaen pretty much mimics real life practices of ancient peoples. Most sea gods/goddesses were considered to be temperamental at the best of times and downright unreasonable at worst. So there wasn't usually much in the way of a clergy, just a lot of offerings tossed into the ocean and hoping you caught the deity on a good day.

Considering how volatile the ocean tended to seem before the days of satellites and proper weather tracking, it is very much understandable how a people could see the deity in charge of such a body of water being irrational. So it makes sense that Llymlaen falls into the same pattern. Specially in Limsa Lominsa, a city founded by pirates, they're not exactly the sort of people who'd sit down and form an organized religion after all.