The 1st race

Anything in the lore books or in game that said which of races came first.

Not that I've seen. Going by the game's pre-existing themes and Varis's assumptions about how to best usurp the Ascians, it seems like a safe bet that we're supposed to assume the five six eight(?) races came into being around the same time, all Hydaelyn's children.

Not sure. I tend to assume elezen but that's really only because they're the elf analog and I have absolutely nothing to back that up. It may have been around the same time but we don't know.

The only races that I know of that seem to have a they've been around for a long time are the moogle and the Anata. The Anata were made during a time of chaos and lot of people were just struggling to survive and since they're as old if not maybe a lil bit older than the Allagans that puts them at having been around for at least 5,000 years. The moogles have their story about their King making a very long rope that ended up costing his life for the rest of them to climb down on to escape the fighting of the gods that at least for moogles got super scary. This sadly is just another topic we have very little info on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

The only races that I know of that seem to have a they've been around for a long time are the moogle and the Anata. The Anata were made during a time of chaos and lot of people were just struggling to survive and since they're as old if not maybe a lil bit older than the Allagans that puts them at having been around for at least 5,000 years. The moogles have their story about their King making a very long rope that ended up costing his life for the rest of them to climb down on to escape the fighting of the gods that at least for moogles got super scary. This sadly is just another topic we have very little info on.

---

Keep in mind the allagans themselves to the best of my knowledge also weren't a 'race' but just a nation, I'm pretty sure they at least had hyur given the clone characters in the crystal tower storyline. And there were Miqo'te I think that far back too when you look at the mortals that were held in stasis that served Sophia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

The moogles have their story about their King making a very long rope that ended up costing his life for the rest of them to climb down on to escape the fighting of the gods that at least for moogles got super scary. This sadly is just another topic we have very little info on.

---

I'm still a firm believer that the Moogle creation/King myth is nothing more than their recounting of the start of the Dragonsong War. So many points just add up...

Worth noting, however, that the First seems to have Moogles if the trailer is anything to go off, which is an indication that Moogles (or a common ancestor) have been kicking around since the start, pre-Sundering and Astral/Umbral Eras. Shame they're just copies with blue poms, instead of going for a variation on design (similar to Lalafell/Dwarves).

Now that I think about it though... I wonder what it was like living through the Sundering? Did each Shard simply get a copy of what was on the Source at the time? Or was it perhaps more like the recent data center split? Groups being split across the Source and Shards? Their creation myth could certainly be in reference to the Sundering if it's the later...

As for the topic... Well, we have essentially zero knowledge on a pre-Sundered reality, and the majority of races seem to have existed prior to that in order for their "copies" to exist on the First. Impossible to really tell what race came first under those circumstances, only what races came later, Ixali for example.

There is plenty in the lore book about when the different races migrated to Eorzea. But there is nothing about which race is the race the rest of the races are variations of.

What did get revealed at the Tokyo Fan-Fest was that the 1st Shard has all the same player races Hydaelyn does, just under different names. So I'd say that's very indicative of all the races being distinct races at the time of the Shard Split.

From the looks of things, it seems Norvrant has the same geography that Hydaelyn does, just with 12,000 years of timeline difference, which is almost nothing on a geological time-scale. On a cultural time scale, that is huge though. So having all the same races have very different cultures compared to the Source races makes a lot of sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Keep in mind the allagans themselves to the best of my knowledge also weren't a 'race' but just a nation, I'm pretty sure they at least had hyur given the clone characters in the crystal tower storyline. And there were Miqo'te I think that far back too when you look at the mortals that were held in stasis that served Sophia.

---

True I had posted before coffee. I want to say there's also maybe Roes as when we deal with Sophia some of her followers pop out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Not sure. I tend to assume elezen but that's really only because they're the elf analog and I have absolutely nothing to back that up. It may have been around the same time but we don't know.

---

The closest we have is a claim by the Elezen themselves that they were the original inhabitants of Eorzea, but that is only for one region in particular, and we don't have any evidence of that either other than apparently racial pride.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

What did get revealed at the Tokyo Fan-Fest was that the 1st Shard has all the same player races Hydaelyn does, just under different names. So I'd say that's very indicative of all the races being distinct races at the time of the Shard Split.

---

One interesting thing worth noting, though, is Varis's claim that, before the split, there was only ONE unified race (the very race he hopes to merge everyone back into once the Rejoining occurs, so they can provide a unified front against the Ascians). If this is true, then not only did the Sundering split one race into eight (or more), it did it the same way on the Source and all the Shards.

The indication is that before the Sundering, there were no Lalafell, or Hyur, or Hrothgar, or whatever - just one race. After the Sundering, all these races exist, and exist the same way on all Shards.

If anything, that's more proof that the Ascians are either outright lying to Varis, or deliberately leading him to form a false impression of their origins.

Yeah. Any info that comes even indirectly from an ascian is automatically suspect. Varis thinks that but we have no idea if it's actually true.

i would think it is more there is a singular progenitor of the current races, whose descendants evolved into the unique races - But that I think is very unlikely.

If we look at Human Evolution, we come within a group human species called "Hominins" Each species were clearly evolved with an array of differences, but the commonality amongst them is that they all physically looked similar - with disparity occurring in hair, facial structure, brain size, limb size and composition and height. Majority of these strange interbred, or died out until we ended up with modern humans.

In terms of Hydaelyn, you could argue that Hyur, Elezen and Roe's are loosely related and evolved from a progenitor. But that would require an explanation as to why Elezen ears are pointy. In all the evolutionary strands for humans, the ears were always uniform in design - or at least the ones displayed at the exhibition i recently went to were.

Quite how Viera, Hrothgar, Miqo'te and Aura emerged from the progenitor would need quite an explanation.

For lalafels, they arguably could be an offshoot of Hyur, in a similar way an ancient species of human were hobbits. But they evolved in a small island environment where space mattered.

As the sundering happened only 10,000 years ago, there isn't enough time for separate evolutions to take place. Therefore for me, it is much more likely that the races existed prior to the sundering. Or at the very least, Progenitor races for each existed, with maybe Hyur and Lalafel (if they aren't a product of genetic engineering) sharing a singular race. We know there is a much older, third clan of Aura in existence, as Koji confirmed this in one of his lore panels. Based on this i think Varis is probably mistaken, though i don't think he is "lying" as he truly believes what he is saying.

If we're taking a guess at an evolutionary trail, I'd put the earliest form of 'human' as something like a Hyur with slightly pointed ears. Possibly with a tail.

Earliest split would be between a "human-like" group (Hyur/Garlean/Elezen/Lalafell/Roegadyn) and "animal-featured" group (Miqo'te/Hrothgar/Viera/Au Ra).

The human group split up with Hyur/Garlean/Elezen as a spectrum. Lalafells are canonically island-folk, so an equivalence to real-world hobbits is likely.

Hyur and Roegadyn split, then Hyurs into Midlander/Highlander. Or potentially there's still some mixing there and Highlanders actually do have some Roegadyn blood in them, like some human populations have Neanderthal ancestry.


Meanwhile the "animal group" split into Au Ra and proto-Miqo'te/Hrothgar/Viera. Actually getting to Miqo'te from proto-human has long been in the "don't even try to make evolutionary sense of it" basket, but Viera and Hrothgar both seem like obvious steps onwards from there once it happened.

10,000 years actually is about the length of time it's thought to have taken the modern races of Earth-humans to diverge from common ancestors.
Granted, the Eorzean races are more diverse, but there's still the possibility of magic or Allagan genetic engineering. I don't think the timeframe is an issue.
Assuming what Varis was saying is that the races "degenerated" into the current ones. I more got the impression that the Sundering actually split the original race into the current ones right then and there.

My guess is that the first race is the one that the Ascians belonged to before the Sundering, perhaps a race of Echo users. And if we believe what we know so far, it was none of the current ones, as they supposedly originated from it after said sundering. What was it exactly? I doubt that we'll ever get a straight answer to that question, other than maybe some details of a first civilization of some sort and such.

Since that's Ascian information, I'm not 100% convinced there even is a progenitor race at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

One interesting thing worth noting, though, is Varis's claim that, before the split, there was only ONE unified race (the very race he hopes to merge everyone back into once the Rejoining occurs, so they can provide a unified front against the Ascians). If this is true, then not only did the Sundering split one race into eight (or more), it did it the same way on the Source and all the Shards.

The indication is that before the Sundering, there were no Lalafell, or Hyur, or Hrothgar, or whatever - just one race. After the Sundering, all these races exist, and exist the same way on all Shards.

---

This all sounds very Reminiscent of The Dark Crystal. When the Crystal cracked the Main race split into two completely different species that had similar anatomical features in regard to number of limbs, but were drastically different in appearance having different posture , skin tones, facial features etc... If we think of the splitting of the worlds like this then the races would not necessarily have to have evolved directly from one another and could have instead be fractured versions of the original race, each taking different characteristics from their surroundings and evolving later on to what we know now. Of course this is entirely speculation as Varis has no proven basis for his claim.

One of the reasons why I think Varis's ravings might have some substance is precisely BECAUSE it comes outta friggin' nowhere. It's the first hint we've ever seen that there might have ever been a "progenitor" race, and the fact that Varis believes firmly enough in it that he's willing to let the Ascians (temporarily) win indicates to me that he has SOME source of knowledge aside from word of mouth from the Ascians themselves. The Garleans do love them sum Allagans, and the Allagans were situated much closer to the Sundering than we are. It's possible that Varis unearthed some documents that lent credence to his crackpot theories.

This in no way changes the fact that it's a monumentally stupid idea to let the Ascians have their way, even discounting the moral nightmare of murdering countless millions in order to make it happen. Varis's plan is rooted in the belief that a unified race will be free from infighting - that the sole (or, at least, primary) source of human conflict occurs due to racial differences. If all humans had the same body shape, surely we'd all get along, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haxaan

This all sounds very Reminiscent of The Dark Crystal. When the Crystal cracked the Main race split into two completely different species that had similar anatomical features in regard to number of limbs, but were drastically different in appearance having different posture , skin tones, facial features etc... If we think of the splitting of the worlds like this then the races would not necessarily have to have evolved directly from one another and could have instead be fractured versions of the original race, each taking different characteristics from their surroundings and evolving later on to what we know now. Of course this is entirely speculation as Varis has no proven basis for his claim.

---

One big difference in the Dark Crystal is that the Skexis and the Ancients were still single individuals, just existing in two bodies. Whenever a Skexis died, their corresponding Ancient died, as well, and vice versa. The racial split, if one happened, definitely wasn't like that. At least, not beyond the first generation; who knows what life was like back then? In today's generation, however, we don't have a Hyur, Miqo'te, Elezen, and so on all snuffing it every time a Lala dies, so it seems unlikely that any living person has counterparts among the other races to merge with if a Rejoining were to occur.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Since that's Ascian information, I'm not 100% convinced there even is a progenitor race at all.

---

There is a ruined statue of Zodiark on the moon and someone has to have made it somehow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This in no way changes the fact that it's a monumentally stupid idea to let the Ascians have their way, even discounting the moral nightmare of murdering countless millions in order to make it happen. Varis's plan is rooted in the belief that a unified race will be free from infighting - that the sole (or, at least, primary) source of human conflict occurs due to racial differences. If all humans had the same body shape, surely we'd all get along, right?

---

Let's not forget that letting them win also implies Zodiark is also free to do whatever he wants, and he might just wipe out life to 'start over' if that is his agenda. Does Varis believe a 'united' race could beat the Dark One? I assume he at least knows about Zodiark.