What if... the base "Classes" got Job Crystals, to convert them into different roles?

As cool as it is to unlock your first Job Crystal, I feel like the base Classes actually get overlooked, despite having some pretty cool lore themselves (well, in some cases, anyways).

The idea of playing a Gladiator -- who fights for GLORY, not heroism -- or a Pugilist, more interested in a good brawl than perfecting an ancient martial art... those are cool ideas.

While I'm less familiar with them, I've heard that in the original FFXIV launch (pre-ARR), Conjurer and Thaumaturge were both pretty interesting, as well, being quite a bit different to the Jobs they eventually turn into (Conjurer being more nature-themes, and Thaumaturge more astral-themed, I think?).

As such, the idea just sort of crossed my mind... what if you could "ascend" those base Classes, fleshing them out at proper "Jobs" of their own?

For example, take the Pugilist.

Maybe when you acquire the "Job Crystal" for Pugilist (or rename it, like "Brawler"), it suddenly changes your skills to prefer hitting enemies from the front, generating additional threat (enmity?) and replacing "Greased Lightning" with something like "Adrenaline" that helps you shrug off damage somehow.

Or Gladiator becoming a purely Damage-focused job, maybe even forgoing a Shield entirely (something the in-game character creation description heavily implies anyways). Or maybe when you unequip your shield, your main-hand weapon is duplicated in your offhand, allowing you to dual-wield just like Raubaun... y'know... used to.

If you REALLY wanted to riff on the idea, you could go all-out as "Job Variants", sort of like Scholar and Summoner are "connected". So maybe for Monk, the new "job" introduced would be Geomancer, letting you "armor" yourself with the element of stone and earth. Maybe Barbarian is introduced as an "alt-job" to Warrior, maybe dual-wielding one-handed axes instead. Maybe Bard gets split into a proper Healer (Bard) and Damage (Ranger?).

I mean... don't get me wrong; I am not *EVEN REMOTELY* displeased with the current selection of Jobs!!!

Rather, I thought it might be kind of cool way to get more mileage out of the existing Jobs. Just my two cents!

Sounds similar to a Thread I made recently ;)

Really, it would be nice to extend the classes into jobs, but unfortunately, it's unlikely to happen.

Given that they mentioned that they only had the resources to be able to add in 2 jobs with ShB, the possibility of them suddenly being able to add 9 more (To account for all the base classes) would be way out of the question.

Not gonna happen. They already admitted it was a mistake doing that with sch/smn, and will not be doing it again.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Not gonna happen. They already admitted it was a mistake doing that with sch/smn, and will not be doing it again.

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The mistake with that is that they shared Exp. They should have the classes split into multiple jobs with separate levels.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

The mistake with that is that they shared Exp. They should have the classes split into multiple jobs with separate levels.

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And that smn and sch have been incredibly hard to balance ever since. Not just exp. Having jobs work off of classes means they have to basically make new jobs anyway, and at that point it's easier to just... Make a new job.


Because if they wanted to adjust skills for one variant, it would effect the other, unless they used job traits, which they are doing with smn and sch now. But that just makes them completely separate jobs anyway, so why tie them to a class at all. You know, what they've been doing since heavensward

The idea would be awesome if done correctly. I would definitely like to branch Archer off into Ranger and make it DPS focused. Imagine Conjurer branching off into a mage that could cast Flood, Quake and Tornado to name a few ancient magicks.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And that smn and sch have been incredibly hard to balance ever since. Not just exp.

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That has to do with their individual designs, primarily that they involve pets. Those would have been issues if they were totally separate.

I would rather they remove the option to equip a job stone. You start the game as a level 1 warrior and are called a marauder until level 30.

You also shouldn't be able to queue for any content >30 without a stone equipped.

There should be additional locks in place to block queues for people that don't keep up with their quests or, alternatively, remove skills from class quests at all.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

That has to do with their individual designs, primarily that they involve pets. Those would have been issues if they were totally separate.

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it dosent just have to do with pets it has to do with every move you learn from the base class so that means stuff like ruin 2 and shadowflare

In practice that would just mean creating a new job for every class, while also necessitating a ton of traits to convert existing abilities into ones appropriate for the role.

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Originally Posted by chokoanders01

it dosent just have to do with pets it has to do with every move you learn from the base class so that means stuff like ruin 2 and shadowflare

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I didn't say just. At the point they split those abilities can now be part of the individual jobs. Those abilities don't have to be the same thing anymore but they choose to keep them the same, their design choice. They do have some abilities change. They don't have to keep them related.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

The idea would be awesome if done correctly. I would definitely like to branch Archer off into Ranger and make it DPS focused. Imagine Conjurer branching off into a mage that could cast Flood, Quake and Tornado to name a few ancient magicks.

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Lore wise that's exactly why white magic is forbidden. It'd have to be a whole unrelated class or retcon the CNJ lore for it to make sense.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Lore wise that's exactly why white magic is forbidden. It'd have to be a whole unrelated class or retcon the CNJ lore for it to make sense.

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Either that, or maybe just introduce it as a new Job? I've never played a Conjurer, but that *sounds* quite a lot like a Geomancer. Perhaps it could be introduced by a new character wandering the shroud (maybe a Viera or Hrothgar?) who was drawn to Gridania for tales of communing with the elements, but was cast out for attempting to *command* the elements instead of working in service to them?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Not gonna happen. They already admitted it was a mistake doing that with sch/smn, and will not be doing it again.

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That was because of multiple glaring mistakes in surrounding systems, not the SCH/SMN pairing itself. None of the issues they actively set alongside that pairing were necessary or unavoidable. One might as well say that clothes are a mistake after somehow wearing a sweater both backwards and upside down.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because if they wanted to adjust skills for one variant, it would effect the other, unless they used job traits, which they are doing with smn and sch now.

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Right, unless they do that thing they already did, and could have done with the launch of ARR, that makes all of that a non-issue and would, had it been implemented in its reasonable time, have left us all ignorant that such an issue could even exist. Again, an error in surrounding systems, not the concept.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Lore wise that's exactly why white magic is forbidden. It'd have to be a whole unrelated class or retcon the CNJ lore for it to make sense.

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At no point does the CNJ lore say never to cast powerful elemental abilities. Advice for discretion and not destroying the world are rather separate from a ban on any greater elemental magics.

Moreover, Flood, Tornado, and Earthquake are not, in themselves, White Magic, if I recall correctly. White Magic is defined by source and means, and should be quite distinct in that regard from basic conjury, as we see through Sylphie who, like her mother, was trying to channel through the strength of her soul, rather than through blessing of the elements. The Black Mage story line similarly focuses on the means of channeling this magic, rather than the particular elements in question.

You needn't "retcon" all of the lore to allow the Elementalist class to actually use its elements for more than mundane DoTs and rock-tossing. You might, however, need a retcon in order to call Flood, Tornado, or the like "(uniquely) White Magic". Sylphie gives us a view of White Magic as augmenting spells through her own aether, while the Mhachi, like Black Mages (or, the Amdapori), instead use ambient aether. Either one is technically an a means of infusion (albeit typically collocative with three particular elements), not an elemental category (just as, say, carne asade is still beef, just seared). And if we're talking about Conjurers specifically, there is no such infusion or new approach to the associated elements. You don't get White Magic until you become a White Mage. You just have... Conjury.

Yet the CNJ specifically in Gridania are the element's <slang for female dog> so they still wouldn't allow magic that's meant to be for succor as destructive damage forces unless the split is considered a "dark/misunderstood path" a la DRK. I'm not necessarily saying I'm against it, just that - as far as immersion and lore goes - that would be a controversial idea, at best.

so basically like the alternative class like in ragnarok online.

more class is fine but, not sure how the skill variation is going to be