To countdown or not to countdown?

Years ago back when I was a fresh 60 tank I would pull everything in raids/trials(non savage/ex DF type stuff) as soon as protect went up of course this would upset some and I quickly learned that people appreciated a countdown timer to prepare their openers. The thing is, a lot of times in these raids a healer or DPS(or even another tank) will pull(and not by accident) half way through said countdown and some even complained about countdown timers being a waste of time. So in duty finder trial and 8 man and 24 man raids, whats the best practice here? To use a countdown timer or to not use one?

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Years ago back when I was a fresh 60 tank I would pull everything in raids/trials(non savage/ex DF type stuff) as soon as protect went up of course this would upset some and I quickly learned that people appreciated a countdown timer to prepare their openers. The thing is, a lot of times in these raids a healer or DPS(or even another tank) will pull(and not by accident) half way through said countdown and some even complained about countdown timers being a waste of time. So in duty finder trial and 8 man and 24 man raids, whats the best practice here? To use a countdown timer or to not use one?

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Ask I'd say. As a dragoon, watching my blood buff count down that counter gives me anxiety and despair. I only have 15 seconds to combo and maintain my 2 stack of eyes, please do not waste 10 seconds unless someone is OOM or OOTP... or needs some time.. that's fine but unless someone has said something just PULL!

Personally, as a main tank also, unless it is savage raid content, ex trials or Alliance raids, there really isn't a big need for a countdown. When it comes to the normal 8-man raids and trials, they tend to be fairly simple no real need to thoroughly prepare for it at the start. Now unless there are complications during the fight and there is a need to push DPS either cause DPS check or team not doing enough DPS then you could do a countdown to better prepare and all.

Once I hit 50 I warned the friends that I play with "Protect is the ready check in a dungeon."

If it's EX, ready check.
If it's story content/dungeons, I'm turning on sprint as soon as I see my buff.

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Originally Posted by disturbedcobra

Personally, as a main tank also, unless it is savage raid content, ex trials or Alliance raids, there really isn't a big need for a countdown. When it comes to the normal 8-man raids and trials, they tend to be fairly simple no real need to thoroughly prepare for it at the start. Now unless there are complications during the fight and there is a need to push DPS either cause DPS check or team not doing enough DPS then you could do a countdown to better prepare and all.

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Sadly I've gotten yelled at for not doing a countdown in 8 man normal raids, I'm just trying to find a way to make everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Sadly I've gotten yelled at for not doing a countdown in 8 man normal raids, I'm just trying to find a way to make everyone happy.

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Pro tip: You can't

Life is too short to get bent out of shape because someone doesn't like something you did. People aren't a hivemind, and everyone has an opinion on how things should be done/what the correct way to pull is to them.

My problem with countdowns is when people use them while the entire party/alliance is already standing at the purple line and waiting. It's a waste of everyone's time, and I hate seeing my AST buff counters dwindle unused, especially since it's really the only chance I get to to extend everyone's buff with Celestial Opposition before every ranged DPS decides to needlessly spread out instead of, you know, standing behind the boss with everyone else.

Honestly, it's a rare day when I queue for Alliance and someone doesn't either a. pull early, or b. stand around in perpetual tank anxiety. The desirable middle ground is SO hard to come across.

I only ever do it for raids/primals and even at this point, it's something like 6 or 7 seconds. If I ran savage or ultimates, i'd probably up this to 10-15seconds.
I wouldn't use it in dungeons as there is no need

I've seen both sides of the coin when it comes to countdown timer complaints. Some say "what is the point in this" another has said "Can you do a timer instead of running in like a scrub"

There is no harm in using it, people will only get upset if it's too long and they feel time is being wasted.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

My problem with countdowns is when people use them while the entire party/alliance is already standing at the purple line and waiting. It's a waste of everyone's time, and I hate seeing my AST buff counters dwindle unused, especially since it's really the only chance I get to to extend everyone's buff with Celestial Opposition before every ranged DPS decides to needlessly spread out instead of, you know, standing behind the boss like everyone else.

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Ahh yes, when you just want a tank to pull so you can give everyone a spear..
https://i.imgur.com/OCIgboU.png

Yeah I don't use Countdown in dungeons just trials/raids its just hard to figure out how long to do it for or even if to do it since I've been yelled at by different people for either having a countdown or not having a countdown lol

There is no hard rule on this. Although in easy roulette content the general attitude is just steamroller in as fast as possible, kill everything in sight and get the tomes ASAP. In cases where a new tank/healer is in group obviously it can be prudent to set the pace accordingly so as to avoid dying due to lack of gear/optimum usage of healing/damage mitigation abilities. Countdowns Are generally used more in preformed groups looking to progress on content. In a random group it's all about getting done quick and onto the next thing although in cases where group is failing sometimes someone with knowledge may take charge, explain mechanics and do a ready check and count down just to make sure that nobody has tabbed out while waiting for explanation.

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

There is no hard rule on this. Although in easy roulette content the general attitude is just steamroller in as fast as possible, kill everything in sight and get the tomes ASAP. In cases where a new tank/healer is in group obviously it can be prudent to set the pace accordingly so as to avoid dying due to lack of gear/optimum usage of healing/damage mitigation abilities. Countdowns Are generally used more in preformed groups looking to progress on content. In a random group it's all about getting done quick and onto the next thing although in cases where group is failing sometimes someone with knowledge may take charge, explain mechanics and do a ready check and count down just to make sure that nobody has tabbed out while waiting for explanation.

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Honestly I've had problems with readycheck too people checking ready when they aren't actually ready, people can be so fickle XD

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Honestly I've had problems with readycheck too people checking ready when they aren't actually ready, people can be so fickle XD

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Like the tasty potato man said : You'll never please everyone =]

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Yeah I don't use Countdown in dungeons just trials/raids its just hard to figure out how long to do it for or even if to do it since I've been yelled at by different people for either having a countdown or not having a countdown lol

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Do what you feel comfortable with because no matter what you do, someone is going to be pissed.

I don’t find it needed unless you’re in savage. And even then 5 to 10 seconds. People who want 15+ just need to do their stuff 5 seconds before hitting ready.

Personally, I appreciate ready checks in normal 8-mans, Alliance raids, Extremes, Savages, and Ultimates. For the first two, as long as they're 10 seconds, I'm fairly happy - gives me time to preplace my Earthly Star, give the tank a regen, and bait a card. Or, if I'm on BRD, it gives me time to prepull cast Foe's. For the higher end content, I prefer 15~20 because my prepull stuff usually increases if I'm a healer; for BRD, Nature's Minne on the tank to help bait a buff Adlo at -15 seconds plus Foe's and infusion stuff at -4 seconds.

I don't see the need for them in dungeons. Some trials I see players pop ready checks for, too, though. That's fine.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I don’t find it needed unless you’re in savage. And even then 5 to 10 seconds. People who want 15+ just need to do their stuff 5 seconds before hitting ready.

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In Savage, 15-20 is generally preferred if you have a SCH trying to bait a Crit Adlo. A BRD typically uses Nature's Minne at -15, with the SCH popping Largesse at the same time, and they try to bait for at least a few GCDs. They also sometimes use Fey Wind at -5 and then swap out fairies before the boss is pulled, pop Cleric, and begin pre-casting Miasma. ASTs sometimes Place Earthly Star somewhere between -10 and -5 depending on when they want it to blow up, plus regen on MT > Cleric > precast Gravity at -3. WHM does Regen + Divine Benison > Cleric > pre-cast Aero III.

10 seconds is usually too short for a lot of the healer pre-pull stuff.

There's no harm in doing 10 seconds before anything that's not a dungeon boss so long as you start it as the gate drops. It's a big mana generation and potency gain for any RDM who knows what they're doing and with as common as RDM is that can be a lot.

To whoever said to "start things 5 seconds before you press ready" that's... really not how the game works.

I guess we're playing a different game, since the I hit 70 at start of SB I've been going as soon as protect was cast (with sprint on even). Haven't heard any healer QQ about it.

For EX you just do a 10s cd.
For Savage / Ultimate you do 15-20s depending on your party setup.

So to follow up what’s the best thing to do in situations where the countdown is not respected(one intentional early DPS/early pulls)? I find “you pull it you tank it” doesn’t work because people who didn’t pull it end up getting aggro.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

So to follow up what’s the best thing to do in situations where the countdown is not respected(one intentional early DPS/early pulls)? I find “you pull it you tank it” doesn’t work because people who didn’t pull it end up getting aggro.

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A warning followed by a vote kick the next time it happens is the solution.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

So to follow up what’s the best thing to do in situations where the countdown is not respected(one intentional early DPS/early pulls)? I find “you pull it you tank it” doesn’t work because people who didn’t pull it end up getting aggro.

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Do your job and get aggro on the boss...? What kind of an answer are you looking for here?

In my experience, most pulls like this are in ally raids playing "tank chicken" while they wordlessly stand there making no visible attempt to figure out who's going to main tank. Screw that, I'm gonna use Foe Requiem and get this party started.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Get aggro on the boss...? What kind of an answer are you looking for here?

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Like to I pull the next bosses without countdown at that point if people are early pulling?

Depends on the situation, I guess. If they early pulled because everyone was standing there doing nothing, then a countdown would be helpful so they don't get irritated that nothing is happening.

Otherwise, yeah, sure no countdown. Personally, I don't use countdowns at all in dungeons, and I give like a 5 second one in ally raids if I'm feeling generous. Everyone has their own peferences. I'm usually on DPS, so I can say that in my experience most tanks don't use countdowns at all in dungeons. Anything higher than 10 seconds irritates me on non-savage/extreme content.

If they're clearly doing it just to be an ass, well, you know where the vote kick button is.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

So to follow up what’s the best thing to do in situations where the countdown is not respected(one intentional early DPS/early pulls)? I find “you pull it you tank it” doesn’t work because people who didn’t pull it end up getting aggro.

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Get together the next big trash pack and Shirk them \o/

Honestly countdown in dungeons at all are kind of pointless because of the way they work. Being faceroll easy aside the nature of dungeons is being able to bank resources for the next fight since they're all happening in (what should be) rapid succession.

I would say never do countdowns in dungeons it's a waste of time and resources.

Full party duty
Hard Savage/Extreme: Ready Check + Countdown (13-15 should be okay for everyone, it will probably change in ShB though).
Kick early puller.

Older Savage/Extreme: Countdown, grab boss if someone early pull and it doesn't mess up too much.

Easy/Unsynch: Pull away.

Main scenario: Why would you even Q this.

Light party duty
DF: Wait for buffs and sprint away!
If you can skip something do it, if someone get aggro grab the mobs.

Leveling: do a first pull to test the party.

Mentor: Just ask.

Alliance:
LOL.

But let's say the stars align and you don't find 20 headless chickens, and you don't feel like being one, a ready check before pulling bosses could do. It could suggest other tanks that you are going to MT (but no someone will suddenly wake up half in the fight deciding they are going to MT stealing the boss while adds roam free)

In any other case just go with the flow: if you die in a door to wall pull do smaller packs, if another tank insists on stealing enmity let him MT, etc.

They are useful, but I think any countdown longer than 10 seconds is excessive. Otherwise people are just standing there waiting when they could have been fighting 15 seconds ago instead of waiting on a 20-30 second countdown.

Depends on the content I'm running:

-Dungeons: No. Just wait till everyone is past the purple line. Checking their resources (MP/TP)
-Guildhests: >_>
-8-man trials: Most of them yes, 10 seconds.
-8-man ex trials: Ready checked followed by 15 seconds countdown.
-8-man NM raids: Yes, 10 seconds.
-8-man savage raids: Ready checked followed by 15 seconds countdown.
-24-man trials: Yes, 10 to 15 seconds.
-Facerolls: Things like Thordan or Cape Westwind. Most NM ARR trials. No.

But when I do have the intention to MT, I always stand ahead of the party, in tank stance and the weapon unsheathed so people are aware of my role. I usually check the other tank's stance and ask them to MT or OT depending on what tank I'm playing. Sometimes I stand in front of the boss for 2 or 3 seconds so people know what's going to happen, specially during "NO" countdown encounters like the ones I listed above.

I have 100% more respect for tanks who use pull timers in pretty much any content, with the exception of leveling dungeons and easy trials (in which case go nuts and charge in).

Outside of current EX upwards, 8 seconds is plenty, but a pull timer makes a difference. What really gets me with it is the "lol it's easy who cares" attitude in easy content, where a run that should be smooth is a complete mess because players stop bothering to even try. 24 man alliances are a really good example of this.

Pull timers are a good habit. Use them.

A ready check is more important imo

If you countdown during a light party, Selene is going to pull for you, and tank if necessary.

Just give me 5 seconds. As a monk I just need 5 freakin seconds to form shift into position and get my meditation stacks going. I really hate tanks (and anyone else) that insta-pull without warning and force me to go in half cocked, even in "easy" content.

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Originally Posted by Greven

Full party duty
Hard Savage/Extreme: Ready Check + Countdown (13-15 should be okay for everyone, it will probably change in ShB though).

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If doing a /cd for more than 10, please make it 15. Some people need to do something at -10, and if you do a /cd for 11~14 they will not get a 10 second warning.