New Dungeon Progression coming in Shadowbringers?

Wouldn't it be nice to have a dungeon where its isnt simply:
1.fight to boss A, Kill Boss A
2. fight to boss B, Kill boss B
3. fight to boss C, Kill boss C
rinse and repeat?

I would love for the devs to add in some new things. something strategic, oe puzzles.. just not the same thing all the time..

we've had dungeons where there were options and branching paths and stuff like that. 99% of the time no one wanted to do the extra stuff. you have to understand most people just want to queue up, get in and get out. devs noticed this and have adjusted accordingly. this opinion comes up every now and then. it's about 1-2% of the gaming base that wants something like this.

Oh you mean like Thousand Maws of Toto Rak where you have to find the glowing boogers to advance?

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

we've had dungeons where there were options and branching paths and stuff like that. 99% of the time no one wanted to do the extra stuff. you have to understand most people just want to queue up, get in and get out. devs noticed this and have adjusted accordingly. this opinion comes up every now and then. it's about 1-2% of the gaming base that wants something like this.

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Branching paths is not an exhaustive list of all possibilities other than Trash A-Gate-Boss A-Trash B-Gate-Boss B-Trash C-Gate-Boss C...

I highly doubt that 98-99% of the player base believes our current, rigid model to be pinnacle of design and unworthy of the slightest consideration for variance or further creativity...

Frankly, I'd rather they leave mechanics to the bosses unless said trash mechanics don't add time to the dungeon. I have no interest in unique puzzles or layouts.

Shurrikhan meet Kaizencorr. lol

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

Shurrikhan meet Kaizencorr. lol

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My point was that "something (in any way) different from the current model" is not limited to the two very spitball ideas found at the end of the OP's post. I don't want puzzles or (in the vast majority of cases) unique layouts, either, but there's tons of other stuff I'd like to see that goes beyond the current copy-pasta designs.

eh if anything it would be a novelty the first or second time. maybe the third. but by the time it gets to the 15th or 20th time (i'm looking at all the byakko/suzaku transition phases) most people don't want to deal with them anymore.

WAVES WITH NO REAL NEED FOR MOVEMENT

*rips shirt off*

\o/

Like an arena where 3 sets of mob packs jump out onto you and bosses after.. BUT, they come to us.

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

Like an arena where 3 sets of mob packs jump out onto you and bosses after.. BUT, they come to us.

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Amdapor Keep (Hard) did that with the trash between bosses 2 and 3.

It's interesting because on the one hand there are those who want dungeons to be more engaging and dynamic, only coming to the conclusion one doesnt really for the sake of efficiency.

It may be how we currently have dungeons implemented thats a barrier to this. Possibly something like a M+ system would work, affixes like in Deep Dungeon and more difficult added mechanics. But this is contrarian to the majority of the playerbases mentality of just "getting it over with."

I wonder what kind of incentives, if any, would be needed to make such content viable. I'm not sure it is totally within the spectrum of XIV currently. Not like id be against them trying.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

we've had dungeons where there were options and branching paths and stuff like that. 99% of the time no one wanted to do the extra stuff. you have to understand most people just want to queue up, get in and get out. devs noticed this and have adjusted accordingly. this opinion comes up every now and then. it's about 1-2% of the gaming base that wants something like this.

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if players and pugging is the problem then they should have a single player trust ran dungeon where they can add puzzles exploration and more than "abc every dungeon the same." At this point unless they add some variety there's no reason to have dungeons anymore because they are literally indistinguishable from each other and offer the same experience that every other dungeon provided. That is why I am not so sure why people cry about losing one copy paste dungeon (stating we are "losing content") when the team is implementing new ideas

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Amdapor Keep (Hard) did that with the trash between bosses 2 and 3.

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And... did that 1 minute segment alone in any way make the dungeon as a whole feel unique?... It hasn't exactly exhausted the entire concept of an "arena-like" dungeon.

I'd wager the vines, though, actually did a pretty decent job of making AK-H feel a bit distinct from other dungeons (apart from Halatali-HM) in its flow, despite their simplicity, given that they fit well with the aesthetic and encouraged particular placements/strategies, making the trash feel a little less mundane.

Personally, I'd like to see dungeons with seemingly intelligent and synergetic enemies--probably including their own healers, tanks, harriers, and nuke-casters. That, too, was technically already done by Halatali HM to a degree, but there's far more that can be done with it. Or perhaps even a council fight for one of its bosses that can't be handled entirely (enmity-wise) by just the tank, but isn't a mere enmity-less unit like HT-H or SV-H's final bosses. In the end, a dungeon will feel distinct not just because of a particular change in format, the addition of any one mechanic, a particularly new aesthetic, particularly unique boss fights, or whatever other singular component, but simply because at the end of the day it felt new. Wanting something that feels new may be asking a lot, but neither is it theoretically impossible. That some mechanic has already been done elsewhere, without creating an altogether "new" dungeon, doesn't mean it can't be used again and actually manage to help produce a dungeon that truly feels unique this time.

i do think its more then 1 or 2% honestly. maybe people only want to queue, get in and out, because its the same old thing every dungeon. but its a necessary evil and they just want to get over with it.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

And... did that 1 minute segment alone in any way make the dungeon as a whole feel unique?... It hasn't exactly exhausted the entire concept of an "arena-like" dungeon.

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Did my post include any judgments as to quality or feel?
I said it exists. That's all.

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I highly doubt that 98-99% of the player base believes our current, rigid model to be pinnacle of design and unworthy of the slightest consideration for variance or further creativity...

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Almost makes you wonder why practically all MMORPGs incorporate this rigid model, doesn't it? I'm sure they all do so fully believing it to be the pinnacle of design, right? Or maybe, just maybe, it's because of the simple fact that the incentive behind 'repeating' dungeons is a reward, and having twisty paths and randomness often doesn't do it for Joe Soap who wants to get from A to B for the sake of a quest-marker or item.

As such, the answer is not in public group dungeons - it is in additional/side content that gives more freedom for the individual to get what they want without impacting others who might be doing it for a very different reason. The dungeon design won't change because no matter whether it stays the same or gets altered, pockets of people will complain. The only difference is that less people will complain if it is left as is, because Dungeons, at the end of the day, rewards will always be the incentive to repeating content, and if they are repeating content then they want to be able to learn it and blitz it.

I'd like more dangerous terrains such as boulders/spikes/sinkholes littered throughout dungeons. Something to keep us more on our toes and aware of our positioning.

I'd also like a game mode where you can enter the instanced locations without the monsters there, just so I can stick my headphones in, listen to the music and take in the scenery whenever I wanted, without a time limit.

2nd boss in bartem's mettle best boss, ShB should open with that, for everyone

To be honest, I would love to see something sort of similar to 1.0's days. For example. there could be a linear path for people to just get in and out with the basics of kill trash here get boss etc. However they could add branching paths giving people options, not required to finish the dungeon, but actually give people different things to hunt and random loot to find. actually make dungeons feel like your running around in dungeons. I mean there could even be rare spawn bosses that aren't always there that drop rare loot. Special ways to spawn said bosses or open hidden rooms with extra loot. I mean they can definitely make the experience more fun than it is now.

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Originally Posted by murphdiggs

To be honest, I would love to see something sort of similar to 1.0's days. For example. there could be a linear path for people to just get in and out with the basics of kill trash here get boss etc. However they could add branching paths giving people options, not required to finish the dungeon, but actually give people different things to hunt and random loot to find. actually make dungeons feel like your running around in dungeons. I mean there could even be rare spawn bosses that aren't always there that drop rare loot. Special ways to spawn said bosses or open hidden rooms with extra loot. I mean they can definitely make the experience more fun than it is now.

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that would take up too much dev time for too little return.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

that would take up too much dev time for too little return.

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Too little return how? There is a ton of time where the devs have some down time. People all over can attest to the dungeon system becoming stale and boring. not caring about any of the lore or even caring why there there other than exp grind. Why would you not give players something exciting that might or might not happen. That rare boss appearing after killing the rare "key" mob giving everyone an exciting run because now they might get that rare minion, mount, glamour piece. The return would be huge. AND as I stated, for those people who dont care about the extras, you can still just run a linear path through 3 bosses and get out to reque. I feel like there only NOT doing this out of laziness.

yes devs are lazy. they're not doing anything most of the time anyways. how do we even get so little during patches. it's not like they're off working on other things too. *cough* FFVII remake*

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

yes devs are lazy. they're not doing anything most of the time anyways. how do we even get so little during patches. it's not like they're off working on other things too. *cough* FFVII remake*

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Your right, they aren't. seeing as how the teams working on the 7 remake and working on FFXIV are DIFFERENT TEAMS. Good thing you didn't try and rebuttle my statement with like facts or anything though. Point stands the devs can do more to make dungeons more interesting and it would be a massive win for the player base and inject new life in the dungeon environment of this game. They NEED to change it up or people are going to find something else to play.

they just advertised they've had 16 million people play the game. I think they're fine.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

they just advertised they've had 16 million people play the game. I think they're fine.

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fine doesn't mean the player base is happy or satisfied. we play it now because there's no choice. i'm just offering a possible example of a choice that would make both camps of players happy.

Could just make a checkbox and have the normal dungeons get a few rooms added.

Someone like me who works 60 hours a week doesn't want to queue up in an RP dungeon and read every piece of paper, so I go normal roulette.

Others can form a party of 4 in PF, check the "Explorer" box, and physically walk their booties over to the dungeon which would open other things. Like for example the door in Sastasha is now open, or the route doesn't collapse in Copperbell Mines HM, stuff like that. Don't even need to add an entire wing, just a room or two with a stupid enemy that drops some crafting stuff or something, or hell, dyeable dungeon gear. FF14 is mostly reused assets anyway, so all they'd do is just pallet swap a random enemy that makes sense and stick him in a room with minor mechanics.

Players have shown for sometime now that they are lazy. Puzzles and others things would be nice, even if it is optional to progress through a dungeon but would they bother putting in hrs extra for "maybe" players will do it.
Maybe add extra hidden chambers and stuff with a boss that drops something unique, but the chances of that happening is not very good

I would love some more difficult 4 man content. It seems like every dungeon I do its 2 trash pulls then boss repeat till end of dungeon, it's very easy an very repetitive. Idk the answer but I would really like some kind of challenge in dungeons an not just increasing the damage an health of mobs but something more interesting.