Is Zodiark evil?

Just as the question topic says, is he evil? In other games, like the Elder Scrolls, there are superbeings like Anu and Padomay, which represent stasis and change, they have no moral compass. Likewise, there are the Aedra, which are 'of our ancestors' and the Daedra, which were not of the people of Nirn's ancestors, again, there's no good or evil associated with them.

Some of the Daedric Princes are far more malevolent, but even then, their true will is unknowable. There was the Aedra: Umaril the Unfeathered, which was an Aedric being, of the same gods that the people of Nirn worship, but was an Auroran, and essentially a tyrant king.

Sithis is the "Dread Father", but is akin to an abyss, although those in the assassin's cult: the Dark Brotherhood worship him and kill people in his name, it's not said that Sithis is evil.

So is Zodiark evil? Or, are the Ascians simply doing their own thing?

For that matter, is Hydalyn "good"?

I feel like the answer to this is going to be complex in the end, but that regardless of the complexity, he's sure going to seem evil.

Hydaelyn and Zodiark occupy a place in the lore that echoes the classic games, and thus it appears pretty clean cut: the Mothercrystal is Light and "good" and Her counterpart is Dark and "bad". But in the big picture, this isn't a classic game, and thus it will probably be more complicated than that. For example, I'm almost positive that - in the end - "good" and "evil" are going to be dependent on, more than anything, one's point of view.

Consider Elidibus, the closest thing we have to a measure of Zodiark's intentions. Is it so "evil" to see our cosmos as an aberration of the natural order in need of redressing? That, regardless of what has come after, it is a mockery of what was and ought still to be? But from our perspective, he's responsible for incalculable suffering and loss to the world we know and love. He and his are directly responsible for the utter annihilation of eight and a half worlds not unlike our own, and the deaths of everyone there upon, and he plans the same for us. ("These lands, these people, this world─all shall soon change.")

Even if Zodiark is "evil" (from our perspective) it might even be incidental; what if his attributes are the attributes of Darkness and He can no more deny his nature than the scorpion of The Scorpion and the Frog?

This is something that should be addressed in Shadowbringers. The simplest answer is no. But a more complex answer might be yes, in the sense that their right effects our right so we view it as wrong. A good way of looking at it is how do you view something "bad" but is it really bad, or do you just perceive it as such.

As far as we know... He's suggested to be Evil, with Hydaelyn being suggested as Good.

By the nature of how Hydaelyn caused the fracturing of the world into the 13 shards in order to lock Zodiark away. In addition to how she also helps adventurers such as the WoL deal with Primals that would threaten the world(s) by granting the Echo.

Though, it's unclear if Zodiark can also grant the Echo (If he cannot, then it leads to some awkward realization involving the fact that Ascians became Ascians due to the Echo enabling them to do so)

So, we have Ascians trying to rejoin all the shards with the Source - Not only ending all life on the shard, but also causing a Calamity on the Source. With the purpose of reviving Zodiark. Which suggests some level of Evil, because of the extreme loss of life involved in this.

Then we have Hydaelyn who's doing things like expending her life essence to grant a Hero the Blessing of Light so that they may protect the world (Soon to be worlds) as well as things like saving Minfilia's soul from disappearing into the Aethereal Sea (Though, one could argue this in of itself, is an act of Evil... :rolleyes:). This suggests a level of benevolence and thus Good.

It's possible that Shadowbringers might complicate things somewhat, but I think at the base level, Zodiark being Evil and Hydaelyn being Good are very likely to be absolutes.

haha i thought you meant the server :D

It is a very difficult topic I think

Some very early ARR spoiler










I seem the intention of Zodiark is to bring darkness and chaos to our world and he would make whole again with Hydaelyn. On the other side Hydaelyn claim Zodiark is power hungrey and banish him.
While both flooding of light or darkness mean no good for our world, and Elidibus once said Zodiark have no intention of flooding darkness to our world.

Good and evil become a simple point of view. Rejoining will result a mass genocide among all shard. However, what rejoining would bring us is never mention and while we do the deed killing every primal and extinguish darkness will result in flooding of light. Are we the good guy which our doing will result in turn our world in a form of void, or are those prepare to sacrifice all shard and bring the greater good to the one (if rejoining is actually the ultimate good ending)

We can only wait for the idea to be expand in ShB, Zodiark is inevitable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Just as the question topic says, is he evil?

---

From what little we know, he appears to be evil. But we really have no idea about his actual motivations and intentions.
We do not know to what extent the Ascians' actions reflect Zodiark's will, or how much they truely know about Zodiark.

I have a feeling that this will turn out to be not so much a matter of "Good" vs "Evil" as a matter of "Order" vs "Chaos", with Hydaelyn on the side of "Order", and with Zodiark and the Ascians on the side of "Chaos".

What we do know is that if the Ascians follow their plans and make more rejoinings happen, then that will cause the death of many millions of people - which in my book at least is an evil thing to do.
It is possible that in the grand scheme of things it is the lesser evil, but it is still evil, and the Ascians show no hint of regret or remorse over all the deaths they have caused.
So I'd say that at least the Ascian's are evil, no matter what Zodiark may be.

So far, Hydaelyn has not really given us any cause to doubt that it can be considered "good".

As others have mentioned, Hydaelyn has never given us much cause to doubt that she's "good". We even get to see things a bit from her perspective through her lines in the "Answers" theme, which paints her as one who loves her children, wishes for them to thrive and be free, and is pained when they suffer.

Zodiark is much more mysterious; everything we know about him we know through his effects on other characters. We know that Hydaelyn (apparently a GOOD entity) felt the need to cast him out and seal him away - but even that does not necessarily indicate that he's evil, merely that Hydaelyn felt he was incompatible with the world she envisioned. We know that the Ascians do awful things in his name, but we do not know whether he endorses those actions.

He may turn out to be much like Promathea in FFXI - dark, but not evil, and an entity whose very being threatens the current order of the world. We may need to oppose him simply because his existence is harmful, not because he is bad as an individual. Really the worst that could be said about Promathea was that he was selfish - willing to hurt his companion Altana (and, as it turns out, doom the world to eventual consumption by the Cloud of Darkness) in order to fill his ultimate ambition of self-destruction. Zodiark may be the same way; we know that he coveted power, and perhaps that put him at odds with the well-being of the world.

Of course, there's CERTAINLY plenty of room to make Zodark Capital E EEEEEVIL, as well. He doesn't HAVE to be a morally complicated or ambiguous character. It's pretty likely that we'll encounter and have to defeat the guy eventually, either way, so we'll find out the truth in due time. It's worth noting that he's sealed in the moon - just like the ultimate villain in FFIV. And THAT villain had very little in the way of moral complexity, whether you're referring to Zemus (who wished to commit genocide in order to colonize the planet) or Zeromus (literally the incarnation of the evil that lies within the hearts of humanity).

I wish that in a way, we could have done something akin to the Warrior of Darkness serving Zodiark from the beginning of the game, kind of like the Horde/Alliance thing in WoW but better. Where if we picked Zodiark as our patron deity, we'd side with the Garleans during the story, they could have still made it end up in favor of how it did, having some victories for Hydalyn, like the thrashing of Gaius, but some in favor of Zodiark like the Garleans taking over Ala Mhigo and Doma.

This is my take on the story. In a battle of resources, a story can be dumbed down enough to not have the obvious solution(:share). XIV's about battle for ideology of both systems of existence, Order and Chaos. Warrior of Darkness does not serve Zodiark. Arbert from the WoD story use Crystal of Light and quite frustated when Hydaelin didn't response (because she really doesn't know how to work Darkness from Light, that is the primary purpose for WoL/WoDs). The only way to serve Zodiark (using the Crystal of Darkness) is to be Ascian.

First things first, if it's about who should be on top of the food chain. A system of chaos (Zodiark's view) will create pockets of Order to maintain. And vice versa, system of Order (Hydaelin's view) will create pockets of Chaos. There are many things Hydaelin aren't telling us (even though she is "good" to us). I wouldn't be surprised if Ascians were the natural effects of imprisoning Zodiark (thus putting Order on the top of the food chain), then she had to have WoLs/WoDs for dealing with that issue (again she doesn't know how).

Secondly, which side you're on doesn't matter. Both WoLs/WoDs and Ascians are freaks of nature from each side of existence. WoLs/WoDs use Blessings of Light to gain Brink of Death, perpetually avoiding permanent death. While Ascians born from death, perpetually avoiding going back to the lifestream. Arbert was tricked into doing this. From Ascian point of view, they didn't lie, this is how it works for them. Basically, however we want to wield our powers is up to us but we can't really change the way we exists.

Zodiark himself is quiet, we only aware the extent of his agents. Same like Hydaelin, she doesn't tell us what/where/how. She's merely the *why* (=the will), in layman's term, "You exists in my domain of existence so yes I care about you". Would it be great if we start as Chaos on the top of food chain? True, but the worlds wouldn't be as we know it or try to preserve.

While we don't know if Zodiark himself is evil... everyone who claims to work for him really doesn't like the world as it currently is working and is actively working to change that. And from the looks of things, they don't care about what happens to all of the life that is currently living in the world.

The people who work for Hydaelyn meanwhile care a lot about the world and what happens to the people in it. They want them to have as much agency as possible and to not be bothered by the Ascians who are trying to wreck things.

So while that doesn't necessarily say that much about Zodiark or Hydaelyn, it does say a lot about the people who ally themselves with those entities. And one group of those people are a lot more evil then the other group is.

Until we get to talk to Zodiark himself, that's good enough for me. It's Zodiark's followers we interact with on a regular basis and not Zodiark himself as it is.

hydaelyn can say what she wants but untill we see and/or talk to zodiark im not taking her word for it especially as she is using minfillia as a puppet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kusanagi7

hydaelyn can say what she wants but untill we see and/or talk to zodiark im not taking her word for it especially as she is using minfillia as a puppet.

---

It was always Minfillia's choice through and through to serve Hydaelyn.

this reminds me of a series of scenes in the Wheel of time... Throughout the series it is taught that the "Dark one" like Zodiark is evil. We see a couple of scenes one where light prevails, but is no "life" to the people. They have no free will and only do the 'good' and then one where the Dark one prevails where evil and pain is rife. It leads Rand Al'thor to realise that the dark one was never evil, he was never an enemy, he was simply a representation of the carnal part of our natures and by banishing one or the other, would rob life of its will to choose.

I think that this is probably the same dynamic that Hydaelyn and Zodiark offer, there is still free choice because Zodiark is banished rather than destroyed. But effectively what needs to happen is not the absolute of the light or Darkness but a balance of the both. Elidibus represents this pretty well i would say, in earlier appearances.

The other parallel that WOT has is in that all the things the Dark one's minions did, all the evil they propagated was by their choice and never as a direct consequence of what the Dark one wanted. I wonder whether this is true of the Ascians also. Either way its a very interesting concept.

My personal hope is that Zodiark turns out to represent darkness, but is merely the counter to light as umbral is to astral an that Hydealyn is actually evil in her desire to suppress the darkness and cause the source and the shards to have an over abundance of light rather than the natural balance that should exist.

Referring to the most recent information, I find it difficult to believe "light" is all good, considering we're apparently going to be fighting "Sin Eaters" which I believe are the polar opposite of "Void Sent" that we have fought here and there so far.

Then there's "Innocence" which is apparently going to be a boss of some sort. While I'm unsure if Sin Eaters and Void Sent are independent of Hydaelyn and Zodiark, I think it's at least safe to say Light and Darkness are not "good" and "evil".

Hopefully we get to have some heart to heart with Zodiark in Shadowbringers like we've done with Hydaelyn. I don't think we can really come to any kind of a conclusion before then.

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Hydaelyn responsible for the influx of light pretty much screwed up the world we are going to?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Hydaelyn responsible for the influx of light pretty much screwed up the world we are going to?

---

No, that was the Warriors of Darkness. You can indirectly blame her, since they were fighting for her sake, but Hydaelyn's thing has always been granting agency to her children, to let them act as they will for what they think is best. Not to mention how weak she's gotten, how little power she has to act directly. She's hardly puppet-mastering the situation. It's why she sent Minfillia to the First: she failed to give proper guidance because of her weakness, so she gave them more direct assistance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

No, that was the Warriors of Darkness. You can indirectly blame her, since they were fighting for her sake, but Hydaelyn's thing has always been granting agency to her children, to let them act as they will for what they think is best. Not to mention how weak she's gotten, how little power she has to act directly. She's hardly puppet-mastering the situation. It's why she sent Minfillia to the First: she failed to give proper guidance because of her weakness, so she gave them more direct assistance.

---

Hmmm. Id say that makes alot of sense. My only question then would be, if she knew about how the First ended up why didnt she warn us earlier to keep the balance? Seems really odd that she'd "forget" or choose not to let us know that this is a possible outcome if we tip the scales to much in lights favor.
(Unless once again, she did warn us and I dont remember lol)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Hydaelyn responsible for the influx of light pretty much screwed up the world we are going to?

---

Not directly.

She provided the Echo to the Warriors of Light on the first. But it was a case of them besting Primals too often that kept tilting the world towards the light, until it became too much and caused the flood.

That is, as far as we know.

Given that the same thing has been happening on the Source since as far back as when the Allagans were still around and we're only now seeing some effects of being tilted towards light (As a result of the light on the First seeping into our world) it's possible that the actual cause of the Flood of Light might have been something intentional. Such as how the Flood of Darkness that consumed the Thirteenth was due to an Ascian's involvement trying to speed up the process of the Rejoining (Which then backfired and consumed the world...)

We'll have to see what the Shadowbringers story reveals. But suffice to say, Hydaelyn is not responsible for the Light.

From what we have seen in the game so far, Hydaelyn does not control and is not the source of Light and Zodiark does not control and is not the source of Darkness. What the Warrior of Light and the Ascians do does directly "cause" Light or Darkness to have more influence or become stronger. From the looks of things as they currently are, I'd say it's more a coincidence that Hydaelyn is on the "side" of Light and Zodiark is on the "side" of Darkness.

However, this seems to be what the expansion is going to be about mainly, so hopefully it will all get straightened out.

No. And, the ascians are dumb, overly edgy, and are a force of self-destruction lost in their personal darkness with little understanding or even attempts to understand the darkness inside of them, which in turn twist ted their bodies and minds just as they did to Solus, Mach, and the 13th shard. And the over aspection of light and dark creates a perpetually lack of fullfillment or the void in theory.

And, the battle between Hydalyn and Zodiark is most likely an internal struggle within itself in a thematic sense

I'm so disgusted with the story being "good = evil" "void = light" in Final Fantasy games. It is so shallow and boring. Please stop, SE. It was boring with Altana and Promathia, it was boring in Dissidia because Cosmos and Chaos are extremely boring characters, and the only good thing I can say about FFXIV's version of the "equality play" is that the Ascians are factually hurting and using people who don't deserve to be hurt or used, which at least gives the conflict some sense of tension. The navel-gazing path inward to equivalency between "giant space monster good" and "giant space monster bad" ends up making the entire story seem like a farce.

It's okay to have Zodiark be Lavos, Square-Enix. You know, Lavos, right? Maybe one of you working there has heard of him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

I'm so disgusted with the story being "good = evil" "void = light" in Final Fantasy games. It is so shallow and boring. Please stop, SE. It was boring with Altana and Promathia, it was boring in Dissidia because Cosmos and Chaos are extremely boring characters, and the only good thing I can say about FFXIV's version of the "equality play" is that the Ascians are factually hurting and using people who don't deserve to be hurt or used, which at least gives the conflict some sense of tension. The navel-gazing path inward to equivalency between "giant space monster good" and "giant space monster bad" ends up making the entire story seem like a farce.

It's okay to have Zodiark be Lavos, Square-Enix. You know, Lavos, right? Maybe one of you working there has heard of him.

---

I can only say from the games Ive played but FFX and X-2,FFXII,FFXIII thru LR and FF15 had nothing to do with Light vs dark. Dissidia NT had that initially but that quickly changed. They haven't done the light vs dark thing recently as far as I know.

Lavos the giant mindless space flea that isnt really evil to begin with? You mean like how we think Zodiark may actually be? Also you want zodiark to eat us?

I look at it this way. Both zodiark and crystal mom are evil. Too much of one and boom no one survives. What I glean from everyone's point of view including the emperor is that if all the shards are rejoined a new world will appear with both bad and good people in balance, some suffer and some don't. That's life. I also like to refute the idea "well killing millions is evil no matter what" and I would like to point out killing them now, gets it's over with and prevents more lives to be lost to the light and dark and the ends justify the means. It's like a trolley cart scenario. Death is inevitable, so I think the best way to go about it is to end it quickly and with certainty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mistyregions

I also like to refute the idea "well killing millions is evil no matter what" and I would like to point out killing them now, gets it's over with and prevents more lives to be lost to the light and dark and the ends justify the means. It's like a trolley cart scenario. Death is inevitable, so I think the best way to go about it is to end it quickly and with certainty.

---

Well...

The thing is...

Dark and Light overabundance isn't a certainty.

It's only thanks to the actions of people (Mostly the Ascians) that major imbalances have formed that lead to these things (With the First also having something to do with not dealing with Primals properly, just killing them doesn't solve the issue it merely removes the symptom)

Which is what Hydaelyn has chosen the WoL to counteract. Instead of letting the Ascians make all the dark they want and rejoin worlds or accidentally cause floods of darkness (Like on the Thirteenth) empower someone who can then go and balance things out so that these buttheads don't mass murder everyone and every world gets to live without being consumed by Light/Dark.

Honestly, I cant agree with the whole the ends justify the means with that Misty. We unfortunately have no idea what will happen to those millions of souls that die with the rejoining. For what little we do know, it could end up that once that life is dead they're completely gone since the Lifestream that they were used to changed completely then again it may not. Remember for thousands of years these calamities have been happening. I think for that portion of it, it's better to wait and see if we can find out as opposed to jumping the gun and saying hey yeah let all those deaths happen.

"Evil" is a point of view. From our perspective, Zodiark may or may not be evil; we know next to nothing about Him and have had no personal contact with Him. All we have is secondhand information coming from Hydaelyn (as "The Word of the Mother") and his agents (the Ascians).

Either way, from what we've been told Zodiark's resurrection will mean the end of mortal life as it's known... and the people of Hydaelyn happen to like mortal life as they know it, so that's reason enough to oppose His resurrection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Hydaelyn responsible for the influx of light pretty much screwed up the world we are going to?

---

Seemingly none of the crystals can keep their element at bay. Hydaelyn was not able to directly influence the first (she needed someone that went for her there) and we know that the void was created because of the mistake of an Ascian and they say that this was not helpful for Zodiark either which kinda hints that he also cant directly influence the realm thus need the Ascians to do that.

In the end the first might have had too much Light anyway which helped tip the balance way faster and since Hydaelyn was not even able to talk to us anymore for a time, because she was weak from protecting us, it makes sense that she could not just simply help them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mistyregions

I look at it this way. Both zodiark and crystal mom are evil. Too much of one and boom no one survives. What I glean from everyone's point of view including the emperor is that if all the shards are rejoined a new world will appear with both bad and good people in balance, some suffer and some don't. That's life. I also like to refute the idea "well killing millions is evil no matter what" and I would like to point out killing them now, gets it's over with and prevents more lives to be lost to the light and dark and the ends justify the means. It's like a trolley cart scenario. Death is inevitable, so I think the best way to go about it is to end it quickly and with certainty.

---

The mother crystal has not shown one part of being evil. She has used Minfilia but Minfilia still chose this and it was at a desperate time that only was created thanks to the actions of the Ascians. The emporer has no idea what will happen either. He only got the talk from Elidibus (or maybe Solus) and we cant really trust them. For all that can happen is that life wont exist anymore, and only beings like Ascians exit. Who is to say that a fully powered Hydaelyn could not just sent out fully powered emissaries to all shards and restrain any light that is overpowering them while people can simply live their life? Why would a new world be needed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mistyregions

Death is inevitable, so I think the best way to go about it is to end it quickly and with certainty.

---

Assuming by "death" you mean the destruction of the Source and the Shards, it inevitable, though? We have only the Ascians' word that the current situation is untenable, and they certainly are biased in their opinions. It could be the case that the Source and the Shards are a completely viable state of existence, just not the state of existence that the Ascians WANT.

As near as we can tell, ALL CASES of light/dark imbalance have arisen due to Ascian influence. As much as they claim to want to preserve the balance, both Floods involved Ascian activity. If the world is spiraling toward doom, it's because the Ascians are causing it, not because it's inevitable.

The Ascians want to return the world to its original state, and there's no guarantee that a "unified race" will arise as a result, no matter what Varis believes. It is in their interests to convince all concerned that the only way to save the world is to destroy it, and murder billions in the process. It's a tough sell, and I ain't buying it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

As near as we can tell, ALL CASES of light/dark imbalance have arisen due to Ascian influence.

---

This is not true, from what I've been able to find. Literally the first thing the WoD tell us when we meet them is this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arbert

But not all worlds hold Light and Dark in equal measure. In ours, the power of Light was greater by far.

---

From everything we can tell, none of the worlds/Shards have a balance between Light and Dark. However, it seems this doesn't seem to be that big of a deal until the Ascians started messing with things to cause Rejoinings/Calamities. It seems causing Rejoinings needs lots of Darkness, and when Igyorum tried to set up the 13th Shard to be Rejoinined, she increased the amount of Darkness in the Shard too quickly. Similarly, the Flood of Light was ultimately caused because there was an Ascian Overlord messing with things on the 1st Shard and letting Ascians do whatever they want is never a good idea.

Ironically, the people the most concerned with balance between light and darkness are the Ascians. And that's because they seem to need to upset the balance towards Darkness in such a way that while it doesn't cause a Flood, there is more Darkness and Chaos since that's what leads to a Calamity. So the Ascians can't afford to tip things too much in one direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

This is not true, from what I've been able to find. Literally the first thing the WoD tell us when we meet them is this.



From everything we can tell, none of the worlds/Shards have a balance between Light and Dark. However, it seems this doesn't seem to be that big of a deal until the Ascians started messing with things to cause Rejoinings/Calamities. It seems causing Rejoinings needs lots of Darkness, and when Igyorum tried to set up the 13th Shard to be Rejoinined, she increased the amount of Darkness in the Shard too quickly. Similarly, the Flood of Light was ultimately caused because there was an Ascian Overlord messing with things on the 1st Shard and letting Ascians do whatever they want is never a good idea.

Ironically, the people the most concerned with balance between light and darkness are the Ascians. And that's because they seem to need to upset the balance towards Darkness in such a way that while it doesn't cause a Flood, there is more Darkness and Chaos since that's what leads to a Calamity. So the Ascians can't afford to tip things too much in one direction.

---

Have the Ascians tried to, you know, not mess with Light vs Dark? At all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

This is not true, from what I've been able to find. Literally the first thing the WoD tell us when we meet them is this.

---

That doesn't change the thrust of my argument, that doom is not inevitable. (And, in fact, by "imbalance", I meant upset of the natural state of Dark/Light balance, not to imply that the two are necessarily equal.) Left on their own, the worlds might be perfectly stable. The only ones that have gone boom are ones Ascians have been messing around on.

The WoL are the agents of Hydaelyn, the Ascians are the agents of Zodiark. Just as there are numbers in the Ascians such as Elidibus who realize that there must be a balance between light and dark, so too does the WoD and soon the WoL. Both Ascians and WoL can bring a world to ruin through an extreme of light or dark.

It's far more likely that Zodiark is fairly reasonable in person just like Hydaelyn is, but the Ascians take his will too far and wish to establish their patron deity's utter dominance, just as the WoL does until they learn of the truth from the WoD.

The Light is not good and the Dark is not evil. They are simply two sides that must remain in balance.

My general summary is pretty much....not yet.

A plot point I think many people forget or outright ignore is that everything that happened is ultimately Hydaelyn’s fault, and all evidence points to this being the case. Hydaelyn CLAIMS Zodiark tried to usurp power, which would upset the balance. So in response to this, Hydaelyn somehow seals Zodiark—effectively her other half—away, which is what triggers the event that creates the 13 reflections. This CREATED the initial imbalance between the two.

Upon closer inspection, Hydaelyn’s actions seem to be both far less consistent and make far less since unless you consider it from a perspective of a cosmic horror trying to retain power. Mind you, by 2.0 there have been no less than 7 rejoinings. There is no way by this point Hydaelyn somehow remains unaware about how it work, or the dangers of imbalance. Yet it is never addressed.

In comparison, the Ascians: APPEAR to be carrying out the will of their deity, and do so with presumably far more information and knowledge than Hydaelyn offers us. The supposedly super-evil Zodiark has an emissary, whom at least ATTEMPTED communications and even gave us information we previously lacked about the balance. Despite the obviously terrible cost of lives it would take to trigger the rejoining, Zodiark’s end goal appears to be more in line with keeping balance than Hydaelyn has ever been (the only evidence to the contrary being the method of rejoining)

In comparison to that we get: Next to zero information and direction, up to and including things like not knowing Iceheart was a WoL until she dies, Hydaelyn making questionable decisions that make absolutely no sense such as randomly calling her most devout servant to her side because she was growing to weak to communicate (supposedly) only to be too weak to do so anyway and proofing until she conveniently found the strength to go and absorb a planet with the WoDs cake along, claiming she would save it (which she obviously did a shit job at or else 5.0 wouldn’t be happening). I just find it hard to believe that a being that was apparently powerful enough to seal her other half away lacks the strength to adequately assist her champions with keeping darkness at bay. We have yet to see Zodiark need to possess someone, or outright ignore his followers begging for help, or anything that lends to him being evil other than the brutal methods of his followers and his other half who is arguably more malicious saying so.

This sentiment is somewhat aided by the Omega storyline hard confirming that there are other planets with life besides dragons in the cosmos, meaning that Hydaelyn likely is not the only being like this.

TL;DR: Hydaelyn is far more suspicious when you objectively observe the actions (or perceived actions) of both Zodiark and Hydaelyn respectively. I could go on forever but this is disorganized and lengthy enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abigorium

I just find it hard to believe that a being that was apparently powerful enough to seal her other half away lacks the strength to adequately assist her champions with keeping darkness at bay. We have yet to see Zodiark need to possess someone, or outright ignore his followers begging for help, or anything that lends to him being evil other than the brutal methods of his followers and his other half who is arguably more malicious saying so.

---

To address this point, it's been very strongly implied in this game that Hydaelyn now is MUCH WEAKER than she used to be. The very act of sealing Zodiark likely took a lot out of her, and she's spent a lot of resources since opposing the Asicans. Protecting us from the Ultima spell at the end of 2.0 almost drained her completely, and she wasn't even able to talk to us again until she took Minfilia on as an Emissary. And she wasn't able to even do THAT without taking advantage of Y'shtola's spell to bring Minfilia into the Lifestream.

Hydaelyn has spent a lot of her resources over the millennia, trying and failing to protect her worlds from the Ascians. A popular fan theory is that the Twelve were all Warriors of Light of their era - twelve (thirteen) at once! In the present day, she can field only one or two (thankfully, one of those few is us); if so, Hydaelyn was likely a lot stronger back then. Draining her resources over time is very likely a deliberate strategy on the part of the Ascians; they likely acted much more slowly and subtly when Hydaelyn was at her strongest. Now, with Hydaelyn at her weakest, they are free to move much more boldly.

The fact that she does so by empowering mortals rather than by acting directly implies that something about the nature of her being prevents or discourages her from acting directly. It's not as though she has physical hands or limbs, and the rules of what she can and cannot do whether she is at full strength or not are unknown to us. The ability to overwhelm a being similar to herself existing in the same realm as herself does not necessarily translate to the ability to do anything she wants on the physical plane we're used to.

You’ve made a lot of good points, but none of them really address the suspect nature of Hydaelyn’s actions in my opinion—Minfillia being the greatest example of this because in hindsight she basically possessed her for a reason she FAILED to carry out (she supposedly possessed her so she could stay in communication with us and the not only failed to do so, apparently failed to do this with ALL of the WoLs at the same time. Even if we don’t count 1.0 canon where she was throwing out the echo enough for there to be an entire organization bigger than the 2.0 incarnation(the path of the twelve), there are still WoL besides THE WoL operating around the world(s), and Hydaelyn has done little to nothing to make them aware of and work with one another.

Even if we ignore that Hydaelyn ripping herself in half somehow weakens her and not her counterpart, it still doesn’t explain how she suddenly found the strength to go and help the first shard until she was directly confronted about the problem (remember EVERY SINGLE WoL has had SOME kind of interaction with Hydaelyn), and still appears to have failed to fix the problem, even if it turns out she has somehow delayed it. If this is the case, that opens an entirely new can of worms about the nature of Hydaelyn and Zodiark respectively.

In conclusion, until I see proof of otherwise I’m going to assume most of what we see of her is an act in some cosmic game of chess or something. Too many things that she has done appear (to me) to benefit Hydaelyn. Yet when the world(s) need her suddenly she lacks the strength.

This is not to say that Zodiark ISNT malicious as well, only that so far its actions seem far more in line with what a deity might do than Hydaelyn.

Well everything we've learned and experienced so far are from Hydaelyn's perspective. She gave us power to defeat her "nemesis", the way I see it this is probably another classic tale of 2 gods using mortal as their pawns to battle one another. We have to see in Shadowbringers, but for now, I would say no, Zodiark is not evil because we don't know the facts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghostwalking

Well everything we've learned and experienced so far are from Hydaelyn's perspective. She gave us power to defeat her "nemesis", the way I see it this is probably another classic tale of 2 gods using mortal as their pawns to battle one another. We have to see in Shadowbringers, but for now, I would say no, Zodiark is not evil because we don't know the facts.

---

Hydaelyn gave us power to stop the Ascians. I think we can all agree that the Ascians are bad people, simply due to their methods.

That the Ascians happened to be serving Zodiark is almost irrelevant. If Zodiark doesn't want us to oppose him, and he (as you imply) has any control over the Ascians, then he should just tell them to stop bothering us. Since he hasn't, this means he either approves of their actions (which makes him at least complicit in evil, if not actively encouraging it), or he is powerless to stop them, in which case our actions would still be the same, since all we want is for the Ascians to not kill our friends.