Are Lamia and Ananta related?

I'm just curious after noticing how similar some of them look:

https://i.imgur.com/qOejYqU.png

Basically, the one variant of Lamia, very much resembles the Ananta. Having the same tail, similar facial features and heck, even the same style of clothing.

The only major differences being the hands being more claw-like on Lamia and the "Hair" being more akin to a Cobra's hood.

Of course, the other Lamia seem much more aquatic in design. With more fish-like scales and a fin on the end of their tail with more fin-like facial/hood features.

Was this accidental or intentional?

Given that for the Fractal Continuum (Hard) we find out that [SPOILERS]

Ixal were failed Allagan experiments

Is something similar true for Ananta?

Or is it something else? Such as Allagans trying to recreate them? Or pure coincidence?

In FFXI, lamia and merrows were artificial creatures made by alchemists in Aht Urghan. The Lamia looked like the Lamia in the third picture there, the Merrows like the fourth picture there. They were in a place called Arrapago, the reefs of which closely resemble Sashtasha Hard in places, so were likely intended as references.

In FFXIV lore, they were created by Leviathan, by aspecting "drowned" humans he'd claimed with water aether.

The Ananta do closely resemble the Lamia, minus the cobra hood though. While it might just be a matter of re-used model, the fact that the Lamia in FFXI and FFXIV were both artificial creations, and so were the Ixal, means the theory has merit.

(More and more I wonder where the traditional beast tribes are in Shadowbringers. They have the fae, and lalafell-dwarves, but no sign of the others. Since the shards split 12,000 years ago, it seems to suggest strongly that most or all the beast tribes showed up later than that, even if the Empire did not make all of them,)

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Originally Posted by Eyvind

In FFXIV lore, they were created by Leviathan, by aspecting "drowned" humans he'd claimed with water aether.

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The Lamia are an Allagan created Chimera. They have nothing to do with leviathan.

The Ananta are said to have existed since the time of the Allagans. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that the Allagans experimented on them and others to create the Lamia.

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Originally Posted by UserHere

The Lamia are an Allagan created Chimera. They have nothing to do with leviathan.

The Ananta are said to have existed since the time of the Allagans. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that the Allagans experimented on them and others to create the Lamia.

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I think Lamia are created Chimera based on their origin: the Ananta. The Ananta may be the true form of the Lamia.

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Originally Posted by UserHere

The Lamia are an Allagan created Chimera. They have nothing to do with leviathan.

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This problem crops up a lot. After Satasha (Hard), a jellyfish man makes his way to Aleport and Ceana quickly assesses the deformities to be caused by "overaspecting" his aether through repeated temperings by Leviathan or something to that effect. Since Lamia also appear in Satasha (Hard) with naming conventions that'd make them to be the various women who'd previously appeared in Satasha--players assumed they must also be created the same way.

However, we have word-of-god from outside sources that this isn't the case. It's in-game deliberate misinformation, which the writers can be fond of using to sell a sort of realism. A farmer isn't going to know the land he's farming history back a few thousand years, and a scientist's first hypothesis is unlikely to be the answer to their problem.

Related interview fwiw:
https://gamerescape.com/2015/06/18/l...h-fernehalwes/

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The Ananta are said to have existed since the time of the Allagans. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that the Allagans experimented on them and others to create the Lamia.

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With very little to go on, I've always assumed the Lamia were born in a similar fashion to the Naga. Naga created from Allag experimenting on the possibilities of splicing and grafting voidsent flesh, and we've seen a sort of "void" lamia in beings like Echidna and Lilith--that the inspiration of Lamia might've been those beings instead. However, I do believe there's not enough information to definitively say one way or another!

Perhaps Lilith and Echidna are the Thirteenth's answer to our Ananta like Dwarves on the First being the answer to our Lalafell.

Given the origin of the Ixal I'm guessing that either the Ananta were created by the Allagans and descended from escaped Lamia, or the opposite, the Allagans made Lamia based off of Ananta test subjects. I don't think we really know 100% either way, but I'm guessing there's a link between the two.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

This problem crops up a lot. After Satasha (Hard), a jellyfish man makes his way to Aleport and Ceana quickly assesses the deformities to be caused by "overaspecting" his aether through repeated temperings by Leviathan or something to that effect. Since Lamia also appear in Satasha (Hard) with naming conventions that'd make them to be the various women who'd previously appeared in Satasha--players assumed they must also be created the same way.

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It probably doesn't help that there isn't actually a single female "Drowned" NPC.

Neither in Sastasha (Hard) nor in any of the FATEs in Western La Noscea that involve you culling a bunch of "Drowned" people.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

With very little to go on, I've always assumed the Lamia were born in a similar fashion to the Naga. Naga created from Allag experimenting on the possibilities of splicing and grafting voidsent flesh, and we've seen a sort of "void" lamia in beings like Echidna and Lilith--that the inspiration of Lamia might've been those beings instead. However, I do believe there's not enough information to definitively say one way or another!

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It's a possibility.

The Fractal Continuum does have a little plaque for the Naga stating that they are "Among the first successful efforts in synthesising a Voidsent" which suggests that there are some other synthetic Voidsent created by the Allagans.

However, it's hard to know which ones, as not all species appear in TFC (If I recall correctly, normal mode only has plaques for Mirrorknight (AKA Owlbear), Ixsalion (AKA Ixal), Shabti and the Naga.

It also has jars containing some weird looking snake thing. But unfortunately, it's plaque is buried under a bunch of rubble.

Especially when looking at the similarities between Lilith/Echidna to the Lamia:

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/images/7/7e/Lilith.png

Noting the same claw-like hands and similar tail.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Perhaps Lilith and Echidna are the Thirteenth's answer to our Ananta like Dwarves on the First being the answer to our Lalafell.

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Who knows...

It's hard to say about Voidsent mirroring our races, because many of the ones that look human-like, are well... Actually possessing humanoid bodies (Such as how the Succubi are inhabiting the bodies of deceased women, hence why they look like sexy ladies)

So it's not really possible to tell if Lilith/Echidna are manifestations of Thirteenth's Ananta, if they're merely Voidsent possessing the bodies of Ananta or if Ananta themselves are a byproduct of an Allagan experiment to recreate Lilith/Echidna in the form of the Lamia.

Also... What's the deal with the fishy Lamia too :confused: Unless that was an experiment with the Lamia to make them more... Aquatic for some reason?

I mentioned this in another thread recently, but the denizens of the Void are meant to be mutated in part due to Primal energies leaking from their Auracites?

Lilith/Echidna were perhaps the Thirteenths Heroes who were warped by a Leviathan-like Primal trapped in Auracite? Allag then take note, work on creating their own artificial version (Lamia). Fast forward a few Calamities, Leviathan accidentally goes and creates some more in Sastasha (Hard). Worth noting that the Naga enemies we encountered in Coil, and previously assumed to be chimera, have hard confirmation of being artificial Voidsent. They also often appeared alongside Lamia, but that's no hard confirmation that they're the same, but it's enough to make me question the assumption that Lamia are chimeras.

No clue where that puts Ananta, but the same boat as the Ixal is probably a good guess.

going by the lorebook (heck, this might've even been part of the lore blimps we got when the Ananta were first revealed) Lamia are artificial Chimera, created by the Allagans after experimenting on the Ananta

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

going by the lorebook (heck, this might've even been part of the lore blimps we got when the Ananta were first revealed) Lamia are artificial Chimera, created by the Allagans after experimenting on the Ananta

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Do you have a precise passage of the book I can look at? Because that sort of hard confirmation would be welcome, and I don't remember it whatsoever.

In the 2nd Lore book in their little part it says they're as old as the Allagan Empire, but if you read the Lakshmi they were made during a time where there was a lot of chaos and people were just trying to survive. So that points to some time after a cataclysm.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

In the 2nd Lore book in their little part it says they're as old as the Allagan Empire, but if you read the Lakshmi they were made during a time where there was a lot of chaos and people were just trying to survive. So that points to some time after a cataclysm.

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Possibly post Second Umbral Calamit then. I think the third calamity was the quake that wiped out the allagans right? Though chaotic doesn't necessarily mean calamity it could well be that.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Possibly post Second Umbral Calamit then. I think the third calamity was the quake that wiped out the allagans right? Though chaotic doesn't necessarily mean calamity it could well be that.

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The 2nd Calamity was the year-long super thunderstorm. The 3rd was the extreme heatwave/drought. The 4th was the great earthquake.

Yoshida said off-hand during the Stormblood fan fest panel that if you look at the Lamia you'll see that the Garleans weren't the first empire to cause the Ananta suffering, or something along those lines. But yes, the "Drowned Wenches" are a red herring (those Lamia just came from the broken Ragnarok from Coil 1) and the void ones are kind of an unknown for the time being but seem to be the "pure" form of whatever the Allagans were using voidsent-wise to make the Lamia and Naga (floating snake heads).