[dev1033] Job System - I'm going to try and make sure this doesnt sound like whining.

Ok, I want to start off by saying as I said in the title: I'm going to try not to whine.

Also, I would like to qualify this first by saying that I typically don't make comments in forums because as a developer, I have learned it is best not to read these things.

So the Job system has been a shining beacon of hope to me in this game. I give credit where credit is due, and realize this game has come a LONG way from where it was. However, (though I have not actually played the patch yet) I have some worries about the general direction it is going. Without getting in to specifics, as I realize specifics can be tweaked, I have been worrying about the implementation of the Job system for a while.

The truth is, that while there has been a lot of various hints of HOW the job system will actually work, it was not until dev1033 that I really understood the full direction. What worries me, is this:

Final Fantasy, MMO or otherwise, has always been a game that has separated itself from other series by providing a special brand of openness to a character's configurability. This was seen in FFXI as the general theme of the Aht Urghan Release was to provide characters which provided (especially in the case of BLU) the ability to really broaden your horizons with respect to how you wanted to play you character. While I realize there will always be people who will mathematically hone in to the 'Best' way to play a character, that never took from you your choices.

Because SE is choosing to use the Job system as a way to specialize your classes, I feel like expecting people to choose a specific job for Late/End-game play, really flies in the face of the concept of openness that has brought what success the series has had. I understand that there are some that really want to put a specific job to a person in a party, but I personally have never enjoyed the pigeon-holing of a person to a specific task. It was my sincere hope with this game that there would be new ways in which you could set up your character in order to make it more YOU.
http://www.datamasonry.com/FF7BLM.jpg
While removing openness and configurability gives way to enhancement in specific areas, I can honestly say it doesn't make me want to play the new Jobs. I honestly think that removing curing abilities from a BLM to make the point that they should be magic damage oriented isn't necessary. It FEELS a little bit like the government or overprotective parents telling you how to raise your children.

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"Young man, you grew up in a Thaumaturge house-hold, now you will be a full on Magic Attack BLM when you get your class-change and use your archer abilities!"

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http://www.datamasonry.com/BLMfatherson.jpg

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"But dad, I LIKE being able to raise and cure people in between... why can't I just use the abilities I want to use? It's my life!"

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"You see? This is the kind of nonsense you get from hanging out with that Conjuror friend of yours!... We should have been Gladiators! I bet THEIR children don't try and become Pugilists!"

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http://www.datamasonry.com/unemploymentbartz.jpg
Also, why is it necessary to both restrict the abilities you use AND reduce the number you can equip? If you want to take all of the possibilities out of our hands, why not just make PLD a job in which you can't change anything at all? With so little choice at our disposal, and with such a keen mind to what you SPECIFICALLY want people to be doing... why not just say when you are a PLD you get these X abilities. In a very real way that is what is happening anyway.

I fully plan on trying it out before I make any final judgments, and I like to think I am generally even-handed on things. Half my job is UI/UX development, so you kind of have to be. However, I think FFXIV has a real opportunity here. If they want this game to come back around, I think that embracing the openness of the game system's possibilities is a better long-term strategy. Rather than trying to see the best way to give someone a specific job in a party, how about we put the effort (no matter how difficult) to make a plethora of equally usable abilities in abundance which allow people to choose how they want to play. In the end, people will come to their own "best-course" strategy as they always have, but the building of your character is a large part of what makes it all fun. It is the last bit of RPG in MMORPG, shouldn't we try and embrace that concept before we lose it all together?

1. Jobs are not required, you can play classes if you choose.

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* Class-specific gear, which is also scheduled to be introduced in the future, cannot be equipped by job-switched characters.

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This is SE pretty much saying that classes are planned to still be viable choices.

2. They will release more jobs at and after 2.0 so you can choose whatever job you want. Pre 2.0 is really just a test for features that will be in 2.0. I guess you could say we're in beta for 2.0. That doesn't mean the game isn't good, just means we don't have everything yet.

People whined about no class/job uniqueness. Well, there you go.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

People whined about no class/job uniqueness. Well, there you go.

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People also whine about all the whining and even make new threads about whining.

I guess that doesnt really change the fact that I dont see a full purpose to the Job system in general if they are to be used as a viable ALTERNATIVE to classes then... so Is this to mean that I would play THM most of the time then go full BLM when we specifically need it? That seems like a lot of effort in to a system that then does not really need to exist.

Not all games in the series have had systems where you can fully customize your characters.

Did you play this game since launch? At the start barely any abilities were exclusive but it led to everybody using the exact same abilities and some classes being completely overshadowed because other classes made better use of their abilities. Since this is just the beginning it may seem really restrictive, but having controlled choice allows for better balance in content and among classes. With the information now available on jobs, people are already recognizing situations where Classes would be better instead of Jobs and vice-versa. As we get more classes and existing classes get new jobs tied to them for branching specializations, the customization options will open up significantly.

This system gives different types of players with different playstyles ways to enjoy the game. Soloists and those that like lowman parties can play with Classes whereas those in tougher, large group events will take advantage of Jobs that would be at a significant disadvantage solo or in small groups.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Not all games in the series have had systems where you can fully customize your characters.

Did you play this game since launch? At the start barely any abilities were exclusive but it led to everybody using the exact same abilities and some classes being

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Not all, but most of the really well recieved ones were.

I have been, yes. But I don't think the customizability was really at fault here. It was the fact that while you could add whatever abilities you wanted (something I enjoyed) but was that certain abilities were simply better than others. I understand the need to create a base set of classes that enforce a basic set of abilities(e.g. White Mages should be better at curing than other classes). However, this move just seems TOO restrictive.There is no real reason why we can't just make a Conjuror in to a White Mage if the WHM abilities themselves are all about increasing Healing potency, etc(which is likely what it is anyway). However, arbitrarily restricting the sub abilities you can add to only a few is not much better than just giving you a specific set of unchangeable abilities. It seems like a better approach would be to make "class-changes" Happen.

Telling someone playing a WHM that they can't equip a few attack spells from THM on top of their obvious use as a curing powerhouse seems a bit arbitrary.

I think they added this so they could deal with the inevitability of people having a hard time with the transition of the current classes to the jobs that match up given that the spell distribution is so odd between CNJ and THM.

I totally agree with OP. He had some very valid points regarding job system there...

Many have said, you don't have to run as a job. The THM does not nuke badly, the BLM just does it better and he should because it is all he can do. If you want to be a THM/CNJ, by all means do so. I know I wouldn't turn you away from a party because you like more flexibility in a fight. Nothing is wrong with an archer staying an archer b/c he wants all the damage increasing cross skills. A bard as no access to any melee cross skills, so if you DPS is good who cares? Jobs are an optional specializations, you equip one knowing you are going to be the created role. This doesn't mean classes are not just fine in groups.

Jobs have unique and powerful abilities... but they are not required. Some of skill combo are only able to be done as classes. For example, Sanguine Rite + Scared Prism can only be done as a THM. Sanguine Rite as a THM does an awesome damage reduction and with Scared Prism you get the whole party with it. Only the THM can do that, not BLM. CNJ can have Resonance, that is extremely useful as a healer... WHM can't do that though. You see my point. Classes still have value and unique skill combo only they can do.

Play the way you want.

If what Klive said really happen it would be so good...but we already saw this movie a million times. Once jobs come out it will be "use job or gtfo".

While you're correct the way jobs were planned to be, it will hardly be the way players will play. Just look at forum...ppl is already asking the dev team to restrict endgame to jobs only...think they will accept someone using class there? They won't. It will be just like FFXI because you just need one prick to start discriminating classes to soon enough you having this as common sense.

While i also agree with your post, i doubt this will happen. IMO OP has a way more "realistic" post about jobs.

in worst case senario i plan just to stay class and only job change for cutscenes to look badass.

So apparently i'm not the only one to see the issues currently in game. I drew up a system reform suggestion that I think would greatly broaden prospects for the game. I would appreciate constructive feedback on it. The thread is here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...567#post595567

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

in worst case senario i plan just to stay class and only job change for cutscenes to look badass.

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You know what the sad part is? I LIKE playing the jobs. What I miss most about FFXI is that I have always enjoyed BEING a Paladin or BEING a Dragoon, but because of the way the jobs have played out, I dont really play the jobs and only the places. I feel kinda sharked that I have to play a GLD... so... you know I do so and just PRETEND im a PLD :p

Okay, for Solo SE made classes, for Parties made Jobs, get it? good.

I think you made some great points, Colvin.

What I dislike the most is the move to generic attack spells split between THM and CNJ now. I LIKED the unusual casting abilities of original THM, which are basically all gone now. CNJ does not make sense now. It was supposed to be an elementalist class... instead it is an earth user with some crippled wind abilities (Stonera level 22, Aerora level -42-. WHAT!?). But they had to weaken it offensively to force it into the White Mage niche.

The elemental weakness system is just abandoned now. Spells do whatever. Thunder? Standard attack. Fire? Area of effect! Why? It is -strange- to do this. And I am severely displeased to see Water element just... GONE. It is gone. We cannot use Water against enemies weak against it.

We have lost most of our DoT spells, our Drain spells, Light and Dark elements, the choice to allocate points into the elements of our choice, and altogether a large part of our previous class diversity.

My friend says this is a temporarily solution to hold out until 2.0. I hope so, because the sudden changes to the class system seem like a desperate move to give up on an original system and flee into more familiar territory.