Will People still use the classes within the prime fights?

what i was questioning myself..
the new jobs will only be able to equip skills from two defined specific classes (for BLM it is pug and archer)


Will people switch to the jobs within these primal fights?

Because they are unable to equip for example "Sentinel" which is by many people called a "must" in these fights. BLM wont have more defense or HP than THM nor any of the jobs will have an overpowered "protection skill" for the group. so the BLM will knocked out after the special attack from each primal without sentinel?

i think so or so its a pitty that you need one skill of a class as a must to be alive after an attack.
they need to reduce the effect of sentinel havely and on the other side reduce a bit of the special attack damage from the primes. otherwise i see bad times for the new jobs.

correct me if i'm wrong. hum. its just theory

The beauty of this is it lets us mix and match within fights. We won't need to go all 8 jobs or all 8 classes.

For a random Ifrit you could have
1PLD
2whm
2blm
1thm (for i whms go down, will be able to cure and raise)

any other combo of dd classes/jobs for last 2 spots depending on what you need: people die a lot? classes for raises! self cures a problem? classes for second wind (if the job doesnt give them access to it) otherwise if they're all doing their spots, go for jobs and specialise

Thm has a beefed up Sanguine Rite which acts like Sentinel. Blm will have all Thm skills and traits.
You can kill 3 Inferno Nails and not even be full HP and survive without either of those abilities.

Non-issue.

Should make it so you not allow to enter 8 man event without jobs it only make sense the reason stuff are hard is due to the fact that you need the jobs but i know that wont happen but w/e i go DRG vs Lancer any day.

Dont forget PLD can learn an aoe type of sentinel. I doubt that will be a bad thing, lol.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Dont forget PLD can learn an aoe type of sentinel. I doubt that will be a bad thing, lol.

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This.

A lot of THMs also forget that Sanguine Rite gives them damage reduction when used as a THM/Black Mage.
White Mage has access to Gladiator abilities and thus Sentinel.

If anyone ends up having an issue surviving Hellfire or Memento Moogle, my bets are on it being the Bard.

Some groups will choose to take the old classes in and others will choose to make new tactics for the new jobs. We'll see a lot of experimentation and a lot depends obviously on the scale of some of the abilities. An example would be monk, it could be either useless or excellent in Ifrit dependent on how much evasion and wind damage it get from fists of wind.

We don't know if BLM may have higher magic resistance though.

I have on a few occasions popped sentinel too early as a THM and still survived, just make sure stoneskin is up and you are fully healed.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

We don't know if BLM may have higher magic resistance though.

I have on a few occasions popped sentinel too early as a THM and still survived, just make sure stoneskin is up and you are fully healed.

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You think it will?
SE seems like they just said "To hell with Elemental (Magic) resistence" didn't they?

I survive hellfire without sentinel because my GLA is still 14... on every class I've played in the battle (LNC, CNJ, THM, and ARC once for shits and giggles). It really is a nonissue.

it's going to depend on what the jobs and classes are like after the patch to be honest. the competative type ls's are going to use whatever combination that clears content the fastest. it will be just like the stacking of thm's in ifrit or stacking archers in moogle. whatever clears content the fastest with the smallest amount of issues is what people are going to do.

i, for one, can care less about playing in a job only party. i'm going with whatever combination that helps me complete content. if it's all jobs i'll go that route, if it's combinations of jobs and parties that's fine, but if it's all classes i'm fine with that as well.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

You think it will?

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LOL probably not :(

It's possible. We'll have to wait for jobs to see how beneficial they are without sentinel in the primal fights. I could see parties going in there with PLD, WHMs, a BLM, a BRD and some people on classes as a very real possibility.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL probably not :(

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God it would be nice if it did...
And honestly.. it would make a lot of sense to me if BLM had higher elemental resistences

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

It's possible. We'll have to wait for jobs to see how beneficial they are without sentinel in the primal fights. I could see parties going in there with PLD, WHMs, a BLM, a BRD and some people on classes as a very real possibility.

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true... like you said without actually playing it so we can't say 100% but PLD just seems like a sure bet....
even solo I wouldn't go GLD

I don't want people to think thats a complaint on my part though... I don't mind going all PLD and no more GLA.... the AF looks sweet

i would use blm for ifrit just for convert, doing in on thm was tough due to MP conservation....

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Originally Posted by GabbaGabba

i would use blm for ifrit just for convert, doing in on thm was tough due to MP conservation....

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thm was quite fine before with mp. all you did was got to red and stop until you went back down and by the time you did that you were close to full. with bard in game with his mp refresh it will be even easier in mp management category.

i spent close to half my time in the fights standing around. it wasn't because of low mp it was because of being in constant state of red on the hate bar.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

thm was quite fine before with mp. all you did was got to red and stop until you went back down and by the time you did that you were close to full. with bard in game with his mp refresh it will be even easier in mp management category.

i spent close to half my time in the fights standing around. it wasn't because of low mp it was because of being in constant state of red on the hate bar.

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I can verify this... Ifrit HATES Darkstar

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I can verify this... Ifrit HATES Darkstar

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i'd hate someone that hit me harder and more often than the rest of the party as well.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

thm was quite fine before with mp. all you did was got to red and stop until you went back down and by the time you did that you were close to full. with bard in game with his mp refresh it will be even easier in mp management category.

i spent close to half my time in the fights standing around. it wasn't because of low mp it was because of being in constant state of red on the hate bar.

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With a really good tank, it is possible to have MP issues on Ifrit. But like you said, I had to be over 35+ DPS to start having real MP problems.

Magic accuracy also plays a big role since a lot of MP is wasted if some spells get resisted and they do not generate as much hate.

The only logical situation I could see for me is SE wants to be dumb (again) this patch and make ridiculous AoE damage on bosses so ARC will still be useful over some melee jobs.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

With a really good tank, it is possible to have MP issues on Ifrit. But like you said, I had to be over 35+ DPS to start having real MP problems.

Magic accuracy also plays a big role since a lot of MP is wasted if some spells get resisted and they do not generate as much hate.

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It makes you think though... BLM will do more damage (in theory) but THMs are already limited in how much damage they can do, based off of hate

So how much more damage can you do?

One of the BLM abilities should have been the Black mage equivalent to shroud of saints....
Maybe call it Umbral Veil?

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Originally Posted by Chinook

With a really good tank, it is possible to have MP issues on Ifrit. But like you said, I had to be over 35+ DPS to start having real MP problems.

Magic accuracy also plays a big role since a lot of MP is wasted if some spells get resisted and they do not generate as much hate.

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well that leaves alot of room for error there. what i will say is a tank is only as good as being able to make use of their abilities to maximum efficiency. each ability is given a certain number of points per ability on the hate gauge. a good tank can be considered anything from 80-100% effectively being able to get the max points they could get or you could only count a good tank as one that can be 100% efficient.

i've had some good and some really bad tanks. there's only 3 tanks that i will even join a party with on my server. those 3 can make me actually work to get into the red. the problem is it's not just the tank you have to worry about because if you are drastically out damaging the other party members you drop slowly back down the hate gauge. it makes me really miss the good days of accomplice.

edit: like you pointed out though. you have to get to roughly 35+ dps to start noticing mp issues now. how much would you have to boost that dps to start seeing issues with bard giving mp refresh? that's what i was getting at. if thm's are already having to limit themselves due to grabbing hate and you have to do massive amounts of damage to pull hate then with a better tank(pld) and mp refresh will it finally break the limits that thm could push or would thm still have to limit itself? if it does still have to limit itself then blm is not an upgrade, but more of a lateral move.

this is part of why i am so ready to get the jobs in my hands though. it's questions i am ready to answer, but i cannot answer any questions or speculation until the patch hits.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

well that leaves alot of room for error there. what i will say is a tank is only as good as being able to make use of their abilities to maximum efficiency. each ability is given a certain number of points per ability on the hate gauge. a good tank can be considered anything from 80-100% effectively being able to get the max points they could get or you could only count a good tank as one that can be 100% efficient.

i've had some good and some really bad tanks. there's only 3 tanks that i will even join a party with on my server. those 3 can make me actually work to get into the red. the problem is it's not just the tank you have to worry about because if you are drastically out damaging the other party members you drop slowly back down the hate gauge. it makes me really miss the good days of accomplice.

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Oh God... I use to accomplice you so good... I remember accomplicing the hell out of you all over Ifrits little fire pit...
And that one time I accompliced you on the kitchen tab... errr... nevermind

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Oh God... I use to accomplice you so good... I remember accomplicing the hell out of you all over Ifrits little fire pit...
And that one time I accompliced you on the kitchen tab... errr... nevermind

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i was more looking at the lancer stacked parties. would have 4 lancers, but the same person had to be accompliced almost constantly because they were such a much higher damage machine than the others. it's still the same thing with the thm parties in that one will do twice as much damage compared to the others due to in fight factors, but there is no let's pull some hate off of them abilities.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

It makes you think though... BLM will do more damage (in theory) but THMs are already limited in how much damage they can do, based off of hate

So how much more damage can you do?

One of the BLM abilities should have been the Black mage equivalent to shroud of saints....
Maybe call it Umbral Veil?

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Hehe yeah ... tanks will have to work harder ! Sadly, the new Paladin abilities do not seem to be massive hate generators (could be wrong) ... at least
they still have Sacred Prism to AOE cure.

Double and triple meld a belt with -enmity on it? If you're having hate problems and don't have a -enmity belt you're probably doing it wrong. If you're struggling with hate an extra 50-150 MP from belt melding isn't going to help you much. Would be better to just not get as much hate than to add a tiny bit more HP. The Tank should have plenty of +enmity on their belt. Even if they don't -enmity on yours will do you a lot of good.

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Originally Posted by MakaiOokami

Double and triple meld a belt with -enmity on it? If you're having hate problems and don't have a -enmity belt you're probably doing it wrong. If you're struggling with hate an extra 50-150 MP from belt melding isn't going to help you much. Would be better to just not get as much hate than to add a tiny bit more HP. The Tank should have plenty of +enmity on their belt. Even if they don't -enmity on yours will do you a lot of good.

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double slotted max - enimity on my belt already. in fact every piece of gear i have for the 4 classes i play(thm, cnj, lnc, arc)are double slotted. i haven't gotten around to pug, gla, or mrd yet on my double slotted gear because i rarely play those. actually i take that back my wand of tides hq only has single healers hand iv on it, but the rest of that gear is double slotted.

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Originally Posted by MakaiOokami

Double and triple meld a belt with -enmity on it? If you're having hate problems and don't have a -enmity belt you're probably doing it wrong. If you're struggling with hate an extra 50-150 MP from belt melding isn't going to help you much. Would be better to just not get as much hate than to add a tiny bit more HP. The Tank should have plenty of +enmity on their belt. Even if they don't -enmity on yours will do you a lot of good.

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because enmity materia makes a huge difference?

Just taking a shot in the dark but my gut tells me that the optimal party setups will consist of PLD WHM BRD and either x5 BLM or x5 ARC depending on the mob's weakness. I say ARC instead of BRD because I don't view BRD as a DD really and ARC has much more cross-class abilities at their disposal.

People will yet again complain how classes and now jobs are unbalanced, but it's because they choose to follow the strategies of others instead of forming their own. Same old story all over again.

This is all of course assuming these new fights will have AoEs, which they most likely will. As far as current content goes, I still see 5x BLM for Ifrit and 5-6 ARC for Moogles as the norm.