Revamping the Novice guild's tutorial system

I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed how lacking the tutorial system is for the novice guild

Sure it teaches you the basic job of each of the three roles but that's about it

It doesn't teach the player universal mechanics that became a stable from heavensward onward

I'm not saying it should include boss-exclusive mechanic markers but it was never updated to include the basic ones u encounter in dungeons and trials like the split-damage stack marker or the prey marker or the red aoe targeting marker or the proximity aoe marker(this one in particular was introduced in the pretorium when u fight ultima weapon).Those are basic stuff that u encounter everywhere not just ex-trials or savage raids.Heck u even find it in the recent Level 50 FFXV event battle with Garuda

I have encountered a good number of players on both thordan and nidhogg(final steps of faith) that didn't know what the stack marker is until they were blasted off the earth with an akh morn

Sure the easy answer one might say is "they should look it up" but that isn't a good design to have the basics of reoccuring universal mechanics not being told through the game's own in-tutorial system that should be updated with every expansion in case they introduce more in shadowbringers onward. Again those aren't ex-primals/savage mechanics only.Those are basic mechanics u find in dungeons,trials,normal raids,fates,hunts and even Notorious Monsters in Eureka

Oh and for the record: I didn't struggle with those personally since I was watching XIV livestreams from a youtuber I watch a whole year before I started playing. That doesn't mean by any means the resources for basic mechanics should be just skimmed over in-game just because "people posted those on youtube"

It would be cool if there were further lessons as you level up. However, I think a lot of people ignore the Novice guild.

I'm pretty sure that don't stand in the giant marker that just appeared on the ground is universal MMO talk for it will hurt. And most people can't even learn that much.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

It would be cool if there were further lessons as you level up. However, I think a lot of people ignore the Novice guild.

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If they ignore it then that's on them since as soon as u find the novice guild in la noscea u get this giant notification of novice tutorials about the role you are currently playing.

The point is it needs to be there as an in-game resource for people to seek,learn and be prepared for their journey to avoid struggling and dying to said mechanics.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

It would be cool if there were further lessons as you level up. However, I think a lot of people ignore the Novice guild.

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It should be a mandatory quest to unlock progression in the game. But at the same time should teach about things not directly related to combat that the game has.

Hall of the Novice, as we have it now, unlocks the DF system in general, allowing you to progress your MSQ into Sastasha.

Hall of the Intermediate, level 30, job only, no classes allowed. Teaches a bit more into things. Shows off sight based mechanics, how you can just turn to avoid them without needing to run out the AOEs. This could also be an optimal place to teach players how gearsets work, though I don't know how well you could implement that into an instance. The player may not have other classes and such yet.

Hall of the Expert, shows newer common mechanics, such as stack mechanics, distances based damage mechanics, tank swaps. Oh man tank swaps. Make that AI tank require Shirk too. Would be required to progress anywhere after Ultima in ARR. Could also teach players about undersized party options and such.


Will people even remember these things once they hit a duty that requires it? No probably not. But at least it would be there.

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

I'm pretty sure that don't stand in the giant marker that just appeared on the ground is universal MMO talk for it will hurt. And most people can't even learn that much.

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I don't mean the normal yellow aoe markers cuz u see those as soon as u step out to the wilderness of your starting nation in-game

I mean those that appear on the player themselves which i mentioned earlier

I do wish that they would forcibly put people who use a job potion at the Novice Guild. It logs you out essentially and they already have tools in place from questlines to move the player's avatar from one zone to another. I'd be nice if players who use the skips were put there as an extra sorta 'hey, here's this place, you might want to check it out' sort of deal. Or, honestly, make the novice guild required before even going into Sastasha for those who don't skip. Yes it's right there before the dungeon, but it's also very easy to bypass and subsequently ignore.

Beyond that I do agree and want further lessons as well, and very much agree that the current round of markers used in raids should apply. Yes they do have MSQ instances that employ them now and tell you what to do, but they're all in the 60-70 range, well after the player has already encountered these mechanics and likely died to them to begin with.

The way i hear it, the novice network is doing it's job just fine thanks to all those helpful mentors.

Har har har.

I'm sorry, that was snarky of me.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Or, honestly, make the novice network

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Novice network to get people to learn?

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA

They've mentioned (in a off-hand maybe, heard/thinking about, sort of way) intermediate/advanced Guild so I think it would be pretty cool to touch up on things to make the whole process smooth (update to some changes to the game, polish, less overlap, strong hand off between the two systems).

One of the things I wish was that it was smoother experience from one to the next task. The whole going in and out a bunch for really similar tasks made me worry "how many more of these are there to go?" (was doing it just for the item).

If perhaps it was one dungeon that you could talk to the NPC to move to the next area or leave then you could smoothly go from many tasks? Each check point unlocks in the guide a new starting spot so you could do task 1-5 in a row without loading screens and then come back for 6-10 later without having to redo 1-5. Anything to reduce the amount of clicking to get in and out and queue and stuff that makes it feel a bit disjointed. Of course I agree teaching the symbols is important and helpful :), perhaps just make sure they're being taught in the place they're being used (like if you teach all symbols in the first tutorial but the first time they'll see stack is level 50 then its like.. eh.. why did you dump me with that? lol).

Especially if they add more tutorials it'd be nice if the game recommended them at the proper points. Congrats on reaching level X, there is a new tutorial for you!

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

Novice network to get people to learn?

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA

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That was a derp on my part. I meant to say the novice guild. Apologies it's been a long day. xD

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Hall of the Novice, as we have it now, unlocks the DF system in general, allowing you to progress your MSQ into Sastasha.

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Are you sure? I see plenty of people in dungeons who don't seem to know what it is and don't have the gear from it. IIRC you have to talk to the smith, but I don't think you have to actually do it. Great! do I have to roll another character to confirm this? :D

I cannot help and wonder if the whole Novice/Mentor system would even be missed if it just one day disappeared mysteriously.

We didn't start the game with it, we all seemed to get by just fine by playing the game and passively learning, making mistakes, and adjusting.

Heck, Megaman X has possibly one of the best tutorials in gaming history by sneaking in all of the learning instances into... well.. ...playing the game.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

It would be cool if there were further lessons as you level up. However, I think a lot of people ignore the Novice guild.

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Like a lot of things, it's introduced to the player at a time they can't make use of it and never mentioned again when they can so they forget it exists.

Definitely agree there need to be further lessons and not just later on for introducing mechanics.

Enmity - anyone not familiar with MMOs and the Holy Trinity is going to need help understanding this as a basic game mechanic. It doesn't help that you have to specifically enable the enmity bar in the party frame - why would you enable something when you don't understand its purpose? This needs to be introduced before doing the first dungeon. There needs to be a follow up lesson when jobs start getting their enmity reduction abilities.

Limit Break - if you are new to Final Fantasy games, Limit Break is a mystery. I can remember when I was first leveling and people in dungeons would tell me to lb. lb? What's that? I'm looking and my skills and abilities but my job has nothing with the initials lb. Eventually someone was kind enough to explain it to me. I had no idea that Limit Break existed until that point because it only gets a vague one sentence mention in Active Help when you do your first dungeon - and the last thing you're going to do at that point is waste time thoroughly reading the Active Help window as the rest of the group has already run off to kill stuff. Even if you do read it, the sentence is something like "Limit Break is a powerful ability shared by the group that can be used to help defeat more difficult monsters".

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

I cannot help and wonder if the whole Novice/Mentor system would even be missed if it just one day disappeared mysteriously.

We didn't start the game with it, we all seemed to get by just fine by playing the game and passively learning, making mistakes, and adjusting.

Heck, Megaman X has possibly one of the best tutorials in gaming history by sneaking in all of the learning instances into... well.. ...playing the game.

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Well Megaman X is an offline action platformer.Sure it had an excellent tutorial stage but there is a huge difference between teaching people in a platformer compared to a MMORPG