Devs, can we please have a response?

You've heard our feedback and we understand you're overwhelmed with the release of 5.0. Can we please just hear any updates in regards to adding the missing genders, please? Any new response will suffice. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

You've heard our feedback and we understand you're overwhelmed with the release of 5.0. Can we please just hear any updates in regards to adding the missing genders, please? Any new response will suffice. Thank you.

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The response was "they will look into it"

You aren't going to hear anything definitive for quite awhile, like, fanfest 2020.

Also, threads with vague titles will not get much attention, from the forums users and especially the devs. If they respond to anything it will be the large threads already started.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The response was "they will look into it"

You aren't going to hear anything definitive for quite awhile, like, fanfest 2020.

Also, threads with vague titles will not get much attention, from the forums and especially the devs. If they respond to anything it will be the large threads already started.

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Everyone keeps saying it wont be for a while. How exactly do you know? Where do you get your facts from? You're just speculating based on no facts at all. There have been many substantially sized threads with many responses from players. And I'm requesting an update from that last response of "we'll look into it." Yoshi said if we receive enough feedback so I'm just requesting an update.

patients is key
dont mind them taking there time for a response so it isnt half assed

They won't make an official response anytime soon. They learned their lesson on how bad some people react if they didn't get what they want after they overhype themselves. So they're not gonna announce something that they haven't even started yet till they're almost done from it.

Things we KNOW:
They didn't originally plan to have alt genders for the 2 new races.
Implementing them will require substantial development and implementation. (As would any new "unique" bodies/models)
The last thing we were told, relatively recently, was "we were surprised with the reaction and are monitoring the response. Implementing further genders is a possibility"
This team takes a LONG time to implement fan requests.


Based on all that? .. hold on. At least 2 months for any info at all.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Things we KNOW:
They didn't originally plan to have alt genders for the 2 new races.
Implementing them will require substantial development and implementation. (As would any new "unique" bodies/models)
The last thing we were told, relatively recently, was "we were surprised with the reaction and are monitoring the response. Implementing further genders is a possibility"
This team takes a LONG time to implement fan requests.


Based on all that? .. hold on. At least 2 months for any info at all.

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They did originally plan to have both genders. They created concept art for male viera. Early plans, but still plans. Now whether they created models for them or not, who knows. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It would make more sense that they did make male viera models and presented them for Yoshi or whoever made the decision to say, "no, let's do an all male Hrothgar race instead." Again, until we hear from the devs, it's all speculation. And, I don't know why they were surprised about the reaction, given the fiasco of genderlocking Roe and Miquote in 1.0.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

They did originally plan to have both genders. They created concept art for male viera. Early plans, but still plans. Now whether they created models for them or not, who knows. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It would make more sense that they did make male viera models and presented them for Yoshi or whoever made the decision to say, "no, let's do an all male Hrothgar race instead." Again, until we hear from the devs, it's all speculation. And, I don't know why they were surprised about the reaction, given the fiasco of genderlocking Roe and Miquote in 1.0.

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other way round
male and female hrothgar was the plan but went well people want viera so male hrothgar and female viera happen

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

They did originally plan to have both genders. They created concept art for male viera. Early plans, but still plans. Now whether they created models for them or not, who knows. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It would make more sense that they did make male viera models and presented them for Yoshi or whoever made the decision to say, "no, let's do an all male Hrothgar race instead."

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I would make very little sense for them to do any significant investment in Male viera beyond concept art or mock-up models until the OK was given. No we don't know for sure but I can say it's highly unlikely from what I know about game development.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

And, I don't know why they were surprised about the reaction, given the fiasco of genderlocking Roe and Miquote in 1.0.

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Doesn't matter why.. but they were. Which implies little to no investment in the chance that they'd implement them.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

They did originally plan to have both genders. They created concept art for male viera. Early plans, but still plans. Now whether they created models for them or not, who knows. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It would make more sense that they did make male viera models and presented them for Yoshi or whoever made the decision to say, "no, let's do an all male Hrothgar race instead." Again, until we hear from the devs, it's all speculation. And, I don't know why they were surprised about the reaction, given the fiasco of genderlocking Roe and Miquote in 1.0.

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Was there a fiasco? I certainly don't remember people being near as upset.

They already responded to it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I would make very little sense for them to do any significant investment in Male viera beyond concept art or mock-up models until the OK was given. No we don't know for sure but I can say it's highly unlikely from what I know about game development.



Doesn't matter why.. but they were. Which implies little to no investment in the chance that they'd implement them.

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Regardless of how we ended up where we are, or what decisions were made to get here. Whether they made good business decisions or no decisions at all on mock-ups or lack there of, I'm just requesting feedback from the devs.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Was there a fiasco? I certainly don't remember people being near as upset.

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I was so upset I put one of my socks on outside-in and my foot felt smooshy all day...

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

It would make more sense that they did make male viera models and presented them for Yoshi or whoever made the decision to say, "no, let's do an all male Hrothgar race instead."

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No it wouldn't. Making models for races consumes resources. They always start with concept arts and when approved they take it a step further into the actual 3d modeling part (take a look at Zenos concept arts). They don't make the 3d models and then wait for the approval after they wasted their time making them.

And speculations based on previous events hold more weight than speculations that contradict those events.

They have already answered these questions in countless interviews. I recommend Mr Happy's, it's probably the most exhaustive:

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

Regardless of how we ended up where we are, or what decisions were made to get here. Whether they made good business decisions or no decisions at all on mock-ups or lack there of, I'm just requesting feedback from the devs.

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I personally hope they don't waste any more time with the constant nagging I've seen about this topic. I want to hear about 5.0 and the things they've already spent time on and how the game is actually changing.
Everything is content, truly, but this "give us blahblah gender for blahblah" , I feel, is whining about cosmetics.

They said they were going to look into and if they were going to give a response, it's not going to be in a vague titled thread in the official forums. You should know by now we get our information about the future dev work through interviews, official news pages PLLs and other news oulets.

You've been around since 2011, you should know by now that we typically don't get announcements; or even acknowledgements, outside of Live Letters. If anything is addressed further it will be in the May Live Letter or a later letter.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

No it wouldn't. Making models for races consumes resources. They always start with concept arts and when approved they take it a step further into the actual 3d modeling part (take a look at Zenos concept arts). They don't make the 3d models and then wait for the approval after they wasted their time making them.

And speculations based on previous events hold more weight than speculations that contradict those events.

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I said they made male viera concept art. Read the thread. The model comment was in response to someone. And I didn't say fully completed models. You wouldn't present full models for a decision, you would submit roughs. I just find it hard to believe they made such a big decision without further research, testing, hell even asking the community even. I agree with you on speculation based on history. This is why everyone was shocked they repeated another genderlock.

In the hypothetical situation that they do address this and go back on their original plan in the long run, there is no way that they'd announce it outside of a large event like a fanfest, live letter or convention. After all, they are a corporation and will take any and every chance they can get to try and turn any missteps in to a chance to profit and gain goodwill with fans. Don't make threads like this as they only serve to agitate, your time is better spent keeping the discussion alive and organized within the two massive threads we already have about this issue.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

They have already answered these questions in countless interviews. I recommend Mr Happy's, it's probably the most exhaustive:

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Transcript

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I know they've answered once. That was at fanfest, and since then, they've said we're listening to feedback. I'm humbly requesting another update.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

You've been around since 2011, you should know by now that we typically don't get announcements; or even acknowledgements, outside of Live Letters. If anything is addressed further it will be in the May Live Letter or a later letter.

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That's not true. The devs have responded directly to players in the past few weeks in the Japanese forums.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

I know they've answered once. That was at fanfest, and since then, they've said we're listening to feedback. I'm humbly requesting another update.

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It's been less than a month.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

You've heard our feedback and we understand you're overwhelmed with the release of 5.0. Can we please just hear any updates in regards to adding the missing genders, please? Any new response will suffice. Thank you.

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As you say, they will be busy with finishing the release of 5.0. Hence I doubt they will make any decisions on the missing genders until after the release of 5.0, and until then there won't be any updates to be had.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

I said they made male viera concept art. Read the thread. The model comment was in response to someone. And I didn't say fully completed models. You wouldn't present full models for a decision, you would submit roughs. I just find it hard to believe they made such a big decision without further research, testing, hell even asking the community even. This is why everyone was shocked they repeated another genderlock.

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And I replied to the same comment you mentioned the models in. And yes, they can easily dismiss an idea if it's going to be a barrier to another idea, which in this case was the Hrothgar. Viera only had concept art made nothing more. But they weren't part of the original plan like Hrothgar (Yoshi P said that). Even Fran wasn't planned to show in the Ivalice raids. It was supposed to be Balthier. But when they decided to make Viera, they decided to put Fran in (it was stated in Vegas Fanfest if I remember correctly).

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

I agree with you on speculation based on history. This is why everyone was shocked they repeated another genderlock.

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Yoshi P did say in one interview before that Viera might be female only and there would be another male only race. And some were already speculating that there won't be male Viera based on the trailer and the leaks. Furthermore, this was also done due to resource limitations so those that speculated that had something to back that claim with. But, a speculation that the dev team will place a huge burden on themselves and announce something they haven't even started and if they didn't deliver it on time will cause a bigger backlash is unlikely to happen.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

It's been less than a month.

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And to add to this, the best they can do in the lead up to Shadowbringers is pretty much exactly what they're done. Express their surprise in the idea's popularity and vaguely hint they might be interested in looking into the possibility at a future date. They literally cannot commit to anything right now. The soonest I expect to hear anything substantial /if at all/ is likely 5.2-5.3. Once the dust has settled, the next relic is out, and they make sure the new expansion is keeping adequate player retention.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

That's not true. The devs have responded directly to players in the past few weeks in the Japanese forums.

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Then learn some Japanese and fish for a response there, but you are unlikely to get a response here outside of a Live Letter.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

They said they were going to look into and if they were going to give a response, it's not going to be in a vague titled thread in the official forums. You should know by now we get our information about the future dev work through interviews, official news pages PLLs and other news oulets.

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They've responded directly to players in other languages threads.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

They've responded directly to players in other languages threads.

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But very /very/ rarely here, I think I've seen an actual dev member post here like twice in my entire time on these forums, and they won't have anything substantive for a long time given that we're gearing up for 5.0. You're not going to get an answer until they regroup after 5.0 drops and they can take stock of what needs to be done going forward. I'm sorry that isn't the answer you want, but it's just the reality of how game development happens. You don't even remotely consider superfluous additions in the last two months before a big release. You save those for after when you can regroup and put your whole attention to them.

I've just checked OP's history and ... you need to lay down for a bit, take a healthy step back and reflect on what it is you are doing, why this is and if this sort of obession is really that healthy. This is not me patronising you, this is me being serious with you. As for me, I'm not against the idea of male viera. But if they don't have any real concrete things to work with right now, or they just don't have the time or resources, then they shouldn't and focus on creating an actual game. A good expansion.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

You've heard our feedback and we understand you're overwhelmed with the release of 5.0. Can we please just hear any updates in regards to adding the missing genders, please? Any new response will suffice. Thank you.

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Logically they do not have any valid reason/argument "to not look into it" it will bring profit to the company and to their shareholders and that alone should be enough reason, developers in a long term time will be rewarded for their hard work on the creation of both genders and indirectly will extend the MMO lifetime.

On why they don't do that now maybe (pure speculation) it has to do with the expansion preparation to prevent situations like happened in Ragnarok on last expansion there were so many players that could not progress on instanced quests story line so you have a notion you had waiting lines with 600-1000 characters/players to make those quests, on the 1st day.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Logically they do not have any valid reason/argument "to not look into it" it will bring profit to the company and to their shareholders and that alone should be enough reason, developers in a long term time will be rewarded for their hard work on the creation of both genders and indirectly will extend the MMO lifetime.

On why they don't do that now maybe (pure speculation) it has to do with the expansion preparation to prevent situations like happened in Ragnarok on last expansion there were so many players that could not progress on instanced quests story line so you have a notion you had waiting lines with 600-1000 characters/players to make those quests, on the 1st day.

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They are also very obviously pressed for time, simple as that. Crystarium was barely ready in time for Tokyo, Eulmore was barely ready, the Eden art was barely ready with Nomura not even having boss designs finalized, the Hrothgar models were barely ready, etc. Even in western countries, which don't have the insane work culture that Japan does, this is the crunch period where developers spend days or weeks at a time without leaving the office and often barely sleeping. Attempting to expand what they already have on their plate at this point screws up the entire workflow.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

You've heard our feedback and we understand you're overwhelmed with the release of 5.0. Can we please just hear any updates in regards to adding the missing genders, please? Any new response will suffice. Thank you.

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They've already made it pretty clear on their stance as of right now. If you think they are somehow going to magically introduce Male viera in Shadowbringers you're going to be really disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Things we KNOW:
They didn't originally plan to have alt genders for the 2 new races.

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I was under the understanding Hrothgar was the only planned race that initially made it outside concept, but then they decided to do Viera as well. So Viera took the female slot of Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by RikkCavalier

And, I don't know why they were surprised about the reaction, given the fiasco of genderlocking Roe and Miquote in 1.0.

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Probably because there was no fiasco at all. Almost nobody had an issue with it. It was the same selection of races and genders that existed in XI, which also next to nobody had an issue with.

Can we please not keep making threads about this i'm pro genders and i am getting sick and tired of threads demanding a response asap >_> let them work on 5.0 they have plenty to do when we get a response(vague as it would probably be) then bring on the threads. The longest you would be waiting for would be close to 5.1 if they haven't responded by then they aren't doing it.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

They are also very obviously pressed for time, simple as that. Crystarium was barely ready in time for Tokyo, Eulmore was barely ready, the Eden art was barely ready with Nomura not even having boss designs finalized, the Hrothgar models were barely ready, etc. Even in western countries, which don't have the insane work culture that Japan does, this is the crunch period where developers spend days or weeks at a time without leaving the office and often barely sleeping. Attempting to expand what they already have on their plate at this point screws up the entire workflow.

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Yours perspective might be the most realistic on the motive they can't give an ETA for both missing genders for each playable race right now.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Probably because there was no fiasco at all. Almost nobody had an issue with it. It was the same selection of races and genders that existed in XI, which also next to nobody had an issue with.

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Slightly incorrect, as a from launch veteran of XI, I can confidently say that there was a desire, not a demand but a simple desire, for male Mithra. and we finally got one as an NPC in Wings of the Goddess expansion... and... Fans were *perfectly fine* with the lone male Mithra to stay as an NPC since by the time that the team finally finalized what they looked like, the game was *too big* to add them in to the meta without taking upwards of three years worth of work for animations and gear texturing.

Now I need to repeat this, there was a desire for male mithra, but there wasn't a demand, people thought the idea of having a cat boy to be a novel idea that would be nice to have, but knew that the addition would be a monstrous task and were perfectly content with never getting to play as them.

Yes I remember he gave you a flower :3
And yes, there have always been desires. This is why I worded my post as I did. I don't want to claim nobody wanted anything.

These days however we see people screaming their heads off as they don't get their way. It's a much more brutal thing.

Oh god - not this again.

Once they release both counter parts its gonna be the following anyway: " What is that!? Lazy devs! Just looks like <insert race here> with attached <insert limb here>!!! Im gonna unsub!"

And then we gonna have a battle between players who like it and players who think because they pay a sub each month they own the Devs and Yoshis soul.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

I've just checked OP's history and ... you need to lay down for a bit, take a healthy step back and reflect on what it is you are doing, why this is and if this sort of obession is really that healthy. This is not me patronising you, this is me being serious with you. As for me, I'm not against the idea of male viera. But if they don't have any real concrete things to work with right now, or they just don't have the time or resources, then they shouldn't and focus on creating an actual game. A good expansion.

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More people need to read this ...

Also, to clear some things up ...

1- "they had plans for Male Viera! The concept art!" That concept art is from back when they were deciding between Scaley People and Viera. They didn't even know how the Viera would look which is why there's art for Tall, short and straight up full furry looking Viera. That's how concept art works, you make a ton of stuff and show it to the person in charge and narrow it down over time. Just cause they thought about it doesn't mean they had hard set plans to do it .. that's the whole point of the concept art stage.

2- "They didn't expect this backlash!" actually yes, they did expect backlash. It was a hard decision for them but they decided to make the most people happy and do what's right for the game and devs.

3- " It's been almost a month, I humbly demand an answer that I feel entitled to!" Do you know what they meant by looking at the response to this? For all we know they're gonna wait even until after ShB releases to comment on this, they never said when they would respond nor did they promise a statement here.

People really need to look at the Happy Interview ..

"We did expect strong feedback on the gender lock. It was a tough decision, but we decided to do our best to meet both the player feedback and our development team’s vision. It will be very costly to add a new race or genders. So I won’t say no, but I would not like to set expectations high.

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Thank you for the insight. Currently, we are putting together all the feedback. Depending on the feedback we are considering an official statement on the forums.
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