Hi guys,
newer player here. Been playing it hardcore over past 2 months and I have huge interest in the lore of the game and have an idea of maybe making some youtube videos about it BUT I have maaaaany questions and tons of stuff are really confusing to me still. I often search the forum here to find my answers but it is really hard to find some of them even after a super long searches so I was wondering do we have some kind of wiki or archive or anything alike where all we know is written down or I will have to keep wandering around to find it?
Thank you!
Do we have some kind of FFXIV lore wiki?
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04-19-2019, 07:07 PMAmekazeDo we have some kind of FFXIV lore wiki?
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04-19-2019, 08:20 PMVidu
Well, we have the two lorebooks, where a lot (but not all) stuff is written down by the dev/lore-team themselves -> https://store.na.square-enix-games.c...ntasy-xiv-book (there might be pdfs of the books out there, but I would still recommend buying the books - they're beautiful, well written, loaded with pictures and all in all just great!)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2055243359 -> there is also this, written by our lore-master Anonymoose.
Thats the only two things I can really think about - besides browsing the forum, seeing if something you want to know about has been discussed before or, if not, make a thread asking about it. -
04-19-2019, 08:55 PMAmekazeOh wow,this book looks amazing,I will keep my eye on it to grab it in the near future for sure!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
Thanks!
Okay let me drop directly the question that has been bothering me for days already,
Do Calamities happen only on the Source? I would answer yes,since to Rejoin shard needs to come back to the Source,but if it is not true I will be even more confused of how the world works. -
04-19-2019, 09:13 PMGula
Player made from a lore monger:
http://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/pos...nagerie-update -
04-19-2019, 10:41 PMLineageRazorAt this time, it is unknown just what happens on a Shard prior to a Rejoining. Really, we don't know much of anything about what life is like on other Shards. The most we know is that Ascians go to other Shards to meddle, and that that meddling sometimes causes a Flood. Since Ascians don't actually want Floods to happen, they must be meddling for other reasons. While what those reasons might be are unknown, we DO know that Ascian meddling on the Source usually has the purpose of introducing more chaos into the world, in the hopes of eventually causing a Calamity to occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
Calamities are said to thin the barriers that lie between the Source and a Shard, which is what allows the Shard to be reabsorbed into the Source. It's not out of the question to speculate that having a Calamity occur on BOTH sides of the barrier would be more effective at destabilizing it than would doing it on just one side or the other. By that logic, it would make sense to assume that the Ascians on the Shards are trying to trigger Calamities to coincide with the Calamities on the Source.
However, that seems like it would require an awful lot of coordination, and Ascians are also known for being rather independent from one another. They're not great team players, each having their own schemes and ambitions (even if their overall goal of resurrecting Zodiark seems to be pretty universal among them). That would be a point against the idea that the Ascians on the Shards are trying to trigger Calamities. Every Rejoining has coincided with a Calamity on the Source. If one happened on a Shard, but not on the source, it did not cause a Rejoining.
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, but the bottom line is that we do not know the answer to your question, and no current source of lore provides an answer. We can only speculate at this point - but since we're going to a Shard next expansion, it's at least possible taht some of those questions will be answered. It'll be interesting to see how much of the history of the First Shard we're able to learn, so we can compare it to what we know of the history of the Source. -
04-20-2019, 11:15 AMYianKutku
Every time the idea of a lore wiki for FFXIV comes up, it gets a lot of approval and "someone should do it", but honestly I don't think anyone really has the time and spare effort to make a good one.
Especially since it needs to be actively curated and updated, which means setting up a wiki is just the easiest step. Moderating it would be the real test. -
04-20-2019, 01:15 PMAnonymoose
It seems logical to assume that the shard worlds only experience the Calamity that destroys them, but logic only gets you so far. There's no confirmation. It's on the "if it's not answered in Shadowbringers, we should probably ask the devs" list, lol. I suspect that the Ascians are weakening both sides of a single shard/Source barrier at the same time, meddling in both dimensions to create enough instability to finally blow out the membrane and rejoin the shard world.
As far as a lore wiki goes, curation and moderation is indeed the challenge. It takes so much time to do data entry, one loses time for actually acquiring and archiving data. For what it's worth, Gamer Escape welcomes any efforts to flesh out the lore and (through their Discord server) will do their best to accommodate any changes needed to the infrastructure to make lore work easier. -
04-20-2019, 06:30 PMAmekazeYep,that is EXACTLY what I was wondering,but my hopes are now in vain. I thought we had answers to that. I had some crazy idea that maybe Calamities that happen on other Shards somehow reflect themselves on the Source too,so they actually happend there and not on the Source but Source got hit just as much as the Shard. I dont really know,just my stupid thought on it :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
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04-20-2019, 06:51 PMAmekazeAs I said I am new player,freshly finished MSQ and still finding tons of different stuff to do,but I am really interested in the lore itself so I did some searches and learned many things about this awesome world,but I guess the questions I seek now noone actually knows, which is kinda sad because I had an idea of making youtube videos about the lore but kinda wanted to start it from the beggining. Like the creation of the world or atleast explanantion what/who Hydaelyn and Zodiark are. Were they one before? If no what were they before separation? If yes, they seem just like some sort of huge aetherflow that got wrong ways and formed characters that represent their weird goals, which would also mean they could seperate again in smaller parts or "personas" or whatever. Then,where is this Zodiark,it is said Hydaelyn banished him and he is imprisoned in some "moon",is that "moon" something like Dalamud but million times bigger and stronger than the one we know? How will Rejoining even reborn the Zodiark,he is still "banished" and imprisoned,no? Are 7 shards (knowing we had 7 calamities) already Rejoined? Ascians say they are but somehow,I dont believe them. I think (this is 100% my made up idea) that when Shard is Rejoined all life from it returns to Source and with it I think we (people who live on the Source) would have some kind of flashbacks from the life on those destroyed Shards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Urghh,I am thinking too much about it! But I kinda had this cool idea for a video and now I am sitting here and not sure should I go with it or just do the gameplay content (this is first game that triggered me to actually try to do something like videos and stuff,YES IT IS THAT GOOD. :D)
Thanks to everyone who actually reads all this! -
04-21-2019, 04:18 AMAnonymooseThis is good! But always take what you read with a grain of salt. Reddit, YouTube, and FFWiki have a...hit and miss..relationship with FFXIV and lore accuracy, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
It's been vaguely hinted at but we're not sure of the specifics. We know they were "One" and yet we know they "shared the Sea." Can you share something if you are one thing? So it seems that the Will of Light (Hydaelyn) and the Will of Darkness (Zodiark) (if they ever were fully enmeshed as one entity), spent some time is a single body with two wills. We don't know what this means. Two crystals in one sea? One crystal with two wills?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
Physics in FFXIV are kinda weird. You dig into the planet, you might cross a boundry into the aetherial world, as if the physical world is a separate world projected from the aetherial, and the physical - at this point in spacetime - is shattered into 14 sub-frequency dimensional planes. In the sense that our planet is connected to the aetherial sea and Hydaelyn, you could say Hydaelyn is literally the planet. In the same sense, I think Zodiark is literally the moon. I think He was thrown out of the sea and became a separate entity, trapped in an aetherial rift. In the physical world, we see this as a different sphere separate from the planet, but dead. No aether, no life. Dig into the moon, you might find yourself in the Chrysalis. (Might.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
Yes. The Ascians say so, Hydaelyn says so, there's no reason not to take it for granted at this point. (Yet?) The shards have been going their separate ways for 10,000+ years, so none of the same nations should exist, none of the same people should exist, nothing should be the same except maybe chunks of the geography. In that sense, while aether does have memory, would people being born today have any more memory of the other worlds than we do our own?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
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04-21-2019, 08:35 PMAmekaze
Okay,thank you all for your answers! I am going abit away from the main title,so I will stop discussing it here and instead make a new topic whenever I have some questions.
I guess I need to take the lore on "smaller scale" since on the "larger" one it seems that we (barely) know anything about. Which I ,kinda, like and dont like at the same time (if it makes any sense).
I will give my speculation on it so whatever comes with it in the end (or more likely,not).
I say, Hydaelyn and Zodiark are neither good or bad,just 2 opposed sides chasing each other down,if rejoining would happen I think you would get the same loop with Zodiark as we have it with Hydaelyn now (finiding balance,causing calamities etc).
So I actually think the "big goal" is to get rid of both of them,Hydaelyn and Zodiark,so people that live can live forever in peace. Or maybe I just love FFX too much so thats how I kinda came to that idea,I dont know and I will leave it at that.
Once again,thank you all for your answers! -
04-22-2019, 01:05 AMAnonymooseI keep going back and forth on this. I think either Hydaelyn is incidentally both Light and benevolent to mortal life, and Zodiark is incidentally both Dark and hostile to mortal life, and the "good" and "evil" in all this is relative. It's also possible that Zodiark is per-ordained to be selfish and fight against the Light because "that is the nature of the Dark." (Think The Scorpion and the Frog.) At the very least, from his first appearance I haven't trusted Elidibus as far as I can spit, and I'm going to laugh of the overlords are just his first wave of suckers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
The big question is, is that possible? Some of the mythology is phrased in such a way that it seems as though people believe the physical world to be a result of the aetherial. If the world itself is a projection of the cosmogony of the Great Crystal(s), can it exist (as we know it) without them? Will (re)merging Hydaelyn and Zodiark, or destroying them both, result in fundamental changes to our planet and reality as we know it? It wouldn't be very Final Fantasy of us to just shut up and take that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
But maybe it's a red herring. It wouldn't be the first time we've changed Crystal status quo and gotten away with it. -
04-22-2019, 09:37 PMCeredan
There are a fair few sites that have a good amount of lore, but it's spread out across them and none have everything. I and some others are making an attempt to gather up what we can; it's slow going, as any new project is, but as our numbers grow and our knowledge base expands, it'll be more comprehensive. We're always looking for help, too!
We're here.
Gamer Escape has some solid information, though much of it either is copy-pasted from the Encyclopaedias or is mechanics (which is extremely helpful, tbh, but more for your game-players than roleplayers). It's a fine go-to, in either case! They also have a weekly podcast, sometimes a Lorecast episode. -
04-23-2019, 01:47 AMLineageRazorWhile you're not the only one to take this stance, it's worth pointing out that there is very little in-game evidence pointing to the idea that Hydaelyn is anything but good. Everyone except for the Ascians and the Primals who knows of Hydaelyn's existence think that she's the bee's knees, all of our personal interactions with her have involved her defending or supporting us, all of the subtle clues we're given as to her motivations (such as the lyrics to Answers) paint her as a being who loves living things, wishes for them to live free, and despairs when they come to harm. Probably the most questionable thing we've seen her do is acquire Minfilia as her Emissary, and even if that was done without her consent, it's highly likely Minnie would have given it, had circumstances allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amekaze
Certainly, there could come a twist revelation later on that nope, Hydaelyn is actually an inscrutable alien with blue and orange morality whose actions only SEEMED to be beneficial, or that all of her goodness up to now has actually been a front and she's actually a self-absorbed Shin Megami Tensei style God who wishes to crush all opposition and enslave all creation - but none of that is indicated in what we know NOW. It's worth pointing out that, unlike in FFX, NO ONE we know of worships Hydaelyn. There is no Church of Hydaelyn, and the folks that do know about her see her as a powerful ally, not an object of worship. There is no all-powerful Church to stand as an adversary (Ishgard has one - but they worship Halone, one of the Twelve Gods of Eorzea, who are relatively unknown outside of Eorzea, and Halone has no direct connection to Hydaelyn).
Zodiark is much more of a mystery. We know very little of him, other than that Hydaelyn was opposed to him and imprisoned him, and that the people who wish to free him are THOROUGHLY unpleasant. That still leaves plenty of room for him to be Not Evil, but as of now we do not know one way or another. -
04-23-2019, 12:50 PMMrThinkerWas it really w/o her consent though? Sure it was a bit of a do it now or don't situation, but I'm pretty sure Minfillia willingly went back to get swallowed up by 'Flow'.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
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04-23-2019, 11:12 PMLineageRazorReading back, I see that my wording was unclear. I meant to say that we do not know whether or not Minfilia consented to become an Emissary. In the scene where we were escaping with her, and she turned back, we did not learn exactly what Hydaelyn communicated to her. We later learned that it caused her to be caught up in Y'shtola's emergency teleport, but did she get full disclosure as to what was to happen to her? ("A rare opportunity is unfolding. Your companion is about to undergo a dangerous ritual, but one that could send you to me, where I may anoint you as my Emmisary. Are you willing to shed your mortal form and take on this burden for the sake of this world and others?") Or was it more along the lines of, "Hey, Minnie, I need you to stand over here for a bit, 'kay?"Quote:
Originally Posted by MrThinker
One thing that I neglected to mention that some folks ALSO take as evidence of Hydaelyn's "inner evil" is the FAN THEORY that Hydaelyn is CONSUMING the Lifestreams of the Shards when they rejoin, in order to repair the damage caused by the Calamities. This consumption may or may not be voluntary on her part, but these fans find it sinister that she's not sharing that information with us. Again, though, the problem is that there's little or no in-game evidence that this is happening. We don't know what is involved with a Rejoining. Hydaelyn may have nothing to do with it at all. It's a bit like coming up with the wild theory that Google burns endangered African rhinos in a giant furnace to power their servers, and then accusing them of skulduggery for not being open with their rhino-burning ways. -
04-24-2019, 08:13 AMObsidianFire
We actually do get confirmation in 3.4 that while Hydaelyn wasn't in a place to ask Minfillia if she was willing to act as Hydaelyn's Emassary, Minfillia says she would have said yes if Hydaelyn dig get the opportunity to ask. So I think that can be chalked up to Hydaelyn knowing Minfillia well enough to know what Minfillia would want.
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04-24-2019, 09:51 AMAnonymoose
And don't forget, that she was even in the position to be made Emissary was by her explicit consent.
Minfilia has always been first in line to trust Hydaelyn and return the love she believes She has for Her children.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Word of the Mother
She volunteered three times over. At least. -
04-24-2019, 10:59 PMLineageRazorWell, judging by the quote you just wrote, it appears that she gave her explicit consent... AFTER she was cast adrift in the Lifestream. I'd say that most courts (and most reasonable people in general) would consider that to be consent made under duress, if it happened to a stranger they didn't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Naturally, knowing what we do about Minfilia, It's pretty safe to say that her prayers were heartfelt and NOT made because she feared for her life otherwise - but the fact remains that the position she was in meant it was quite likely that she would have died, if she had not joined with Hydaelyn, and Hydaelyn was the one who arranged to put her in that position.
I'm not saying that the folks arguing for a secretly sinister Hydaelyn have much of a leg to stand on. Given the overwhelmingly positive image the game paints of the deity, they're forced to REALLY scrape the bottom of the barrel when looking for evidence. It's situations like this that they latch onto to support their position, situations that, if you squint, look at them sideways, and strip away the romanticism, look kinda fishy. -
04-24-2019, 11:52 PMAnonymoose
As a retort to that, I think I'd point at 2.5 itself.
Minfilia freezes as she's escaping the bloody banquet, claiming that Hydaelyn is calling out to her. The message Hydaelyn sends her is something that she finds shocking; varying only slightly between languages, her first reply is "No!" / "By the Twelve!" / "That can't be!" It seems to be a warning of some kind.
She abandons their escape and claims she has to stay. In English, this is "I must remain behind...but you cannot stay with me." In German, she says that she "has something to do." In Japanese, she states that the purpose of her staying is "so we can accomplish our (Scions) mission."
As she's urging the Warrior of Light to go ahead without her, in English it comes off as though the Warrior of Light is too important to take unnecessary risks. ("Please, you must go on! You are the Warrior of Light! You are hope─for the Scions, and for all the realm! As long as your flame continues to burn, the light of the dawn may ever be relit! You must escape, and save Eorzea from those who would plunge it into darkness! 'Tis the only way...") In German and Japanese, she stresses "You must go on living."
It seems like Hydaelyn gave her plenty of warning that if she went back, she wouldn't technically survive, but could contribute something meaningful to her cause that otherwise would never be.
In German and French 3.2 she stresses that her only desire upon seeing Hydaelyn grown so weak was to merge with Her; she was so afraid of losing Hydaelyn that she wanted them to be permanently united so that she could prevent it.
If Hydaelyn is guilty here, it's a pretty egregious crime: capitalizing on Minfilia's trust and love specifically to exploit her to Her own benefit. And even then Minfilia went willingly, the accusation they're really making is that Minfilia was duped.