PS3 Graphics

Hey Everyone!

I've been playing since launch and enjoyed this game very much. Coming from FFXI, this game has some interesting ideas and qualities that have made it a new and enjoyable experience. While I have been currently playing on PC, I am considering purchasing a PS3, so that I can enjoy a more consistent framerate and player experience. I am currently using an ASUS g73JH and every couple of months, my graphics card just seems to nosedive. Currently, I am requesting a model switch from ASUS to a more stable graphics card due to the consistent RMAs that I have encountered.

This being said, I was wondering if the devs or veterans from the forums would be able to comment on the quality of graphics that we will be seeing from the PS3. As of now (when my graphics card is actually stable), I play the game at standard settings with shadows and anti-aliasing off. I'd like to be able to play with shadows and with higher graphics than my pc can currently provide. I really enjoy the stability and consistency that come with playing a ff mmo on console. Any thoughts?

The only thing I assume about the graphics is that it'll be capped at 30 FPS.

Hmm.

The 'standard' settings that FFXIV comes with are actually pretty poor for the average PC video game this day and age. Most come with anti-aliasing and some shadows. The reason why they're turned off by default with FFXIV is because they're poorly optimized and don't play well except with beefier machines.

PS3 is likely only going to be slightly better, with minimum shadows and 2x AA, and low texture resolution. PS3's hardware is fairly limited. The good news is that it'll almost guaranteedly work out of the box as with all PS3 games, and you won't need to configure anything and won't experience slowdown because of underpowered hardware.

That said, I noticed that you're using a notebook to play this game. Have you considered buying or making a desktop computer to play games on? The best graphics you can get on FFXIV are going to be available on gaming desktops, and I haven't experienced slowdown or problems with graphics on mine.

Being designed for a console it'll be a lot more optimized towards that hardware (and honestly, the custom OGL PS3 uses is better than DirectX) so it should look and run fine at 720p that they're aiming for. If you played FFXI on the 360, compare that to the default PC settings and you can sorta get an idea on playability on a console vs PC.

Don't forget, with 2.0 will come better system optimization. I assume you've already looked at multiple threads on how to optimize your game, but what are all the settings you're currently playing on?

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/11691...ettings-guide/ - May or may not help you in deciding what you want on/off.

I think if we had seen the PS3 version release on the current engine, a game like Final Fantasy 13-2 would be a decent benchmark as to how the game would run. The engine is also undergoing surgery, so it will most likely perform even better than what I'm about to suggest.

No spoilers from me, har har! And mild spoilers are in the hidden boxes (which may not seem like spoilers to some, but I've been clocked on this several times).

Three tests:
1) Get into a battle with rainy weather, engaged with five or so enemies. Have your second ally as the Ravager role and use a large ally as your third character. As the player, cast Ruinga.

Academia 400, beyond the collapsed bridge where you fight flying and hulking Taxim ci'eths, usually 5~6 enemies at a time. Have a behemoth as your monster ally.

2) Go into a location with a dense population. The characters may have less detail than the player characters. Rotate the camera a few times.

Academia 4XX in the northeast section of the map.

3) Get into a battle with multiple gargantuan enemies. Cast Ruinga.

The final battle.

If you are content with the frame rate and the graphics of:
your the main character (may be a cross between main and lower detailed NPC),
monster detail,
attack effects,
the environment

You'll be golden (rough estimate)

2.0 is coming with an engine change/update that they are saying will improve compatability, the PS3 is not as powerful as an up to date PC but the advantage is that the performance will not change system to system. A PS3 will set you back more than a GTX560ti or Radeon 6950 so I'd stick to PC and just get a better graphics card, I hear EVGA are the most reliable but I personally haven't owned one of their cards.

They said that the PS3 would be cap at 720p and would look pretty good. The only diff is that PS3 would be limit how many NPC,char,mob it can display vs PC which if you have good enough Video card there is no limit. Also they said that PC would get a DX10 then a DX11 update while ps3 may just stay the same so that mean the PC every few years the look of the game may get a big update while ps3 would just stay looking pretty good but not better then pc version.

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Originally Posted by Dibria

2.0 is coming with an engine change/update that they are saying will improve compatability, the PS3 is not as powerful as an up to date PC but the advantage is that the performance will not change system to system. A PS3 will set you back more than a GTX260 or Radeon 4850 so I'd stick to PC and just get a better graphics card, I hear EVGA are the most reliable but I personally haven't owned one of their cards.

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There i fixed for you.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

They said that the PS3 would be cap at 720p and would look pretty good. The only diff is that PS3 would be limit how many NPC,char,mob it can display vs PC which if you have good enough Video card there is no limit. Also they said that PC would get a DX10 then a DX11 update while ps3 may just stay the same so that mean the PC every few years the look of the game may get a big update while ps3 would just stay looking pretty good but not better then pc version.

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This is right. I'll say that the pc version will be better also because the mods that will be on 2.0. Maybe some mods will be ported to ps3 but that depends on SE and we know what will happen.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

They said that the PS3 would be cap at 720p and would look pretty good. The only diff is that PS3 would be limit how many NPC,char,mob it can display vs PC which if you have good enough Video card there is no limit. Also they said that PC would get a DX10 then a DX11 update while ps3 may just stay the same so that mean the PC every few years the look of the game may get a big update while ps3 would just stay looking pretty good but not better then pc version.

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This would make sense to me. The texture detail running at 1920x1200 is nothing short of amazing. Obviously it takes a beast of a computer to run it at that level. There's no way a PS3 could handle it. Limiting the res to 1280x720 would make it possible to run at a decent frame rate. However, the difference in image quality between a PC at 1080p+ and a PS3 at 720p is likely to be pretty large.

What worries me is that they will dumb down the engine somehow to shoehorn it into the PS3 and the PC experience will suffer. That the game looks so wonderful is a big reason why I like it so much.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

This would make sense to me. The texture detail running at 1920x1200 is nothing short of amazing. Obviously it takes a beast of a computer to run it at that level. There's no way a PS3 could handle it. Limiting the res to 1280x720 would make it possible to run at a decent frame rate. However, the difference in image quality between a PC at 1080p+ and a PS3 at 720p is likely to be pretty large.

What worries me is that they will dumb down the engine somehow to shoehorn it into the PS3 and the PC experience will suffer. That the game looks so wonderful is a big reason why I like it so much.

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Remember they using crystal tool which limit the ps3 maybe the new tool would allow them to make it 1080p seeing how the main tool point is to allow low end pc to play. The only thing is matter what PC would look 100x better due to the fact that we can display more players and mob and npc with a high end PC and we are getting a DX10 and DX11 update while PS3 would stay the same which should not be a issue anyways/

@Signy - You can get a GTX 560 TI or Radeon 6950 cheaper than a PS3.

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Originally Posted by Asmeret

@Signy - You can get a GTX 560 TI or Radeon 6950 cheaper than a PS3.

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Yeah, but is not all you need to make it work, you need a cpu, mother, mems, etc, a PS3 is all in one. Anyway, the money here is not the problem, the graphic quality you get for a PC will be better that a PS3 if you have any of the today mid-end graphics card or better.

BTW I have a 4850 and i play it at 1080p with every on high (not top), and it run almost alway at 60 fps.

I've actually just sent my laptop out for RMA. I've requested a different model, because I have had to RMA the G73-JH five times! I asked for the G73-SW, because it comes with an nVidia Gefore GTX 460M which plays the game a hell of a lot more smoother than my Radeon HD 5870 and they are both comparable cards. I spoke to a manager over the phone and now I'm just waiting to hear back from them. If not, I think that I'll probably be going with the PS3. I'm sure the graphics will be high enough quality and I'm more interested in stability then how many npcs will be displayed.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

and honestly, the custom OGL PS3 uses is better than DirectX

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no comment... I... how... no, no comment

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Originally Posted by Ethari

it comes with an nVidia Gefore GTX 460M which plays the game a hell of a lot more smoother than my Radeon HD 5870 and they are both comparable cards.

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I find that surprising as mobile edition GPUs are scaled back for power and thermal envelope restrictions on mobile computers - are you running at the same resolution? The 5870 should outperform a 460m but computers are nothing if not surprising at times.

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Originally Posted by Dibria

I find that surprising as mobile edition GPUs are scaled back for power and thermal envelope restrictions on mobile computers - are you running at the same resolution? The 5870 should outperform a 460m but computers are nothing if not surprising at times.

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a discrete 460 with the 1gb of memory wont outperform a 5870

I doubt PS3 will have any AA tbh, shadows will be minimal at best.

If you can afford it you would be best going with a PC upgrade.

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What worries me is that they will dumb down the engine somehow to shoehorn it into the PS3 and the PC experience will suffer. That the game looks so wonderful is a big reason why I like it so much.

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It's unlikely to be like that, a decent game engine will be fully scalable, PS3 version will no doubt use lower res textures and assets and high LoD settings.

comparison of a low level computer to a ps3 then the ps3 will be better by far. if you want to compare a mid-high level computer to a ps3 the computer will blow it away.

if you have the funds to invest in a nice gaming rig then that is the way to go. if you are strapped for funds i'd say go with the ps3 unless your base comp is good enough now to take a few upgrades and not do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

a discrete 460 with the 1gb of memory wont outperform a 5870

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Radeon Mobility GPUs are coded diferently, a 5870M is equal to (in fact a little worst) a 5670 (desktop), a 5650M is like a 5450 and so on. Nvidia on mid range cards is generally better on laptops.

Here you have a comparison:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Compari...rds.130.0.html

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Originally Posted by Signy

Radeon Mobility GPUs are coded diferently, a 5870M is equal to (in fact a little worst) a 5670 (desktop), a 5650M is like a 5450 and so on. Nvidia on mid range cards is generally better on laptops.

Here you have a comparison:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Compari...rds.130.0.html

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A mobility 5870 is roughly equivalent to a discrete 460 (And in fact the mobility 5870 will edge it out slightly)
Mobility meaning in a laptop... discrete meaning a full card...
So it will OBVIOUSLY outperform a 460m
I know what I'm saying, you have to trust me on this one

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Originally Posted by Rydin

A mobility 5870 is roughly equivalent to a discrete 460 (And in fact the mobility 5870 will edge it out slightly)
Mobility meaning in a laptop... discrete meaning a full card...
So it will OBVIOUSLY outperform a 460m
I know what I'm saying

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On laptop terms a discrete GPU is the one that it isn't integrated on the motherboard and is connected by a port, it can or can't have its own memory.

Compare the results:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mob...0.23073.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...M.33612.0.html

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Originally Posted by Ethari

I've actually just sent my laptop out for RMA. I've requested a different model, because I have had to RMA the G73-JH five times! I asked for the G73-SW, because it comes with an nVidia Gefore GTX 460M which plays the game a hell of a lot more smoother than my Radeon HD 5870 and they are both comparable cards. I spoke to a manager over the phone and now I'm just waiting to hear back from them. If not, I think that I'll probably be going with the PS3. I'm sure the graphics will be high enough quality and I'm more interested in stability then how many npcs will be displayed.

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I have a G53-SW I can play the game with standard no problem. I occasionally open the setting to max to take nice screen shot. little laggy on max setting. So I guess G73-SW will do slightly better

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Originally Posted by Signy

On laptop terms a discrete GPU is the one that it isn't integrated on the motherboard and is connected by a port, it can or can't have its own memory.

Compare the results:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mob...0.23073.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...M.33612.0.html

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Are you looking at synthetic tests are real world game FPS?
Either way, The 460m falls short
But not by much..... trading in 1 for the other wont help anyone

I have the Radeon HD 5870M. I've seen the GTX 460M perform on the same settings as the Radeon and it definitely does a better job. With the Radeon, I was unable to use any anti-aliasing settings or run any shadows. The GTX 460M was able to handle both without any lag. Also, the 5870M has been highly unstable. When I first started playing, I had to use a custom vbios to fix a GSOD and BSOD problem that should have never hit the market. So in terms of hardware a 5870 should be able to do better, but the truth is it has just been a shitty card due to instability.

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Originally Posted by Ethari

I have the Radeon HD 5870M. I've seen the GTX 460M perform on the same settings as the Radeon and it definitely does a better job. With the Radeon, I was unable to use any anti-aliasing settings or run any shadows. The GTX 460M was able to handle both without any lag. Also, the 5870M has been highly unstable. When I first started playing, I had to use a custom vbios to fix a GSOD and BSOD problem that should have never hit the market. So in terms of hardware a 5870 should be able to do better, but the truth is it has just been a shitty card due to instability.

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my experience is just the opposite... I've had the 460 run super hot and buggy on all the notebooks I've worked on

In the G73 series, the fans are placed in the back and do an excellent job of displacing the heat generated by the cpu and gpu. Overheating hasn't been my issue, the hd 5870 has just died on me several times since I have owned this laptop. I haven't attempted to overclock and my computer never lags right when I get it back from RMA, but after a while it starts to stutter and then goes downhill from there until i hit BSODs.

I've found that the game runs better if I lower the drawing quality a bit. I used to run everything on Highest, but I bumped down drawing quality to High (8), or sometimes 9. Shadow quality is also something I don't run on the highest setting anymore. I turn it down to the point it becomes visually distracting, then bump it up one notch.

Drawing quality controls the number of polygons used to render everything. A lot of cards handle lower polygon counts w/ AA better than they handle higher polygon counts w/o AA.

In game, I have it set for 60fps cap. When I had drawing quality set to Highest, I'd have to lower that to 30fps to avoid serious lag in combat w/ particle effects and such.

Also from my experience, ffxiv has been optimized for nVidia cards and the shaders on the 5870 seem to struggle in densely forested areas (aka every time I tried to do botany leves when my card was acting up, fps was non-existent).

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

I've found that the game runs better if I lower the drawing quality a bit. I used to run everything on Highest, but I bumped down drawing quality to High (8), or sometimes 9. Shadow quality is also something I don't run on the highest setting anymore. I turn it down to the point it becomes visually distracting, then bump it up one notch.

Drawing quality controls the number of polygons used to render everything. A lot of cards handle lower polygon counts w/ AA better than they handle higher polygon counts w/o AA.

In game, I have it set for 60fps cap. When I had drawing quality set to Highest, I'd have to lower that to 30fps to avoid serious lag in combat w/ particle effects and such.

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This is very true... 10 is the equivalent to double buffering, if I recall....
8 is standard...
I run Max on everything (at 1920x1080) and 8 on draw quality and it works great

The Dev team has stated that they are specifically Optimizing the new Engine to be optimized for PS3 while maintaining the ability to up the Specs on PC.

Basically what it boils down to is. This game will look a little better than it does now on standard PC settings on PS3, but only PC will be able to push it up to Very High settings.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

The Dev team has stated that they are specifically Optimizing the new Engine to be optimized for PS3 while maintaining the ability to up the Specs on PC.

Basically what it boils down to is. This game will look a little better than it does now on standard PC settings on PS3, but only PC will be able to push it up to Very High settings.

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Also they said that they will optimize also the pc version to be able to play it on low-end pcs.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

The Dev team has stated that they are specifically Optimizing the new Engine to be optimized for PS3 while maintaining the ability to up the Specs on PC.

Basically what it boils down to is. This game will look a little better than it does now on standard PC settings on PS3, but only PC will be able to push it up to Very High settings.

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This is really the answer that I was looking for. Even if I am able to switch models, I may still consider purchasing a PS3 for other games and ffxiv as well.

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Originally Posted by Ethari

This is really the answer that I was looking for. Even if I am able to switch models, I may still consider purchasing a PS3 for other games and ffxiv as well.

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Wow you don't own a PS3, you know this generation of consoles is almost over right ? /jk

I'm aware, but now that the systems are rounding themselves out, I'd like to go back and enjoy some of the ps3 exclusives that I missed. I enjoy my 360 and pc way more, so I've stuck to them for the longest time.

@Ethari - Ditto, I've had the chance to pick up a PS3 but with the exception of a handful of exclusives I've never felt I've missed out on anything, but I will probably pick one up before vs. XIII comes out (if it ever does) and play through Uncharted etc.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Wow you don't own a PS3, you know this generation of consoles is almost over right ? /jk

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I actually bought a PS3 "just to have one". All I do is use it for Netflix/Hulu+. Hopefully it'll get some more use when FFXIV gets it's PS3 release... Although I already play on my TV and use a controller....

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Originally Posted by Dibria

I hear EVGA are the most reliable but I personally haven't owned one of their cards.

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Not in my experience. I've had a couple that were kaput right out of the box.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Not in my experience. I've had a couple that were kaput right out of the box.

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XFX has the double lifetime, modder friendly warranty

Not really on topic but yesterday i get a Ati HD7950 and FFXIV run almost at the same speed as with my HD4850. I guess on 2.0 they will fix this with the new engine.