[IDEA] Limit Break - ShB

Caster's limit break is almost same than physical ranged, both are AoE attack.

So, why don't change that ?

Caster can be able to use DoT attack, most poweful potency than melee (to compensate for not being immediate damage).

So, some idea for visual:
-Summoner when use LB summon multiple poweful primal for few second
-BLM change the weather in battlefield for few second and lightning storm will cause dmg in the target

I know that maybe changes have already been made, but I still decided to share this idea :p

Caster LB is already quite strong.

Caster LB1 beats melee LB1 on 2 targets.
Caster LB1 beats melee LB2 on 4 targets.
Caster LB1 beats melee LB3 on 7 targets.

That's just talking about the LB1s.

A DoT limit break would just not ever get used. People want to limit break for instant gratification. It's meant to be an epic moment with a powerful immediate effect.

I don't see them ever touching Caster LB3 if only because it's now ingrained into The Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate)'s raid; there's a section in the fight where the caster has to LB3 to destroy the targets around the arena or the party will wipe. That said, I don't entirely disagree that Ranged LB3 and Caster LB3 do sort of serve the same purpose. I might get some heat, but perhaps the Ranged LB3 should be changed; either shifted back to Healer LBs as they were in 2.x.

A Limit Break for a role is the ultimate move of that role, fueled by the power of the entire party's spirit. For melee, it's a massive single target burst; for casters, you're letting loose an apocalyptic level spell onto the arena. For healers, you're defying time and death itself, rejuvenating all of your companions; for tanks, you're creating a nigh-impenetrable wall/force shield around the party. In this sense, it makes sense Rangers would have a powerful directional attack piercing all defenses, but another more important aspect of Rangers in this game is the party support.

A Limit Break based around their party support could manifest a few ways. As mentioned earlier, copying the Healer LB could be a thing; it lets a Ranger possibly save a wipe when the healers are dead. But many people disliked having that on Rangers (in 2.x, I also disliked it), and it apes Healer's LB identity. Another way Ranger LB could manifest is Resource management, since that's a game of a Ranger: refresh and tactician. But that would be incredibly weak and used even less than Ranger LB is used now.

Maybe it could manifest, instead, as a statboost for the party--call me crazy, but maybe let Ranger DPS have a (watered down) Ungarmax-style Limit Break. Back when that bug was a thing, people loved using it (maybe yes because it was so potent). But think about it: a Ranger LB3 that's Ungarmax (again, basically, not the real Ungarmax...though maybe yeah for LB3, real Ungarmax), and has half the animation lock of LB3.

The drawback to Melee LB3 is that there is a cast time and the Melee is putting themselves out in harm's way. Same-ish with Caster LB3 but I don't generally see CLB3 used very much either. I digress! So the advantage to Rangermax LB3 would be that it doesn't put a player in as dangerous a spot: the tradeoff is that in the long run, RLB3 does less overall damage than MLB3.

Another drawback is Rangermax would become the gold standard to pad FFLogs. In which case FFLogs would have to censor Rangermax clears out like they did Ungarmax, which would then make Rangermax extinct (or they could do nothing...and we'd never see anything but Rangermax from DPS). I apologize, I'm using your post to ramble off random ideas.

Huge honking Meteor cataclysmically crashes down on the entire battle arena.
Enemy suffers poison damage.

Caster LB's make sense as is. The mages blow things up indiscriminately.

Melee LB's make sense as is. They wreck their opponent 1v1 (Yugiri using it in conjunction with Mirror copies aside >.>)

Ranged LB's is a little off... They shoot in a line and kind of hurt some people maybe?

Like, where does Ranged LB fit in? It's not good ST because it's an AoE skill so its weaker... It's not good AoE because it doesn't have the coverage to reliably hit the mass AoE targets that usually warrant a LB usage.

So, if anything Ranged LB is the one that should change.

Into what?

Possibly something supporty. Given that seems to be a theme with BRD/DNC and the role actions.

What kind of support though?

Defenses and resources are already taken care of with Tank and Healer LB's respectively... So that's out of the question.

Damage boost? It'd be tricky to balance because either it'd be weaker than Melee/Caster and thus never be used still, or it'll be stronger and be the desired one... I suppose maybe there's some room for having it be more potent than Melee/Caster ones if you can maintain uptime throughout the duration, with Melee/Caster taking over for the times where you need faster burst.

So yeah... Maybe alter rDPS LB's into providing something like a vulnerability debuff or something that lasts a decent while at a low value. Like IDK 5% for 20s or something? Making it ideal for periods of good uptime on a boss. While mDPS/Caster LB's maintain usefulness for quick burst damage such as before a phase transition, or to finish targets off.

If anything LB should either be individual to each player or separated by role. Not fond of the party share thing since most encounters have me not bothering with LB at all.

Caster LB shouldn't change. Ranged is the one with an issue as it's weaker and being a line AoE doesn't provide any meaningful advantage. I think the simplest way to help it fill its niche would be to change it from a line AoE to a cone. The far end of the cone would be bigger than caster AoE to make up for the reduced damage. Such a wide cone would be desirable in situations where you need to hit spaced out enemies, like the keys in O10. I also like the idea of adding a support function to it. Keep the low damage compared to other LB's, but then add a free party wide refresh, palisade, or both on top of the damage effect.

I'm not sure about having a DoT LB though, as it would need to do more damage than the other LB's, but in doing so would make the other LB's less desirable unless the DoT was stretched out over a really long time perhaps? DPS LB is all about how much total damage is done. It doesn't matter if it's all at once or over time, as long as it makes the fight shorter.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

If anything LB should either be individual to each player or separated by role. Not fond of the party share thing since most encounters have me not bothering with LB at all.

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If every player had their own individual limit break, then they would need to rebalance the entire game to account for what is, in essence, a new and powerful cooldown. And then that's what it becomes-- a cooldown as part of your rotation. It becomes less special.

Secondly, every job already has their own personal "limit break". It's called Level 50 CD or the job gauge skills, and it features such things as Pitch Perfect, Nastrond, Bloodspiller, Hallowed Ground, Benediction, Turret Overload, Foul, Verholy/Verflare, Fey Union, Sleeve Draw, etc. Powerful or strategic moves to be used in a pinch for great effect. That's what a limit break is defined as, right?


I think they DO need to change Ranged Physical limit breaks because they're slightly weaker than Caster's (though they have a 30' range instead if 25'). I think it should do more considering it's trickier to aim (you don't place a reticule, you just target a mob and it makes a line). Maybe they could make it conal, or add a small DoT (but not snapshot any buffs) that allows it to catch up to caster LB. I think they should add a potent Regen/Refresh effect onto Healer LB1/LB2 and maybe see more use in dungeons where a boss has more HP than what an LB1 or LB2 would deal, yet the healer is out of MP and the rest of the party is near death. It would heal the party up and give them a 10-15second regen/refresh to get back in the game. The tank LB1 and LB2 could add a powerful damage-spikes effect to the party that's like 100-150 potency Vengeance style-attack, or maybe a Stoneskin effect instead of damage% down. Imagine if tank LB gave everyone a shield worth 25-100% of their HP and lasted until the shield decays from absorbing damage, instead of it being a 10-12 second duration -50% damage down?

I like the idea of the support job (ranged) getting a support oriented skill. Would there be enough benefit to a ranged LB that gives room wide buff to your party and debuff to the enemy? Shorter cast time than the other LBs (the fancy animation can last a while, I'm just saying less animation lock).

Party:
HP & MP Regen (less healing than healer LB, but this has resource regen at tier 1)
Physical & Magic Attack Up (1-3%)
Haste (tier 3 can cut time off longer cooldown abilities)

Enemy:
DoT
Physical & Magic Attack / Defense Down (1-3%)
Slow (most likely to be resisted by bosses)

The DoT + a full alive party dealing good damage would bring the total damage of the LB closer to weaker LB (but still not superior just "its not bad damage, not the most though"). However while still less total damage at least unless the room was full of monsters (this being room wide could mean a lot of damage then) there is still the hp/regen/and a few extra seconds knocked off your cooldowns (tank super moves coming back around faster could be an important concept to some ultimate fights).

You could simplify the amount of buffs but I feel like part of the fun of the spell would be seeing a bunch of icons appear lol (like watching bad breath go off, just extra excitement).

Perhaps making this a sort of "we're not SoL yet let's keep this ship sailing smoothly" sort of skill, while the others are more like "we need a result NOW". So less damage than damage ones, less healing the healing ones, but brings back resources and abilities sooner and does a bit of both of the other LBs which can be helpful when you don't necessarily need to burst, mass raise, or mass shield anything.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Damage boost? It'd be tricky to balance because either it'd be weaker than Melee/Caster and thus never be used still, or it'll be stronger and be the desired one... I suppose maybe there's some room for having it be more potent than Melee/Caster ones if you can maintain uptime throughout the duration, with Melee/Caster taking over for the times where you need faster burst.

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A party capable of clearing Omega12 is doing 42,000ish total dps.

Melee Limit Breaks per use are about 370k.

The Ranged Limitbreak doesn't -only- have to boost damage.

At 5% increased damage, it takes about 180 seconds to surpass Melee Limit Break, assuming it has the same cast time. To put this down to a sane time limit, we can increase this to 20% (thus reducing the TTP to 45 seconds)

LB1: Grants 20% movement speed for 30seconds.
LB2: Grants 20% movement speed and reduces Cast times by 100% for 30 seconds.
LB3: Grants 20% movement speed, reduces cast times by 100%, and increases damage dealt by 20% for 30 seconds.

You get to be Ranged!

And YOU get to be Ranged!

WE ALL GET TO BE RANGED!

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

A party capable of clearing Omega12 is doing 42,000ish total dps.

Melee Limit Breaks per use are about 370k.

The Ranged Limitbreak doesn't -only- have to boost damage.

At 5% increased damage, it takes about 180 seconds to surpass Melee Limit Break, assuming it has the same cast time. To put this down to a sane time limit, we can increase this to 20% (thus reducing the TTP to 45 seconds)

LB1: Grants 20% movement speed for 30seconds.
LB2: Grants 20% movement speed and reduces Cast times by 100% for 30 seconds.
LB3: Grants 20% movement speed, reduces cast times by 100%, and increases damage dealt by 20% for 30 seconds.

You get to be Ranged!

And YOU get to be Ranged!

WE ALL GET TO BE RANGED!

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Maybe throw in some ignore positional requirements somewhere. Given that melee (Aside from SAM) don't care about cast time reductions.

Sure, Tanks get the short end of the stick, but ehh... Since when have SE ever cared about them anyway...

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Maybe throw in some ignore positional requirements somewhere. Given that melee (Aside from SAM) don't care about cast time reductions.

Sure, Tanks get the short end of the stick, but ehh... Since when have SE ever cared about them anyway...

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I'm sorry, I guess a 20% damage increase wasn't generous enough.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'm sorry, I guess a 20% damage increase wasn't generous enough.

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Well, Casters are getting 20% damage increase AND bypassing their one weakness.

mDPS/rDPS are getting only the 20% damage increase (Also only on level 3)

That said, this also is very tilted towards RDM because then they can just spam their Verthunder/Veraero constantly for the duration >.>

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Well, Casters are getting 20% damage increase AND bypassing their one weakness.

mDPS/rDPS are getting only the 20% damage increase (Also only on level 3)

That said, this also is very tilted towards RDM because then they can just spam their Verthunder/Veraero constantly for the duration >.>

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Let me point out that if we added the "Ignore positionals" part, then your criticism is that Tanks, who are ignored in your opinion, don't get anything while everyone else gets to play like them for a short duration.

Except for, you know, the being able to survive stuff part.

Tanks don't get anything extra because the only thing they -could- get is extending their melee range to 25y.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

If every player had their own individual limit break, then they would need to rebalance the entire game to account for what is, in essence, a new and powerful cooldown. And then that's what it becomes-- a cooldown as part of your rotation. It becomes less special.

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They already factor in LB into the balancing of raid fights so I don't see an issue with rebalancing. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

They already factor in LB into the balancing of raid fights so I don't see an issue with rebalancing. *shrug*

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I dont think they factor in everyone having a LB.
2 tank LBs, 2 full party recovers, and 4 huge damage spikes.

LB3 heal should recover MP for all pt member as well, not just the one who down

The sad irony of the limit break is that no one wants to use it. And in that vein, please please please do not make me LB any more than I already have to, thank you.

I'd be interested in a more multidimensional LB system, rather than just the five we have, but it would be difficult for them to balance probably. Say each individual melee LB gives something different to the party on top of just single target damage, and the tanks LB gives boosted magic defense for DRK and boosted physical defense for PLD on top of the damage reduction it already gives.


It's tragic that the "coolest" skills in the game are looked on with disdain because they are personal losses.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

They already factor in LB into the balancing of raid fights so I don't see an issue with rebalancing. *shrug*

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They do not. This was stated before in interviews. It's a bonus option meant to help you recover or clear faster. Limit Break damage is never required except in rare instances like Ultimate Raids, or when attempting a new Savage Raid at the onset of it being opened, when everyone is at the minimum iLvl.

I think Yoshi said they approximately base raid boss HP off of:

-Total DPS of 4 DPS doing standard rotations + 2 tanks in tank stance (doing enmity combos) over 10-12 min with minimum ilvl.

Then, they subtract 15% from that to account for mechanics, less than perfect rotations, 1-2 deaths and then you arrive at the boss's HP. What wasn't accounted for in raid boss HP, was Healer DPS, tanks in DPS stance, stat potions, food, and limit break damage. Through those aforementioned extra things, players were able to topple new raids in min ilvl. Not intended by devs, but not unwelcomed either.

Remember, Yoshi said numerous times in past interviews that they never EXPECTED players to beat savage raids at minimum ilvl. They intentionally ALLOWED players to ATTEMPT to challenge savage raids at minimum ilvl, so they can learn the first few phases of mechanics, while simultaneously increaseing their ilvl over time from normal raid gear and tomestone gear until they have the proper DPS to clear. Hardcore players, being as clever as they are, took advantage of numerous creative ways to increase their survivability (VIT overmelds) and extra sources of damage (healers with accuracy gear; tanks with STR melds and stance dancing; stat pots, shield crit HP LB meter cheesing) to beat them. We think of it as a no-brainer now, but healer DPS was not something that even existed until final coil or Gordias Savage, really.

Devs knowing this, it's unknown if these things are now taken into account since healer DPS no longer relies on accuracy, and tank DPS has increased vastly. But I still suspect limit break damage is not taken into account, because that would presume that melee LB is the default only proper use of LB, wherein I would imagine when designing the fights, the LB is sort of a wildcard SOS type move

I think it would be neat if Ranged DPS were the only class that could use partial limit break bars. Let's say they could trigger an LB that consumed 50% of a single LB bar dropping the total amount held by the party. This would remove all Debuffs including weakness and instantly fill the party's resources for TP and MP. It would be a setback in terms of DPS from using a Melee or Caster LB but could set the ship aright during a Rez fest when Healer LB 3 isn't available yet without ruining the chance to get an LB3 later. It would also be available before the first limit break bar is filled. Being able to remove Vulnerability Stacks that otherwise might wipe the party would be really interesting.