Buff stacking order?

So I've been playing Gladiator for a little while now and I'm noticing some quirks about it that I've found a bit annoying. I've done a brief search in the forums to try and find any information on it but didn't come up with anything.

The example I'll use is Stoneskin. When I use Stoneskin on myself and use Aegis Boon I notice that I heal for 0. Now this in itself isn't a major issue but if I'm healing for 0 doesn't that mean that I blocked 0 damage? If that's the case then my spell ate the entire hit making blocking while it's active a moot point. Why bother with defensive stats at all when you can just cycle ?

An easy fix for this would be to have a buff stacking order where damage reduction from block, parry, protect, sentinel, ext. are taken into account before stoneskin absorbs the remainder.

If there's a thread about this or any information related to this please post a link.

I'm not sure I follow what exactly you are saying. Aegis Boon blocks and restores HP based on how much damage you've taken, not based on how much damage you've blocked. Since your Stoneskin absorbed the damage and you took 0 damage, your recover 0 HP because you took no damage at all. The block activating during Stoneskin would reduce how much damage your Stoneskin itself takes so it could potentially be a free hit or more of Stoneskin, which is quite valuable.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I'm not sure I follow what exactly you are saying. Aegis Boon blocks and restores HP based on how much damage you've taken, not based on how much damage you've blocked. Since your Stoneskin absorbed the damage and you took 0 damage, your recover 0 HP because you took no damage at all. The block activating during Stoneskin would reduce how much damage your Stoneskin itself takes so it could potentially be a free hit or more of Stoneskin, which is quite valuable.

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You're absolutely right, however I think that what he's asking is that "Damage Taken" be based on "Damage that would have been taken before stoneskin." If I stoneskin a tank, that should be a beneficial move. It should not mean that the ~330 MP they just spent on Sanguine Rite is wasted, or that they have to wait for the next Aegis Boon.

There is still "damage taken" by the Stoneskin effect, so it seems that they would just need to change which point the "proportion to damage taken" draws its number from.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

You're absolutely right, however I think that what he's asking is that "Damage Taken" be based on "Damage that would have been taken before stoneskin." If I stoneskin a tank, that should be a beneficial move. It should not mean that the ~330 MP they just spent on Sanguine Rite is wasted, or that they have to wait for the next Aegis Boon.

There is still "damage taken" by the Stoneskin effect, so it seems that they would just need to change which point the "proportion to damage taken" draws its number from.

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That's pretty much what I'm getting at.

I did not know that Aegis Boon was based off damage taken since I've always taken 0 damage from a hit that triggers it since it's fully blocked instead of partially blocked. Or at least that was my understanding from using it.

You're just saying the possible Block should come before stoneskin mitigates any damage?
if so, I agree... it makes sense in a literal way and in a game mechanics kind of way

because what is happening now seems like stoneskin is taking the full hit... so you're blocking a hit that would be zero and mitigating zero damage from the block (But still blocking, and therefore using up Aegis Boons guaranteed block)

Meh I think it works how it is since you have to draw the line somewhere and it's intuitive at face value instead of adding more situational exceptions. It's based on damage taken so it's something of a risk vs reward and you could just time your Aegis boon in between Stoneskins, same with Sanguine Rite. If your Stoneskin is constantly up (guessing in parties and such where enemies don't hit as hard) you're taking 0 damage most of the time so the healer can patch you up.

@Rydin he wants to get normally healed for blocking with Aegis boon despite taking 0 damage with Stoneskin up.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Meh I think it works how it is since you have to draw the line somewhere. It's based on damage taken so it's something of a risk vs reward and you could just time your Aegis boon so it activates in between Stoneskins, same with Sanguine Rite.

@Rydin he wants to get normally healed for blocking with Aegis boon despite taking 0 damage with Stoneskin up.

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thats what I'm saying... Aegis boon heals based on how much damage your block mitigates
Since stoneskin is coming first... you block.. but there is technically no damage reduction (Since the damage was zero before the block)
So making the block happen before the stoneskin damage reduction would, in essence, fix this

I think its easier coding for them to have stoneskin take the dmg till it wears off, instead of having varying things which would act first instead of stoneskin. In a lot of mmos you need to remember "oh I have this on, its not useful to use this", plus most of the level 50 tanks I know who are actually tanking (you do not tank pre 50 w/e, the mobs die too fast), this is not a problem, they have already remembered redundancies and such. If this is really important, which is isn't, they'd probably most change it at 2.0

Yes, there is an issue with Aegis Boon and Stoneskin.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I think its easier coding for them to have stoneskin take the dmg till it wears off, instead of having varying things which would act first instead of stoneskin. In a lot of mmos you need to remember "oh I have this on, its not useful to use this", plus most of the level 50 tanks I know who are actually tanking (you do not tank pre 50 w/e, the mobs die too fast), this is not a problem, they have already remembered redundancies and such. If this is really important, which is isn't, they'd probably most change it at 2.0

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But (unless I'm wrong) the calculation is still done. The damage blocked by Aegis Boon is still blocked, but rather than preventing HP loss, it mitigates the damage to stoneskin. Also, the servers still know exactly how much damage you would have taken, because it subtracts that number from your stoneskin.

I agree that most tanks have developed workarounds, but unfortunately you cant control when someone stoneskins you. This is especially detrimental for Sanguine Rite. If the healer thinks it's a good time for stoneskin, and the tank decides to throw up Sanguine Rite before the cast is finished...I've seen it happen a few times.

I'm glad to see it's not just me thinking that this could be fixed.

@Estellios This is for more than just being able to get healed by Aegis Boon. It's for MP gain from Outmaneuver's blocks or taking damage from Sanguine Rite. If you use either of those abilities to get MP back and just happen to get stoneskin right after you'll gain absolutely nothing. On top of that, making stoneskin come after blocking improves the efficiency of stoneskin meaning less casts required by the healer. Healer wins, tank wins, everybody wins. I really don't see the logic of your argument against this besides the "That's the way it is, get used to it"

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Originally Posted by Mychael

But (unless I'm wrong) the calculation is still done. The damage blocked by Aegis Boon is still blocked, but rather than preventing HP loss, it mitigates the damage to stoneskin.

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I think thats what it should do... but I don't know that it is

I agree that Stoneskin damage should be calculated after the block, but I still don't think Aegis Boon or Sanguine Rite should restore anything if you've taken 0 damage because they are based on that, and Sanguine Rite itself is immensely powerful and just being able to perpetually restore your MP without taking any damage is a bit overpowered, especially since it's instant cast and you can turn it on when you see fit. Since Aegis Boon is also a guaranteed block, it's in a similar situation where you can activate it immediately when it's needed and Stoneskin is off.

Admittedly, I'm basing my opinions on endgame situations where Stoneskin only lasts 2 hits at best, and there is a lot less chances that both Aegis Boon and Stoneskin are going to be on you at the same time due to their recasts and the fact that at some points healers aren't going to be able to continually put Stoneskin up while you are getting beaten on.

On Outmaneuver, though, I haven't used the new one personally but the description says it restores TP (and MP when upgraded), NOT based on how much damage you've taken. Since it doesn't guarantee a block and its activation is effectively out of your control, I agree with you that it should recover TP/MP even when Stoneskin is on and you take 0 damage.

You seem to be missing something about Aegis Boon. The block generated by using it soaks all damage. You take 0 direct damage and heal for the amount blocked. So regardless of stoneskin being on or off you take 0 damage from the blocked attack.