Make fates great again.

In my opinion this is an issue that deserves petitions and uproar. Fates need to become important again. In HW they became less important until you had to farm them for the relic weapon. In Stormblood I have never seen groups of players doing fates. A few times I soloed one here and there, and on rare occasions someone would join in. But for the most part they go completely untouched.

One idea I have is to combine fates with the concept of Eureka. Tie it to the relic weapon. Instead of going into an instanced zone make it so that by completing a certain number of fates it spawns a max level fate which drops a specific item you need. And you must have your relic weapon equipped during the fate to get the item.

Of course there are some details to work out. So what are your ideas to make fates a relevant part of the game again?

Your idea isn't really a fix. It's a regression to an old system and a bandaid at best. It only makes FATEs relevant while the relic is current. After the relic becomes obsolete, then the bandaid is ripped off once again.

Also, have you not been in Eureka at all? Notorious monsters are just FATEs in disguise, usually with more intense mechanics.

So in reality, no one ever stopped doing FATEs in SB, they were just being exclusively completed in specific areas.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

In my opinion this is an issue that deserves petitions and uproar. Fates need to become important again. In HW they became less important until you had to farm them for the relic weapon. In Stormblood I have never seen groups of players doing fates. A few times I soloed one here and there, and on rare occasions someone would join in. But for the most part they go completely untouched.

One idea I have is to combine fates with the concept of Eureka. Tie it to the relic weapon. Instead of going into an instanced zone make it so that by completing a certain number of fates it spawns a max level fate which drops a specific item you need. And you must have your relic weapon equipped during the fate to get the item.

Of course there are some details to work out. So what are your ideas to make fates a relevant part of the game again?

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Please don't

nothing is relevant unless you put something that makes people have to do them, all i really want is them to make all the fates easily soloable after like the first patch of an expansion like the .1 series since pretty much after that everyone has done the important fates for achievements and items and is done doing them and fates because pretty meh after because of how long one can take to beat.

the exp on fates now aren't terrible especially when you get the fate exp buff but it becomes not worth because of how long to solo a fate plus with the new system of anyone on the map at all makes a fate harder even though noone will touch them just hurts anyone who wants to do one.

The issue with FATEs is currently reward vs time.

At the moment, FATEs give a little bit of experience (About 100k-150k in SB, going up to 200k-230k with Twist of Fate bonus), insignificant amounts of Gil and insignificant amounts of GC seals (Which are an outdated currency and have been since ARR >.>)

Meanwhile, you have Dungeons and PotD/HoH that give a ton of experience (Like 1-3 million in SB), give a small amount of Gil, can give a TON of GC seals (From trading in loot), and also can give Poetics (Largely outdated currency, but at least semi-relevant for ARR/HW relic collectors)

Meaning, that in order to similar experience to doing 1 duty, you have to complete 5-20 FATEs (Depending on if you're lucky with Twist of Fate bonuses, most likely you'll see 1-2 within the time it takes to clear out a bunch so it's more like 10-20 average) and if you want Gil/GC seals/Poetics it is just hands down better to never do a FATE over a duty.

Thus the time to complete a FATE should be about 10-20x faster than a duty. It is not. A duty takes like 15-20 minutes. FATEs take about 5 minutes (Maybe longer if you are solo)

So basically, the easy way to make FATEs relevant, is to buff their rewards to being actually worth the time it takes to do them.

Flat out double their base experience gain (So 200k-300k in SB so about 400k-600k for Twist of Fate bonus). Increase their gil reward by 10x (So you get 2k gil per FATE with gold reward). Slap in some semi-relevant currencies such as Poetics for ARR/HW, Mendacity for 60-68 and Genesis for the level 69 FATEs so that FATE farmers can then purchase tome gear when they reach relevant levels (Potentially add in a few more sets to purchase at like level 30, 55 and 65 to make currency while leveling relevant)

Something like that would go a long way to making FATE farming somewhat relevant, even if it's just while leveling.

If you wanted to promote Trains too, put in daily bonuses in specific zones. Each day will be a new zone that gets like 50% more rewards and maybe some Genesis tomes irregardless of level range. That way people will funnel into the same zone to farm FATEs.

In addition, you can increase the rewards for completing the Raid FATEs. For example, put a weekly raid page reward for doing a specific Raid FATE. So that Raid FATEs are also worth doing.

If they extended a small amount of allied seals and/or centurio seals to them at higher levels the fates might become relavent. But I can see a lot of blowback from the Hunting community if that happened.

I don't want them tied to a relic, but I would like to see fate trains again like back in ARR for leveling. Fates in SB brought a really neat addition, I love the twist of fate buff and the exp buff from the maidens.

I still do fates at higher levels if I need a super small amount of exp, but it always feels like unless you have a huge group doing fates, they just take too long, especially if a few people leave because of the scaling.

At launch of Shadowbringers FATEs in new areas will be active because they'll, once again, have relevant rewards in the form of exclusive item drops and achievements (which will provide either titles or items when redeemed at Jonathas).

Long term, they'd have to adjust the immediate rewards (EXP, gil, seals, etc.) and/or provide additional tiers to the FATE-related entries in the Challenge log and/or make daily FATE-related challenges a thing again (similar to ARR Allied Seal Dailies... which I never do because waiting for a FATE to spawn for however many Allied seals simply isn't worth it).


I mean, maybe FATEs do need a small buff for those that simply prefer to level that way. Personally I always thought they were trying to funnel ppl into more "party-play" activities for leveling on purpose to help populate dungeons for ppl that were progressing through MSQ. With the additions of Trusts in ShB to facilitate "solo'ing" MSQ dungeons... that will theoretically no longer be an issue though. So ehh...

If I remember correctly, didn't people used to bitch about FATEs giving similar exp/rewards to dungeons to the point where SE buffed dungeon rewards to make them more enticing, especially after the griping about dragging out the one FATE in Northern Thanalan to milk exp out of it?

Thank you to those offering ideas for improving fates. Even if I don't like your idea (I haven't really seen any so far that I'd complain about) I appreciate taking the time to contribute.

People want FATE trains. People do hunt trains. Just combine FATE and hunts. (I know Yoshida said it's difficult to use FATE system for hunt, so better start working on it now so it'll be ready by 6.0. :p)

FATEs were never great?

I mean, ones like the Battle for Highbridge series of FATEs had potential, but at the end of the day SE opted to abandon developing that concept and instead just went for more copy and paste "Kill big boss" "Kill wave of enemies" FATEs ad nauseum, but sometimes they have funny pop culture references in the description, so it's all good! /s

I'd love to see FATEs with more consequences, makes the world feel more organic... Harder to design though, harder to balance, harder to put rewards into, I mean the Highbridge style FATEs basically just determined whether a NPC that sells a minion is there or not? Not the most pressing of rewards, but like I said, there was potential there...

In terms of "fixing" what we've got though... I never understood why FATEs rewards were so pathetic... Grand Company Seals are a lame reward anyway, but FATEs give so little... Fix that... Max level so the EXP reward is moot? Do like most other things and substitute Tomestones in... Could even throw Treasure Maps in as rare rewards, given other than the highest tier one, nobody gathers the rest... Open world content rewarding you with more open world content? Madness. *actually I'd roll that into GC Seals, since I've long believed you should be able to buy all Maps off GCs, except the highest tier/special ones of course, but that's somewhat off topic, make FATEs a solid GC Seal farming option though and it's all good

Really, can you imagine if the EXP was converted to even just Mendacity tomestones at max level? The random bonus EXP FATEs and Forlorn Maiden spawns would actually feel really rewarding...

Make FATEs great again. Trump, is that you.... ?

On a more serious note though if FATEs had something that made it worth doing then perhaps they could attract more players to take part. It could be like a Wondrous Tales book but for FATEs, you do so many or complete certain ones with a week (or two) and players can earn rewards at the end. Doesn't need to be anything difficult or time consuming, but it could be the little extra incentive you know.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

In my opinion this is an issue that deserves petitions and uproar. Fates need to become important again. In HW they became less important until you had to farm them for the relic weapon. In Stormblood I have never seen groups of players doing fates. A few times I soloed one here and there, and on rare occasions someone would join in. But for the most part they go completely untouched.

One idea I have is to combine fates with the concept of Eureka. Tie it to the relic weapon. Instead of going into an instanced zone make it so that by completing a certain number of fates it spawns a max level fate which drops a specific item you need. And you must have your relic weapon equipped during the fate to get the item.

Of course there are some details to work out. So what are your ideas to make fates a relevant part of the game again?

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As long as Fates are simply boring and take way to long to kill, for what they give, i don't want to see SE tying stuff to them AGAIN.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

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The problem with all of this is that most players will choose the path of least resistance. If FATEs gave comparable EXP and rewards to dungeons, then fewer people would run dungeons. Then there is also the fact that tying just about anything to FATEs seems to set players off, along with the extremely annoying FATE notification noise when you enter the circle which interrupts the BGM or mount music. Most don't like it, but they'll do them if they have to. FATEs are a withering plant, and much like battlecraft leves, probably should just be left to die.

Normally I have a suggestion or two on how to keep things relevant, but I am drawing a blank with FATEs. Even if they did give more exp and rewards, they're not even that fun to do. If the majority of the playerbase echos my thoughts on this, then creating more in ShB is a complete total waste of dev resources. Of course, I would love to hear suggestions on how to make them not only relevant, but also fun to do. However, increasing their exp and rewards is not one them, unfortunately.

Being able to level in FATEs during the ARR era made leveling DPS tolerable. Now it's just awful. No one wants to spam PotD/HoH for days to level a DPS. Dungeon queues still aren't great even when Squenix has tried to force everyone to level using dungeons. The reality is that FATE trains to level DPS was actually the best leveling method.

Dungeons suck anyways, I've been spamming dungeon roulettes to level my DRK and it's about as fun as watching paint dry. At least you're out in the open world seeing other players on your server and chatting with them during FATE trains.

I think it would be cool if they added a progression system to the fates. Essentially once you beat it once it gets a little harder and the rewards get better etc etc until you hit a certain clear amount then it gives you special minions, glamour, mounts, titles. I think this would be an interesting way for them to get a mix of players in different lower level zones hunting minions, titiles and also helping lower level and new players with those fates.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Illya

Being able to level in FATEs during the ARR era made leveling DPS tolerable. Now it's just awful. No one wants to spam PotD/HoH for days to level a DPS. Dungeon queues still aren't great even when Squenix has tried to force everyone to level using dungeons. The reality is that FATE trains to level DPS was actually the best leveling method.

Dungeons suck anyways, I've been spamming dungeon roulettes to level my DRK and it's about as fun as watching paint dry. At least you're out in the open world seeing other players on your server and chatting with them during FATE trains.

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One problem they're going to run into, and it's something all MMOs have trouble with, keeping leveling interesting after so many expansions. FFXIV has an advantage over most MMOs because of the MSQ. But they all eventually suffer from the perception that the current expansion is where the real content is. So you'll have a lot of people who purchase the level boost. And then you only have 10 levels to go through so I can understand not wanting fates to give a whole lot of xp. They don't want you to burn through those 10 levels too fast. But I agree 100% that there needs to be a worth while alternative to just running the duty finder over and over.

Fates struggle as a concept because they are a lot of hassle vs. reward.

It's not fun to complete a fate, then have to trek across the zone just to start a new one. Possibly getting there without time to get a meaningful reward. Contrast with dungeons, which give you a ton of exp bonuses, gear, etc, and you are generally earning exp the entire time you are inside. Fates are honestly best used while waiting for a queue for something better--honestly, I feel the game would do better without them and introducing something different.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Of course, I would love to hear suggestions on how to make them not only relevant, but also fun to do. However, increasing their exp and rewards is not one them, unfortunately.

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Make more like the lamb milking one. Cute, simple objectives.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

nothing is relevant unless you put something that makes people have to do them, all i really want is them to make all the fates easily soloable after like the first patch of an expansion like the .1 series since pretty much after that everyone has done the important fates for achievements and items and is done doing them and fates because pretty meh after because of how long one can take to beat.

the exp on fates now aren't terrible especially when you get the fate exp buff but it becomes not worth because of how long to solo a fate plus with the new system of anyone on the map at all makes a fate harder even though noone will touch them just hurts anyone who wants to do one.

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this ^


if there is anything i would change about FATE's, it would be to return them to a more solo friendly state. albeit, most are rather solo friendly as it is. but it is always a hit or miss, and you could end up wasting your time for an underwhelming reward, or no reward at all.


personally... i love FATE's. i love the idea there is just random encounters popping up over different parts of the map. it breathes a little life into the game world.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

One problem they're going to run into, and it's something all MMOs have trouble with, keeping leveling interesting after so many expansions. FFXIV has an advantage over most MMOs because of the MSQ.

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Though, for FFXIV its MSQ is both its advantage and its disadvantage.

Due to the whole "One character, all jobs" thing, you do the MSQ and level up 1 job. Great. Then you maybe do all the sidequests and level up a second job, a little bit slower. Okay.

Then... Everything is done... You have no more quests to do, but 13 (Soon, 15) other jobs you might want to level up...

At least with other games, each new class is a new character so you can do all the story quests and side quests again. It might get a little tedious, but it's efficient leveling and you can skip all the dialogue and cutscenes because you're already read/watched them.

FFXIV it's... Spam FATEs/Duties until your eyes bleed to level up the vast majority of jobs... New Game+ might help alleviate this... Except from my understanding it starts back from level 1 with the first ARR quest every time, and so likely will mean having to go through the whole of ARR and HW story to even be at a relevant point for leveling DNC/GNB let alone if you were just wanting to level your jobs from 70-80 >.>

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The problem with all of this is that most players will choose the path of least resistance. If FATEs gave comparable EXP and rewards to dungeons, then fewer people would run dungeons.

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Well, to be honest, the main thing to try and target is PotD/HoH. Since that's where all the DPS gather because its more efficient than queuing for DF.

So, if the choice ended up being level through Dungeons/Trials (This would necessitate Trials also becoming more experience efficient, especially its BS with daily bonus... Freaking Ifrit Normal in the Leveling Roulette eats your daily bonus and gives you crap experience for it >.>)

Or doing FATEs - Alongside something else in the overworld that is appealing to do.

Then that might end up working better. Trying to make FATEs not just redundant. Since the concept is fine, the implementation is just off.

As far as balancing it goes... You just need both options to provide unique rewards of similar worth. If both give the same experience per time, then people would then opt for one or the other based on the additional rewards.

An interesting idea might be to extend the "Daily Bonus" from Roulettes, so it lasts for several duty runs and provides something useful while leveling. Maybe take a page out of WoW and let it give level and class appropriate dungeon gear from a mystery bag. Maybe 5 times a day.

Then do something similar for FATEs. First 5 FATEs in the day give a bonus reward. Maybe something like Materia that has +experience to put into your fancy new gear you got from the dungeon bonus but that is destroyed upon removal?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

FATEs are a withering plant, and much like battlecraft leves, probably should just be left to die.

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I don't know... As it stands, if FATEs are left to die, then it basically just makes the overworld itself redundant. Meaning you may as well just make the game exist only through duty finder...

Want to gather something? DF your way into a quarry/field/forest.
MSQ? Every step just sends you to a solo instance.
Hunts? Too late it already got ninja pulled and killed.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Even if they did give more exp and rewards, they're not even that fun to do.

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You say that, but then there's people whom claim to actually enjoy Eureka. Which is literally, just FATE farming.

It is possible to create better FATEs, so they aren't mostly just "Kill a bunch of these trash mobs that are inexplicably lower level than the rest of the zone (But yet we'll punish you with less contribution if you attempt to do this FATE at the level of the mobs!)" or "Kill this one big dude with lots of HP that is basically just a thicc version of normal mobs in the zone"

It's merely a matter of having a look at how other games have done these types of "Open Quests". I mean, Warhammer Online did pretty great open quests, with an actually meaningful contribution system (One person would get gold contribution and would get a gold bag which would contain rare or better items, potentially even a set item. Other players could get silver and get a silver bag with rare items in and then there was bronze and they'd get a bronze bag full of gold or other currency)

You had a bunch of interesting mechanics in them too. Such as trying to stop a demon from running rampant by helping to complete its summoning and then killing it. Collecting items to fix things that are guarded by enemies (Rather than just handing them into a person and that's the FATE done >.>)

Heck, just thinking here, they could make a FATE where you go gather a bunch of cannonballs and then load them into the cannons... Then you use the cannons to blast away at some big old monster using that new FPS mechanic they brought in with SB.

Between deep dungeons and soon to be trusts, FATEs are just naturally succumbing to the wealth of options players have now. Trains were a thing in ARR simply because there wasn't really many other things to do. I would even include beast tribes in the list of things that have killed FATEs. ARR: pitiful exp, not super useful or relevant. HW/SB: hey, now it scales to job level, this is (probably) much more efficient than farming FATEs.

I'd say FATEs are still important for making the overworld seem active. Players may not be doing them very much, but it still manages to keep everywhere from feeling too static. I may not try fighting them, but I'll often at least fly by to see what they're about. And I'd say SB did a good job with introducing some new types. I think the content is always looked at to be improved.

But, the only way to "revive" them is to try to balance their time/rewards with all the other content players have available, and I'd wager that's getting increasingly difficult.

Still, would probably be worth it for them to start looking at maybe boosting rewards (or nerfing difficulty/scaling) very slightly, and gauging response. Doesn't need to be anything hugely sweeping major impact. Just, start making small changes and seeing how/if the meta shifts at all.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Though, for FFXIV its MSQ is both its advantage and its disadvantage.

Due to the whole "One character, all jobs" thing, you do the MSQ and level up 1 job. Great. Then you maybe do all the sidequests and level up a second job, a little bit slower. Okay.

Then... Everything is done... You have no more quests to do, but 13 (Soon, 15) other jobs you might want to level up...

At least with other games, each new class is a new character so you can do all the story quests and side quests again. It might get a little tedious, but it's efficient leveling and you can skip all the dialogue and cutscenes because you're already read/watched them.

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I think I read somewhere that the quests replayed through the New Game + system would have their corresponding exp rewards attatched? If that is true, then levelling through all the story quests again will be a possibility.

I want them to matter post max level, something tempting to do versus other content.