The time between Calamities

I suppose this counts as lore.

Is it me, or is the span of time between calamities not as big as it should be? I mean that in terms of length and how everyone but mystery man is reacting to it. Great for Ascians, but from what we've seen, it seems like it should have more presence. Like, something relayed to the player that this is heavier than what the game gives us.

The prior Calamities had hundreds of years between them. Bahamut happened, and apparently us winning would offset another so soon.

It feels like there should have been more than what the last patch gave us.

On the whole I agree.

If I had to guess, it's an anomaly caused by the crash and burn of 1.0. The easiest and most impressive way to rebuild the world was to trigger a Calamity, and yet the cycle of Calamities seemed like it was already going to be a big focal point of the story.

Thus the excuse: "Well, usually, it would take about 1,500 years for mankind to get back on its feet, re-advance technology, re-build cities, re-establish civilization, and finally have the nations sour on each other all over again so they can be manipulated to escalate their wars towards using Calamity-level weaponry. But look at all the damage Louisoix helped prevent! Now we can do it again so much sooner!"

A tad eyeroll-inducing, but what are the alternatives?

If Louisoix hadn't been at Cartenau, we probably would be looking at the destruction of all of Aldenard and Vylbrind at a minimum. No Louisoix means no Phoneix which means Bahamut never dissipates at Cartenau. Who knows what Bahamut would have done once he was finished trashing Cartenau? Well, maybe it's not quite so much of a mystery. We know he and Sophia had banded together before Bahamut was put into Dalamud and that Bahamut knew she was at Azys Lla. And he probably remembers Omega... So the Warring Triad and maybe Omega might be going on a rampage all over Aldenard. Meanwhile, Xande would probably be trying to open up the Voidgate for the Cloud of Darkness to come in... and Nidhogg is still assaulting Ishgard. I don't see Aldenard as we know it surviving any of that which means the Ascians would have to do their usual "wait for Society to become stable enough they start warring" thing.

The other possible explanation is that the 7th Umbral Calamity is the Calamity that marks the majority of the Shards being rejoined to Hydaelyn. That might cause Zodiark's seal to reach a tipping point where no matter what happens, it will fail. More Calamities just means it happens sooner rather then later. So some of the Ascians might decide that they should accelerate their usual time table no matter what the situation is on the Source.

Ordinarily there would be a lot more time between Calamities, but Louisoix managing to prevent the worst of the Seventh Umbral Calamity meant the civilizations of the world didn't collapse and could still be used to trigger another.

While things are still dangerous we've yet managed to prevent further Calamities, and with the Zodiark Arc set to end with Shadowbringers shouldn't be a major plot point past 5.3ish. So it'll all work out in the end!

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Originally Posted by Cilia

with the Zodiark Arc set to end with Shadowbringers shouldn't be a major plot point past 5.3ish. So it'll all work out in the end!

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I believe that was never specifically stated anywhere? If anything, since we are going to the moon in 7.0, that would be the earliest it would end. (Yes I know he said it as a joke).

I also don't remember hearing anywhere that Shadowbringers would end the "Zodiark arc".

It's going to involve the final Calamity (or thwarting it), but what lies beyond that? Is there something else at the heart of the universe that we need to resolve before this story comes to a close?

From memory, they had said a long time ago that they had the story planned out up to 6.0, so it would make sense that it's all one storyline rather than a grand multi-part story and one stand-alone part at the end of it.

Is the complete collapse of society required for a Rejoining, or is that just more of a nice-to-have for the Ascians? I was kind of under the impression that they simply required some significant advancement in order to even trigger anything, and that they'd simply wipe everything out in the same step in order to prevent anyone really getting wise to the whole scheme. It's not that past Calamities took 1,000s of years to occur, it's that civilization took that long to advance to the point where they could throw around thermonuclear-level magicks and such. All the Calamities wiped civilization clean, not because that was required, but because survivors might start piecing things together and that might thwart future plans... In fact that's exactly what has happened; Before Dalamud fell we were just starting to notice Ascians. We weren't wiped out, now we're very aware of them and the role they play in events, and are actively undermining their efforts constantly. They can keep attempting new Calamities now because Bahamut didn't really do any damage, no major players got taken out, everyone more-or-less has access to the same levels of advancement they had before. The conditions for another Calamity are still there, so another attempt can be made right away.

Basically, in order for them to trigger a Calamity, the board needs to have the right pieces. Usually a Calamity wipes the board clean, and they need to wait for it to repopulate. If it isn't wiped clean, then they can go for another Calamity right away, but the pieces start to get wise to events and can resist future attempts. Given they're immortal, waiting for society to build up again probably isn't too bad, certainly not compared to what they've had to deal with since 2.0 I imagine. How many potential Calamities have we stopped at this point? I count at least 3 just off the MSQ alone.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I also don't remember hearing anywhere that Shadowbringers would end the "Zodiark arc".

It's going to involve the final Calamity (or thwarting it), but what lies beyond that? Is there something else at the heart of the universe that we need to resolve before this story comes to a close?

From memory, they had said a long time ago that they had the story planned out up to 6.0, so it would make sense that it's all one storyline rather than a grand multi-part story and one stand-alone part at the end of it.

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Well, let's try to piece it together. The fight with Garlemald that we thought and were told was going to take centre-stage in this expansion actually seems to be taking a background role while we have our journey on the First. Right now, we only know 5 out of the (most likely, keeping in with both HW and SB) 6 open world zones and all of them appear to be Shard-based. Heck, we were told that Lakeland would be the first world zone in the expac that we would visit. If that last zone is Source-based and is the whole 'Take down the Garlean Empire' story, they are going to have to a lot of gap-filling to explain how we got there. And if it isn't, I doubt that story would be part of the 5.x series, unless they relegate all of our progress through Ilsabard as 'dungeons' or other instances, which I do not think would fly with most of us. It seems more likely that any 'Ilsabard' expansion would have to be 6.0 or later depending on how they direct the story.

From what I recall I think Louis kept us from experiencing the worst of it, and that as Phoenix he did something to the land's aether or something that allowed the world to go back into an Astral state much faster? I'd have to double check that but going of memory that was the case.

If anything it just feels odd to me that Bahamut technically even counts as a calamity compared to the other ones. He did some damage but when we swing around in 2.0 things are mostly fine. Sure there's trouble with primals and beastmen but the cities are standing and managing to hold things together. Maybe it was hell in that 5 year timeskip? But ultimately Bahamut's calamity just doesn't feel like it should even count next to the others.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

If anything it just feels odd to me that Bahamut technically even counts as a calamity compared to the other ones. He did some damage but when we swing around in 2.0 things are mostly fine. Sure there's trouble with primals and beastmen but the cities are standing and managing to hold things together. Maybe it was hell in that 5 year timeskip? But ultimately Bahamut's calamity just doesn't feel like it should even count next to the others.

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Mostly fine? Coerthas was a nice green highland before, and is now an icy waste. There are any number of landscape disruptions and climate/weather disruptions, and plenty of refugees whose homes were destroyed during the Calamity.
The city states are holding together, but only barely.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Mostly fine? Coerthas was a nice green highland before, and is now an icy waste. There are any number of landscape disruptions and climate/weather disruptions, and plenty of refugees whose homes were destroyed during the Calamity.
The city states are holding together, but only barely.

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Compared to all the other calamities where civlizations were ended, yeah.

Sure there's snow in Coerthas but the nation isn't collapsing because of it. Homes are destroyed but the city states are ultimately fine. The world took a bloody nose but nothing near as bad as the other calamities or even the midpoint of FF VI. Eorzea was given a bloody nose but was able to pick itself up and continue on.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Compared to all the other calamities where civlizations were ended, yeah.

Sure there's snow in Coerthas but the nation isn't collapsing because of it. Homes are destroyed but the city states are ultimately fine. The world took a bloody nose but nothing near as bad as the other calamities or even the midpoint of FF VI. Eorzea was given a bloody nose but was able to pick itself up and continue on.

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Is the collapse of civilization a necessary component of a Calamity though? I always thought it was just great chaotic catastrophic aetherical disturbance causing massive environmental change and the collapse of civilization is just a side effect of those things.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Is the collapse of civilization a necessary component of a Calamity though? I always thought it was just great chaotic catastrophic aetherical disturbance causing massive environmental change and the collapse of civilization is just a side effect of those things.

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Ehh.

I'd actually say rejoinings and calamities have slightly different definitions. What you just described would be a rejoining, and Bahamut definitely counted as that. But everyone who's not an Ascian has no idea what a rejoining is. They don't know about the atherial disturbance stuff. To them, the Calamities were disasters that destroyed civilizations. And by that standard, it is pretty weird that Eorzea's people count Bahamut as one when he didn't cause anywhere near the devastation of previous Calamities (granted he only didn't because Louisoix stopped him, but that's just it: Louisoux stopped him).

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

To them, the Calamities were disasters that destroyed civilizations. And by that standard, it is pretty weird that Eorzea's people count Bahamut as one when he didn't cause anywhere near the devastation of previous Calamities (granted he only didn't because Louisoix stopped him, but that's just it: Louisoux stopped him).

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I think it depends what part you define as the Calamity. The disaster still happened. If you think of it as a bomb, the bomb still went off - they were warned this time, they tried to defuse it, but they couldn't. It still exploded, and they just managed to contain the blast.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think it depends what part you define as the Calamity. The disaster still happened. If you think of it as a bomb, the bomb still went off - they were warned this time, they tried to defuse it, but they couldn't. It still exploded, and they just managed to contain the blast.

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Additionally, I'm pretty sure folks in-game refer to what happened with Bahamut as a Calamity, and marked it as the beginning of the Seventh Umbral Era, just as prior Calamities have invoked Umbral Eras. They're the ones who define what a Calamity is, and if they're willing to assign it that identifier, then I think we can assume it's the case. They also declared the onset of the Seventh Astral Era a mere five years after that Calamity, to drive the point home just how little damage this Calamity did, compared to most.

Hydaelyn also told us that "seven times the Ascians succeeded" meaning yes, that was the seventh rejoining.