Dwarves' primal

So the Dwarves (the Lalafell from The First) are a beast tribe, and beast tribes usually have primals. Will the Dwarves have one as well?

When they were confirmed as a Beast Tribe, I remember a quest of the Doman kids back in 3.0, in which the main antagonist was a Lalafell named Gagarua. At some point, just to distract us, Gagarua calls primal Valefor to attack us (but nothing happens).

Will Valefor appear as the Dwarves' primal? And since Gagarua called it... was he actually a Dwarf from The First?

I don't know, but their mount better be a tank.

I don't want to fight another Calcabrena.

It's not a primal (in that instance), it's questionable if the "winged beast" that Gagarua was trying to call even exists, considering he used his summons to bluff an escape, and he's just from some country that was conquered by Garlemald, not the First.

I suspect Nerrick and Giott to be important NPCs (hopefully), but as for a Primal (since the Tower of Babil has been cannibalized and strewn apart several pieces of XIV content nowadays) perhaps we'll settle on Goldemar? There's a LOT of Dwarf related mythos to pull from, especially when a Dwarven religion is somewhat rare in the Final Fantasy series, I think.

And just think, they wasted a perfectly good mythological figure in Fafnir on Eureka when it could've been brought to the First!

I think Valefor shows up as an add in the World of Darkness at some point? Don't quite remember right now.

Personally I'm hoping it ends up being one of the Twelve/the First Shard's version of the Twelve.

I wonder if the First will even have Primals... Titania and Innocence seem to fall into more of an "other" category to me, similar perhaps to the auspices...

It would make sense from a law standpoint; The Warriors of Light on the First won. They beat all the Primals and that's what caused this mess... With us being there to fix matters, would it make sense to also go about felling Primals? If anything I imagine we'd be actively encouraging them to pop up, not putting them down... Lahabrea specifically stated that their plan on the Source was to sow chaos via the Primals after all... Perhaps a Ramuh style Primal encounter where it's more of a test? Just with the role reversed. We encourage the Dwarves to summon a Primal, then put it against ourselves as a trial to make sure it's up to the task of fending off Sin Eaters, perhaps?

As for what they'd summon, if at all, I'd rule out anything with an origin on the Source. Simply because I'm anticipating a lot of Final Fantasy V fan service with Shadowbringers, I'm going to go with the Magus Sisters. What's that? The Magus Sisters weren't in Final Fantasy V? Sorry sorry, I meant Phobos, Nereid, and Triton. Bosses of the Deep Sea Trench in Final Fantasy V, where the Dwarves were located, and as a trio boss they effectively meet Magus Sister criteria to my mind.

Going back to my previous point, if we want them to summon a Primal, then having them summon a trio-Primal seems like it'd be 3x as effective for our goals, no? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

As for Valefor, I believe Gagarua based his bluff off the stolen tome, which had Far Eastern origins? Been a while since I've done that quest though... I kind of figured Valefor might be an auspice at this point, with the Labyrinth of the Ancients Voidsent of the same name being a similar case to Halicarnassus; A Voidsent named after resemblance to some legend. The Valefor we've encountered thus far are just Voidsent, but they reminded someone of the Valefor, so we slapped the name on them. Here's to hoping the Doman Adventurer's Guild can get back to having a questline, now that they're safely back in Doma... They had their own tab in the journal IIRC, always felt like there should be more added to it...

Nu Mou and Pixies will have primals.
Dwarves with be a crafter/gatherer race.

I don't think every Beast Tribe automatically has to have a Primal. That was the conceit of AAR but we've been kinda moving away from that. In HW, we focused on exploring "civilised" Summonings while the Vanu and Gnath Primals were sorta... just there in the background and ultimately not relevant to the main plot. And in SB, Shinryu was the only relevant primal and used more as a plot device to justify the Scions getting officially involved in the war more than anything else, while Lakshimi and Susano both popped out of nowhere, surprising even their own summoners. And Tsukuyomi was also a non-Beast-Tribe summoning, used as a means to an end and not even involving any outstanding acts of worship. Meanwhile Namazu and Qirim were never stated to even have Primals connected to them at all.

If anything, by this point, Primals are starting to become an in-world meme. Anyone can have one, at any time, with or without preparation, with or without a ritual, with or without a connection to a Beast Tribe.

So I think maybe Dwarves don't even have one. Or have no interest in Summoning, just like Namazu (although... I'm not so sure helping them with the festival was a good idea. Why do I have a feeling the whole Big One thing will come back to bite the world eventually and it will all be our fault?)

Another possibility is maybe the Beast Tribes on the First don't have a history of summoning? It could be that the Pixies are an exception and Titania is one of those non-standard Primals like Tsukuyomi and Shiva. They did imply that she might be important to the MSQ, which no regular BT Primals have been for a very very long time.

Namazus don't have a primal, even though they have a blief in the BIG ONE (whatever that might be)

My curiosity is more about which classic summon we'll be getting. So far we haven't been shown a summon from previous entries. We could get a surprise like Knights of the Round, but we don't know yet.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

My curiosity is more about which classic summon we'll be getting. So far we haven't been shown a summon from previous entries. We could get a surprise like Knights of the Round, but we don't know yet.

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Eden, though what it looks like anyones guess XD will it look like ffVIII or FFXIII version or both :P but if your talking MSQ i'm hoping we see the Magus sisters or Anima only 2 summons from ffX not yet in the game

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Eden, though what it looks like anyones guess XD will it look like ffVIII or FFXIII version or both :P but if your talking MSQ i'm hoping we see the Magus sisters or Anima only 2 summons from ffX not yet in the game

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While I admit Shadowbringers seems to be a bit VIII heavy, we don't know if Eden is going to be a "primal" based on the Summon, or more of a literal reference to the Garden of Eden; though the summon itself is a reference too.

Eden aside though, I'd love the Magus Sisters or Anima, more female summons would be great. And Anima is so unconventional so double yay.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

While I admit Shadowbringers seems to be a bit VIII heavy, we don't know if Eden is going to be a "primal" based on the Summon, or more of a literal reference to the Garden of Eden; though the summon itself is a reference too.

Eden aside though, I'd love the Magus Sisters or Anima, more female summons would be great. And Anima is so unconventional so double yay.

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I'm currently wondering what ff7 thing will be in last dungeon/trial

Maduin/Madeen would fit the whole holy/light theme, and Anima might fit in there as a contrast to it in some way but im not sure how it would be introduced.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I'm currently wondering what ff7 thing will be in last dungeon/trial

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The shift from final trail to a more general reference with Stormblood certainly opens up wider possibilities... I assume they'll still be sticking to the whole FFVII nostalgia trip on the finale of the expansion story at least, while not having a FFVII inspired final boss like all the previous finales, Stormblood was much more heavy on the references overall I feel... We had a Mako Cannon, Nibelheim reactor pods, and Aulus was a very weak Hojo I guess...

I've speculated this before, but Don Corneo has to make an appearance at some point... Eulmore seems the perfect location to slap him in, and what do you know, Thancred is shown running around there... Enjoy the squatting minigame, Thancred. Heck, Eulmore even seems to have a garbage dump, not to mention an expansive underground section based on the trailer... That seals it, the final boss of Shadowbringers has to be Aps!

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Maduin/Madeen would fit the whole holy/light theme, and Anima might fit in there as a contrast to it in some way but im not sure how it would be introduced.

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There are two slight issues though:

Maduin and Madeen are separate summons. The former being a male demonic humanoid summon, most know as Terra's father. And the later being a female lion-esc beast with wings, mostly remembered from IX as Mog. The confusion comes from them both sharing a similar name origin and inconsistencies with the English translations. But if you look at their Japanese names they are different. All that aside they are both light aspected summons, so maybe.

In regards to Anima, while it's not impossible, the concept of anima and animus deals more with duality and ones soul. But SE has made changes in the past.

But despite everything I said the inclusion of Madeen and Anima would be great. More female "primals" with non-humanoid looks, are always welcome.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Namazus don't have a primal, even though they have a blief in the BIG ONE (whatever that might be)

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the bigh fish in the sky (river?)

As for potential dwarf primal maybe Rubicante from ff4?

i distinctly recall in all versions of ffiv that there were a couple of dwarves that worshiped the fat chocobo. when talked to they said "Fat chocobo?! blasphemy! tis the God's bird!!"

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

As for potential dwarf primal maybe Rubicante from ff4?

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I'd like it if for nothing else than to have Battle With The Four Fiends in the game.

Moradin.

Fight me.

https://ffx.sakura.ne.jp/ff14/img2/ffxiv_Shantotto.jpg

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Namazus don't have a primal, even though they have a blief in the BIG ONE (whatever that might be)

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As noted in the first quest - Gyoshin's vision of his "greatest grandsire, shrouded in light" ordering him to hold the festival. Sounds like a grand candidate for getting primalified at some point. All it would take is a few words from a mysterious traveller about a splendidly cultural summoning rite...

The optional (and non-combat) nature of the Namazu quests might be the only thing saving us from it.

I hope we won't have 5.0 5.1 and 5.3 trials MSQ related and 5.2 5.4 and 5.5 trials out of a bland storyline...
Having all trials linked to the MSQ, a bit like ARR for instance.
Or the first can't have summonings in the same way, and trials are more a fight against Sin Eaters and such.
You know, for a change...

Dwarve primal is just a Roe with a lalafell head

Ark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bb2X1jJvkA

This might be a stretch, but considering they seem to be moving away from "Classic" summons/primals they could be going a different route and give the dwarves Ymir/Brimir as a primal due to dwarves being rooted in Norse mythology and were created by the giant Ymir/Brimir.

Clearly, the Dwarves' primal needs to be Snow White!

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Originally Posted by Heliantheae

I'd like it if for nothing else than to have Battle With The Four Fiends in the game.

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I'm kinda hoping they will feature in one of the tiers for the upcoming Raids. Our only clue so far is that we need to "gather elements", but it occurred to me that the Four Fiends conveniently have the same number of members as there are battles in a raid. So, for instance, ShB Raid floors 1, 2, 3, and 4 could be Lich, Marilith, Kraken, and Tiamat (different Tiamat than the one sealed in Azys Lla, of course). Floors 5, 6, 7, and 8 could be Scarmiglione, Cagnazzo, Barbariccia, and Rubicante. Unfortunately, there are no more Fiend teams to populate floors 9, 10, 11, and 12 - but those might wind up having special enemies, like Omega's final tier did. Also, Ice and Lightning aren't represented by either team of Four Fiends; perhaps floors 9 and 10 will be notable Ice and Lightning enemies plucked from FF history, and 11, and 12 will be the raid primary antagonists.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

As noted in the first quest - Gyoshin's vision of his "greatest grandsire, shrouded in light" ordering him to hold the festival. Sounds like a grand candidate for getting primalified at some point. All it would take is a few words from a mysterious traveller about a splendidly cultural summoning rite...

The optional (and non-combat) nature of the Namazu quests might be the only thing saving us from it.

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Possibly but apparently they've been ignored for some reasons.





Nah, we all know the reasons, they are just fillings for the steppe Buutz they are unworthy of having a primal

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Originally Posted by Levy9

Ark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bb2X1jJvkA

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We already have Ark and It's called Cruise Chaser

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Originally Posted by ShadowSolaris7

We already have Ark and It's called Cruise Chaser

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Yeah, totally forgot about that. It was late ok <.<

Anima, then.

I'm not sure if there will be a second leveling primal this time around.

Now this is purely speculation, but we're getting an extra dungeon compared to SB and HW.

They may only want to have one relevant EX primal around for 5.0, to avoid one of their weapon sets being better than the other, or having to give one of the primals accessories or something which can be a bit of a letdown like they did with Lakshmi.

Now it's ENTIRELY possible there's going to be another primal in 5.0 and I'm just reading too much into things, but I think it's plausible that they decided to make one leveling primal and one msq finale trial for 5.0, with Titania EX being the 5.0 ex primal, and whatever the level 80 boss is as the 5.1 ex primal, and give us an extra dungeon to make up for it.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I'm not sure if there will be a second leveling primal this time around.

Now this is purely speculation, but we're getting an extra dungeon compared to SB and HW.

They may only want to have one relevant EX primal around for 5.0, to avoid one of their weapon sets being better than the other, or having to give one of the primals accessories or something which can be a bit of a letdown like they did with Lakshmi.

Now it's ENTIRELY possible there's going to be another primal in 5.0 and I'm just reading too much into things, but I think it's plausible that they decided to make one leveling primal and one msq finale trial for 5.0, with Titania EX being the 5.0 ex primal, and whatever the level 80 boss is as the 5.1 ex primal, and give us an extra dungeon to make up for it.

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Innocence has been named as another 5.0 "primal," though the jury is still out on whether it actually is a primal or just a non-primal trial like the Four Lords. Unless Innocence is the final boss and they don't mind giving that away, we do have two leveling primals (or "primals" in Innocence's case).

I'm kind of getting the feeling the Dwarves are the Moogles/Namazu of ShB. Granted there's not much to go on, but we may want to look at a potential Nu Mou primal instead.

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Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

Innocence has been named as another 5.0 "primal," though the jury is still out on whether it actually is a primal or just a non-primal trial like the Four Lords. Unless Innocence is the final boss and they don't mind giving that away, we do have two leveling primals (or "primals" in Innocence's case).

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Ah that could be then. I somehow forgot about Innocence maybe because my mind was in 'primals are linked to beast tribe' mode but there's really no need that all the msq trial fights 'need' to be primals. I suppose it could go either way then, though I'm thinking I was probably wrong as this would feel like an odd way to announce who the 5.0 boss is.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I'm kind of getting the feeling the Dwarves are the Moogles/Namazu of ShB. Granted there's not much to go on, but we may want to look at a potential Nu Mou primal instead.

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Do you mean that in the way of crafters, or in the way of not fighting a Primal during the main story at that time. If it's about crafting, just remember that the Ananta were pegged to be the crafters since that's how they were described, and yet the Namazu became that tribe. As for the "primals" remember that the Moogles have Mog. So there are curveballs to throw us off.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Do you mean that in the way of crafters, or in the way of not fighting a Primal during the main story at that time. If it's about crafting, just remember that the Ananta were pegged to be the crafters since that's how they were described, and yet the Namazu became that tribe. As for the "primals" remember that the Moogles have Mog. So there are curveballs to throw us off.

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Weren't the Qiqirn in the Peaks pegged to be the crafters originally, but the Namazu were so popular that they stole the spotlight? That's why were have a virtually unused set of Veggie-Qiqirn assets from the Peaks (shows up in 1 FATE and a couple quests afaik). Honestly, given how Source-lite this expansion is shaping up to be, I hope they can be the crafters for this expansion some how... Is kind of sad seeing clear signs for them to be set up in the Peaks, but having the prospect of perhaps never seeing them implemented... Wished they'd tried something new and perhaps said "Qiqirn = Gatherers, Namazu = Crafters", or something...

But yeah, so far the Namazu are the exception to the rule, not the standard. Ixali, have a primal. Mogs, kinda have a primal. I don't think "Crafter tribe = no primal" is a hard and fast rule.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Weren't the Qiqirn in the Peaks pegged to be the crafters originally, but the Namazu were so popular that they stole the spotlight? That's why were have a virtually unused set of Veggie-Qiqirn assets from the Peaks (shows up in 1 FATE and a couple quests afaik). Honestly, given how Source-lite this expansion is shaping up to be, I hope they can be the crafters for this expansion some how... Is kind of sad seeing clear signs for them to be set up in the Peaks, but having the prospect of perhaps never seeing them implemented... Wished they'd tried something new and perhaps said "Qiqirn = Gatherers, Namazu = Crafters", or something...

But yeah, so far the Namazu are the exception to the rule, not the standard. Ixali, have a primal. Mogs, kinda have a primal. I don't think "Crafter tribe = no primal" is a hard and fast rule.

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As much as it annoys me that it feels like the deves were more interested in the far east than gyr abania in SB....I think they probably made the right call here. I had to admit I found the Namazu quests funny while the Qiqs never really interested me.

Then again I didn't come around to the Namazu until their beast tribe quests so maybe they could have pulled me in as well.

With Nu mou, pixies and dwarves all listed as beast tribes though I wouldn't count on them being brought up in ShB. Looks like we have all three lined up it's just a matter of which one will be the crafter/gatherer beast tribe.

Yeah, it's a shame... Guess the Qiqirn are just going on the same shelf as the poor forgotten Mamool Ja... Heck though, at least they got a dungeon based around them, as well as perhaps any development through potential New World/Blue Mage content in the future... Now that I mention the Mamool Ja and Blue Mage though... My money is on Qiqirn being involved with Beastmaster in a similar fashion...