FFXIV GRAPHICS UPDATE/OVERHAUL - WHEN???

FFXIV GRAPHICS UPDATE/OVERHAUL - WHEN???:mad:

At the current rate probably never. Or at least not in a meaningful way.

PROBABLY NEVER!

Like seriously, graphics overhauls and updates are pretty extensive. If they were serious about doing it, itd probably be an xpac thing, not a patch thing.

Please looke forward to it 2030.

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Q: [...] Is there a chance of FFXIV getting higher graphics settings?

Yoshida: I get asked this a lot lately. The other day it was in China, so I guess it might be a worldwide topic of interest. If you're asking me if there's a possibility in the future, then the answer is probably yes, there is. But if you're asking if we have it planned right now, the answer is no. We don't have anything planned and it's not in any of our milestones.

The reason is very clear. Of course, BD5 is researching and working on new graphics. We can't distance ourselves from the latest game development techniques, so we're doing our own tests as well. But FFXIV already has 20,000 assets for equipment alone, and I don't even want to think about how much it would cost to convert all of them to the new graphics pipeline.

Since FFXIV had PS3 support, its graphics technology is 2 generations behind. If we had high poly models/hi-res textures ((unclear)) then we could just swap them out, but we don't. A lot of things were created low poly/low-res from the start for cost-saving, so we would have to recreate all of them in order for the improved graphics to look good.

Some people say that if we don't spend those costs now then we won't be competitive with other games, but right now, we're still plenty competitive within the MMO genre, so there's no need to rush yet. Plus, we have to measure what percentage of players are actually using these new GPUs. And so long as FFXIV continues to support the PS4, I absolutely want to avoid mixing the graphics pipelines. If that's the case, then we can't focus solely on the PC, and it's hard to consider it until, say, the PS4 is replaced by the next generation. Right now, I think our priority should be figuring out how to more efficiently create lots of assets.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_soken_at/

Time will tell, they did a couple engine updates during the period where they phased out the PS3 life-cycle out so they could welcome the PS4's life-cycle into the game.

But those updates were a bit minor and was only to reflect updates the PC version was pushing for, like the Volumetric lighting, advanced tessellation and various other DX11 features.

I don't know what the Crystal tools engine is capable of in terms of scalability in it's job doing the pixel math, but i can only think of things like what physically-based-rendering does for games.

This post from 2018 is a good window into Yoshida's headspace at least in terms of what they have on their minds.

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Originally Posted by TheVigilant

In a very recent interview, Yoshi answered important questions which answered some of my thoughts about the subject, some of which were gladdening to me while others saddened me, I've underline the positive in blue and the negative in red:

https://i.ibb.co/0X5Xkpt/Capture-Recovered.jpg

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EDIT: Holy cow that image got too small.

https://i.imgur.com/YzPeKTJ.jpg

Even if the engine magically became the best game engine ever, the FFXIV dev team can't be trusted to make good use of it. The current engine doesn't impede them to make good cut-scene for example, but 99% of cutscenes are trash because the direction of the game is all about quantity.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

I don't know what the Crystal tools engine is capable of in terms of scalability in it's job doing the pixel math, but i can only think of things like what physically-based-rendering does for games.

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Crystal Tools was even worse than what they use now, at least in terms of working in an MMO.

It's probably a bit more complex than he describes here, but this interview from when they were working on finishing up 1.0 and putting together 2.0 has a bit about the development of the game engine (and how it isn't just a modified Luminous Engine either):

https://gamerescape.com/2011/10/19/g...-is-out-there/

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Originally Posted by Genz

Even if the engine magically became the best game engine ever, the FFXIV dev team can't be trusted to make good use of it. The current engine doesn't impede them to make good cut-scene for example, but 99% of cutscenes are trash because the direction of the game is all about quantity.

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Like most development projects that run on a deadline, it's a matter of balancing time with what you want to get done. The more a cut-scene relies on special or custom animations, etc., the longer it takes to produce (motion capture is a part of the process for some of this stuff, so it's not always about having an animator sit down and move a rig around for a bit*). Also worth noting that they've been working in more custom animations for scenes the past year or so, though my guess is you've not bothtered to notice them.

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXicFulNqI8 In case you don't believe me about the motion capture being part of the animation process. Skip to 1:11 if you want to go straight to the relevant part of the video.

I get the feeling he said we'll 'lose a raid tier' if they started making these advancements. What I would give for long hair that... isn't plastic in motion capability.

For those unaware, this was an excuse the WoW dev team gave its player base for things demanded that wasn't the norm. Yoshi P, certainly does love this quick and dirty dev style huh? I suppose perhaps (considering the Chara race issues now) that he really doesn't have all the time and money to work with.

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Originally Posted by Remind

FFXIV GRAPHICS UPDATE/OVERHAUL - WHEN???:mad:

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When people stop trying to play games on macs and $150 Walmart bargain PCs. >.>

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Originally Posted by TitaniaZero

I get the feeling he said we'll 'lose a raid tier' if they started making these advancements. What I would give for long hair that... isn't plastic in motion capability.

For those unaware, this was an excuse the WoW dev team gave its player base for things demanded that wasn't the norm. Yoshi P, certainly does love this quick and dirty dev style huh? I suppose perhaps (considering the Chara race issues now) that he really doesn't have all the time and money to work with.

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He said before that he had to petition his superiors for years to get the extra funds needed for the server movements that happened with 4.0. The XIV team seems to operate off a very strict budget.

In my opinion, they need to completely rebuild the game engine to modern standards. I don't see that happening at all unless they do an FFXIV-2 or something.

It'd be a dream come true if that happened. No matter how good FFXIV already looks, I'm a fan of improving graphics to the fullest. At the very least I'd love less stiff clothing and hair.
Sadly, reality seems to make those things an impossible dream for the time being ;w;

They barely have enough staff to keep up the amount of content they've promised us, there's no way they can push any major improvements.

Graphic upgrade pls.

Inb4 PS4 & low-end/ aging pc limitations kek

Probably wont happen anytime soon since people think content is the highest priorities. I'd gladly take an extra year for better graphics and overall performance to the game. But silly old me doesnt matter in the grand scheme so /shrug

Sadly people would riot if they did a complete overhaul. Not because people so do not wish for better graphics and performance more so that players will not understand such an undertaking would take time and other forms of content would have to sit on the back burner.

Though maybe more importantly the higher ups within SE do not want such an undertaking to be done because it could lower current revenue stream.

I'd love better graphics.
I'd also love getting the backend sorted out to get rid of all these limitations that keep preventing us from getting nice things.

FFXIV on DX11 with Reshade on can still rival the best graphics intensive MMO like BDO remastered.

Although it would be nice if FFXIV gets remastered one day. Some of the textures on the ground/rocks/clothes is just so blurry and pixalated.

FFXIV remastered plus some new Long Term Replayable Large Scale Content like Eureka would be great xD. Maybe i would not find majority of the playerbase RPing in Uldah by then lol.

Assuming that the main concerns are texture-related (ie, yuck Hien's coat) then theoretically, assuming that there wasn't a huge load on the art department, they could do some things in order to spruce up some of the more obviously glaring texture issues. Right now it's not difficult to implement textures that are of a higher resolution (there are plenty of texture hacks that show that it's very possible), the only questions are really around how much work should be done.

Do you upgrade everything to a 1k minimum texture? Do you only do the new things such that the older gear / zones look worse? Do you upgrade everything and eat the time/fiscal cost right away but take a long time and maintain a similar amount of quality throughout the content?

If I had to guess, most people want everything (they like) from 3.0 onwards to look better in terms of textures, but even if they stuck to that arbitrary number, there's a lot of stuff to upgrade, and that takes a not inconsiderable amount of time. If I were in SE's shoes I'd be a bit leery about changing things from how they are now because of the potential debt you might have to stuff you released in the past. Once someone sees character X in 5.0 for example in a decent texture everyone's going to ask about the stuff that came before, and saying 'no' isn't popular, and saying 'well maybe' is dodging the question.

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Originally Posted by Kelryth

In my opinion, they need to completely rebuild the game engine to modern standards. I don't see that happening at all unless they do an FFXIV-2 or something.

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I wouldn't expect a rebuild of the game engine for anything less than a sequel. I can't think of an MMO that has gone and rebuilt its game engine while running the game as a live product.

I think the game generally looks fine overall. What does need to be done though is fixing of SOME of the character costumes though and certain models. They don't necessarily have to do everything at once of course but some items like Hien's costume for example are GLARINGLY bad quality and the pixelation really sticks out. If they could go about they should start by re-texturing some of the worst offenders of course that stick out the most. Those are the one's in serious need of fixing. They don't have to do everything of course the enviroments are still incredibly beautiful and the game definately isn't that bad it just need's fixing in some parts.

The game engine overall is pretty good of course I hope they plan accordingly to be able to do an engine upgrade/overhaul down the line at some point so we don't risk what happened to FFXI where they didn't port the original dev tools and were stuck using outdated hardware to update the game.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

I wouldn't expect a rebuild of the game engine for anything less than a sequel. I can't think of an MMO that has gone and rebuilt its game engine while running the game as a live product.

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Black Desert Online did last year xD. Game was launched on 2016. But then again it's easy to remaster a game when its still small.

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Originally Posted by Raiya

The game engine overall is pretty good of course I hope they plan accordingly to be able to do an engine upgrade/overhaul down the line at some point so we don't risk what happened to FFXI where they didn't port the original dev tools and were stuck using outdated hardware to update the game.

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Graphically the game looks fine imo. It is what lies beneath it all that supposedly limits us. WoW, despite its many failures in recent years, upgrades their engine every expansion. SE could and should do the same. Want more money, SE? Give people what they want. Well, to a point.

Lol I saw some textures on Hien's robe earlier in the new quest-line and some of the details were extremely pixelated.

I don't want them to sacrifice content development for the sake of overhauling graphics, I think they hold up extremely well compared to most other MMO's today, but yeah it would be nice for them to work on it if they can without sacrificing other aspects of the game.

They would make a new ff mmo before they rebuild the game on a new engine

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Originally Posted by Derio

They would make a new ff mmo before they rebuild the game on a new engine

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the real question is....Will there ever be another FF MMO?

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Originally Posted by Tatiana

the real question is....Will there ever be another FF MMO?

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Probably between never and really far away. They're extremely expensive to make and right now the MMO genre is basically dying and down to FFXIV and ESO as the only two decent MMO on the market.

While it's not an upgrade, I'd love if they added a middle option for shadow cascading because the Best setting currently makes extremely distant objects get an awful flickering effect on them, while Normal renders shadows within such a limited radius that there's a lot of pop-in while moving.

There needs to be an in-between.

I wonder if they've thought of using AI to do some of the work in up-scaling the textures. There's been some news articles lately showing off the possibilities of what AI can do, so maybe that would be a cost effective way of doing it.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Black Desert Online did last year xD. Game was launched on 2016. But then again it's easy to remaster a game when its still small.

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That was a graphic overhaul, and while one of their scope is impressive (along with the audio improvements that came with it), they aren't the first to do it.

There's a significant difference between that and an overhaul of the game engine, which is the part of the game that handles everything from rendering graphics, to collision detection, to memory management, and quite a bit more.. The game engine is essentially the software framework within which pretty much the entire game works.

If you're talking about doing a complete rebuild of the game engine (as the person I quoted suggested they do), you're basically talking about making a brand new game, which is why it's basically sequel territory.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Black Desert Online did last year xD. Game was launched on 2016. But then again it's easy to remaster a game when its still small.

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A remaster is not even on the same level as a complete rebuild and overhaul of the graphics engine. They aren't even in the same realm.

No thanks. The game looks fine; content lulls are the biggest issue we have atm.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No thanks. The game looks fine; content lulls are the biggest issue we have atm.

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Updating the engine and updating the graphics aren't really the same thing, but you have to consider what is underneath it all. The game LOOKS fine, I can agree with that. The game is not BUILT fine though and apparently limits everything that they can do, or so they would have us believe. We're not talking about appearances, we are talking about what allows those appearances and lets us run the content they give us. Aka, what's under the hood of this "vehicle". We will never know what the reality of the situation is but the game is apparently very, very limited in its capabilities.

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Updating the engine and updating the graphics aren't really the same thing.

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I don't really know/care what the difference is. The topic is addressing a "graphics update/overhaul", and that's what I'm responding to.


I think we have far more critical matters at hand.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I think we have far more critical matters at hand.

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Like updating the engine. :)

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Originally Posted by RareItems

Black Desert Online did last year xD. Game was launched on 2016. But then again it's easy to remaster a game when its still small.

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BDO also had high res textures to begin with. If you read the interview, XIV never made them to begin with. BDO remastered mostly added new shading and lighting, but I can't say the textures themselves changed (and why all the issues with BDO remastered had everything to do with lighting and effect).

For XIV to update their graphics, I'd could imagine them reusing older assets more as they looked to create higher resolutions of them in the future. That'd give them more time and resources, but then they'd have player backlash, as we've already seen the 'Ugh, these are the same outfits from 3.x and 2.x! It's not even original looking gear!' However, I can't see XIV promising better graphics in the future when it'd be a long undertaking (like 4+ years, maybe more?) given every expansion has seen 2 new jobs added with 2 expansions having earned 3 new jobs, plus new gear every major content patch.

BDO also basically has no content and I often compare the game to Minecraft or Runescape. Just pretty.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Like updating the engine. :)

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Considering XIV uses the same engine as XV, I don't think it's the engine itself. Love XV, hate XV, XV looks gorgeous.

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Like updating the engine.

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I don't feel like that's what's to blame for our content lulls, so nah, not on board with this necessarily. (Refer to your own WoW mention for another example of this; despite regular overhauls the game is still apparently struggling now, so what are these overhauls really fixing/addressing?)


Maybe if you actually specified what/how exactly "The Engine" limits the devs in its current iteration and how an overhaul would allow them, both in terms of technical limitations and their own man hours/resources, to address those limits, then you might get more people on board with this idea.

I heard for long time now engine to game is running about at its max limits. If keeps it up it is going to break. I would thought by now they been working on a new engine or update this engine so can handle graphics ones want.