Changes to early game with 5.0?

I've been having a hard time getting new players to stick out the early game.

Even starting a new character myself to play through with them. It is terribly painful.


1. Main Story Progression: Heavensward and Stormblood are vastly more modernized as far as questing as concerned. But ARR mixes what feels like side quests into the mandatory main story line boring new players to death. Constant back and forth doesn't help either.

2. Classes availability: All 7 new classes are locked behind level or main story progression. Friends almost always choose a class that is not available at the beginning so they start with immediate disappointment and settling for something they don't want. For example, there is only one healer skill rebalance destroy it.

3. The skill balances from the last two expansions have destroyed early gameplay. Many skills were removed from early game to make room for those in late game. Classes like conjurer are so terribly boring people are quitting the game over it.



Potions of advancement are currently the best (only?) way I can deal with it. Even this is not a smooth transition though and most quit rather than deal with complicated process required to finally play Good content with the class they want (with a completed tool kit)

Does the product team know about any of this? What will be done in 5.0 to address it? Help me help you, SquareEnix

This is the problem that the standard MMO approach to content slowly causes to fester, and which tends to kill games over time. Even if they streamline it and make things easier, they can only do so by making it more boring, in most cases.

In the case of ARR, removing some of the boring errand quests may help, but it could also damage the story a bit.

Usually, MMOs take the same approaches FFXIV is: skip potions, buffed XP at lower levels, and content made easier. There are problems with those solutions, though. Skip potions are of no use for people who want to do the story, buffing XP is largely useless because players cannot access content until they do the relevant story, and making content easier for new players gives a bad impression ot the game.

As a new player in an MMO, here is how I usually feel:

I want to play through the story, even if it's not great. I want to feel challenged so that I can actually learn the game. And I want to be able to have fun with all the great content I pass by on thr way to end game.

As it stands, though the playerbase is the largest obstacle to that. Players are the ones that encourage developers to throw away old content and constantly shower them with shiny new things. Players are the ones that outright abandon perfectly good content, thereby encouraging the developers to throw it away. And this constantly moves the point at which new players can participate later and later, creating an ever-larger gap for them to cross.

If new players were able to enjoy end-game style content with an active playerbase, by Lv. 50, they would be able to have fun while doing the MSQ at their own pace.

In all fairness the "constant back and forth" never really goes away. I literally just had to detour back to Kugane from Yanxia, for, like, half a quest, just a few minutes, to go and pick up a package from Tataru, to take back to Yanxia. Ffs, we're building up for a war, and you want to send your star player on a gopher errand.

So, personally, I don't really understand how folks want to praise expansion stories while deriding ARR, when the causes for a lot of the complaints are still present throughout.

Don't get me wrong. From a game development perspective, I get it. The quests always serve one purpose or another. I don't terribly mind them either way. I just think players need to recognize that's simply what MMO stories do. They want to keep you busy. The more busy work you have to do, the longer you stay subbed.

I think if they put the teleports into ARR like they started doing in Stormblood when you and an npc are going to the same place right away it would help a little. Then there's the pacing of ARR that would need work two early examples are the Titan and Garuda bits where one has you go about getting items for a feast that's for you that you don't even know is for you until the end and the npcs are all why are you so mad? Then with Garuda it feels like the npc who we get the stone from along with his students don't even know their own research. So by the time you get the correct one it's already made you remember the Titan part of the story.

I don't know what else you'd do to make it faster or more enjoyable but at least it's not XI before the devs put in so many short cuts you'll trip over them and you had hour long jogs from one place to another sometimes through high level monsters that you had to sneak and turn invisible for.

Well this is a very story heavy game compared to other MMOs out there, maybe explain that too new players you invite to take it slow and enjoy the ride. Not sure what New Game+ is going to do but it might let you play along with new players through ARR main storyline?

ARR and 2.XX series was an odd beast because they really wanted to give players a lot of stuff to do in between patch which meant all those MSQ quest. As you said, HW and SB really streamlined everything for a better experience.

Wouldn't be so bad for new players if they just do away with teleport fees and add give out more gil for all the quests. Crafting quests cost you more to teleport and gather the mats needed for it than what make off it.

Last I heard they wanted to work on trimming the quests out so only the important ones are mandatory and moving some of the fetch ones out into optional quests. I believe it is something they have expressed interest in doing for a while now but currently don't have time for since they are in expansion crunch right now.

Honestly after starting over a few weeks ago, I don't find travel as much of an annoyance as the really long story quests to get through. ARR is a long long slog of a chain to get through.

It’s those after ultima weapon quest right before HW, I made an alt and almost quit myself lol they need to do away with the 2.XX quest and tie it into one question and going into the steps of faith fight. HW isn’t bad and neither is SB but ARR is quickly killing this games new additions quicker then Titan hard mode when it was first introduced XD

Jokes aside I can’t keep friends playing either and they all quit before they reach HW because ARR is such a slog and becomes almost a chore to do.

I've been doing some science on an alt. I only just now cleared Heavensward, so I'd like to say the new player experience needs to be improved substantially. I keep seeing a lot of people treading level 60-65 and rolling dozens of alts but never even reaching Stormblood, which does them a huge disservice in terms of gameplay.

For Shadowbringers, I actually hope they let any new character start at level 50-60 on a job of their choosing, with all relevant content unlocked, so they can actually enjoy the real game. Players that are interested in the storyline then have the option of going to New Game + or, if they want to put less effort in, inn room cutscenes.

I think it would also help if they made all the jobs available when you make your character. They can't do that for Dark Knight, Machinist, and Astrologian since they are in Ishgard, but Samurai and Redmage, Gunbreaker and Dancer are going to start in ARR areas. Even if they don't have job quests till the current level they could let people start them at level 1 when they make their character as long as they have the appropriate expansion installed.

I'm sure the 2.xx post 50 quests were fine at the time, gotta fill out that three year gap somehow.
But those 50 quests are pretty unacceptable now, it's easily the biggest deterrent to newer players when just to finish ARR you have to go through essentially a whole expansion worth of quests, more than 50% of which are menial fetch quests designed specifically to waste your time until the new HW expansion comes out which already happened four years ago.

I don't like streamlining just for the sake of streamlining, but something in there's gotta go.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

In all fairness the "constant back and forth" never really goes away. I literally just had to detour back to Kugane from Yanxia.......

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HW and SB is are order of magnitude less than ARR's 'back and forth' especially the 2.XX questing line.

To everyone else, I'm not complaining because I hated it back at release. I loved it. More than enough to get through it and here I am still. But the attrition rates and new players quitting before they can experience or enjoy the game that we currently play... that is not a matter of opinion or debate. It happens. You and I want it fixed and so do new players wanting to join an excellent trinity role MMO rather than listen to the constant litany of "It gets better, I promise". Its rough. Try it if you dare, you'll be shocked. It makes sense why new player attrition rates are knill.

I listed the biggest issues they have. Anyone have tips as it seems Square will not be addressing it in 5.0? I have a couple:

- Start in Limsa (wide open areas and decent enough story) People seem to dislike the Forest (all looks the same to new folks)
- Arcanist class or Rougue (@lvl10). Arcanist gets a great healer and DPS options. Marauder is still fun as a first class (if they have MMO Tank experience)
- Avoid Conjurer till the early game skills are re-balanced. The only healer but horrid to play now (nothing like it was when I played through). Boring for a long while... I'd rather recommend Scholar if they wanna heal at 30
- Use have them use the Story Potion (if needed) after chocobo is obtained and they have a grasp on stuff. Heavensward or Stormblood depends on the person
- Its a mainline Final Fantasy game so make sure they know this is not WoW's gogogogogogo rush to endgame. That will set them up for a long disappointing slog.
- Lastly, SET EXPECTATIONS. The game you play vs the new person is vastly different. Lvl 30 and on the story really picks up. Let them know that story/skills/pacing all improve but it takes a while.



The goal is to get our friends to join the game we keep talking about or show raid boss fights too. Does anyone have other good tips?

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Originally Posted by CaptnYesterday

HW and SB is are order of magnitude less than ARR's 'back and forth' especially the 2.XX questing line.

To everyone else, I'm not complaining because I hated it back at release. I loved it. More than enough to get through it and here I am still. But the attrition rates and new players quitting before they can experience or enjoy the game that we currently play... that is not a matter of opinion or debate. It happens. You and I want it fixed and so do new players wanting to join an excellent trinity role MMO rather than listen to the constant litany of "It gets better, I promise". Its rough. Try it if you dare, you'll be shocked. It makes sense why new player attrition rates are knill.

I listed the biggest issues they have. Anyone have tips as it seems Square will not be addressing it in 5.0? I have a couple:

- Start in Limsa (wide open areas and decent enough story) People seem to dislike the Forest (all looks the same to new folks)
- Arcanist class or Rougue (@lvl10). Arcanist gets a great healer and DPS options. Marauder is still fun as a first class (if they have MMO Tank experience)
- Avoid Conjurer till the early game skills are re-balanced. The only healer but horrid to play now (nothing like it was when I played through). Boring for a long while... I'd rather recommend Scholar if they wanna heal at 30
- Use have them use the Story Potion (if needed) after chocobo is obtained and they have a grasp on stuff. Heavensward or Stormblood depends on the person
- Its a mainline Final Fantasy game so make sure they know this is not WoW's gogogogogogo rush to endgame. That will set them up for a long disappointing slog.
- Lastly, SET EXPECTATIONS. The game you play vs the new person is vastly different. Lvl 30 and on the story really picks up. Let them know that story/skills/pacing all improve but it takes a while.



The goal is to get our friends to join the game we keep talking about or show raid boss fights too. Does anyone have other good tips?

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The single best tip I can give any new player is if they can't handle the endless questing, don't feel bad for getting a storyline/level skip if the alternative is they quit.

Have to keep in mind the leveling process in ARR is VASTLY longer than any of the expacs, even if you level through a chunk faster even before all the xp buffs its 50 lvls vs. 10. And this mind set of "the real game" is probably killing more newbies than everything else combined, its like telling them the story is worthless once your 70 and endgame grinding your finally playing FFXIV.

For the record, I've done ARRs entire MSQ 7 times already, hopefully my last round of it will be done before Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well this is a very story heavy game compared to other MMOs out there, maybe explain that too new players you invite to take it slow and enjoy the ride. Not sure what New Game+ is going to do but it might let you play along with new players through ARR main storyline?

ARR and 2.XX series was an odd beast because they really wanted to give players a lot of stuff to do in between patch which meant all those MSQ quest. As you said, HW and SB really streamlined everything for a better experience.

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Well apparently, with New Game+, the redone quests still offer the exp they did before, so its another alternative for leveling up alt jobs, but don't quote me on that.

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

Have to keep in mind the leveling process in ARR is VASTLY longer than any of the expacs, even if you level through a chunk faster even before all the xp buffs its 50 lvls vs. 10. And this mind set of "the real game" is probably killing more newbies than everything else combined, its like telling them the story is worthless once your 70 and endgame grinding your finally playing FFXIV.

For the record, I've done ARRs entire MSQ 7 times already, hopefully my last round of it will be done before Shadowbringers.

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I'm very happy you enjoy the questing and the story. What usually happens, however, is people clear the msq once and never touch it again once they unlock the real game.

Don't get me wrong, as a whole I enjoyed the ARR story line.
The good parts are good.
But the bad parts of it... are really bad.

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

Have to keep in mind the leveling process in ARR is VASTLY longer than any of the expacs, even if you level through a chunk faster even before all the xp buffs its 50 lvls vs. 10. And this mind set of "the real game" is probably killing more newbies than everything else combined, its like telling them the story is worthless once your 70 and endgame grinding your finally playing FFXIV.

For the record, I've done ARRs entire MSQ 7 times already, hopefully my last round of it will be done before Shadowbringers.

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The mind set of "the real game" is killing newbies across the entire MMO genre.

The trend in MMOs these days is to run with an established system and not innovate. Innovation comes with inherent risk, so most MMO developers opt to take the slow death by the endlessly widening sea of dead content than try something new and potentially nuke their entire playerbase. As we can all see clearly in the wake if FanFest, even relatively minor changes to established systems can cause people to fly into a rage.

Some MMOs have tried to innovate. One of those that I have experience with is RuneScape. That innovation largely failed, and they paid a price for it, but the game is still going strong, albeit now as a divided community across two versions of the same game.

In any case, as someone who is tired and disinterested in the current trend, I'm all for FFXIV taking some risks and trying to innovate. However, the more likely outcome is that they will refuse to innovate, until possibly after FFXIV falls out of its prime. Once a new online FF is released and FFXIV stops receiving expansions, I think it will actually be a much better experience for new players.

That's some irony for you.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I'm very happy you enjoy the questing and the story. What usually happens, however, is people clear the msq once and never touch it again once they unlock the real game.

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It's still boring as hell and the fact is it's taken me almost 5 years to still not clear ARR on one of my chars... got 4 or 5 done during ARR (Started X-Mas before HW), 2 or 3 more done during HW, and atm only 3 of mine are at 70 in SB, I've gotten waaaay lazy on it. I had 3 60s before Alexander Gordias in HW. At this point I mostly skip cutscenes that don't have interesting content, tho it was fun seeing the w/ w/o certain jobs leveled at some points of the game. NIN/DRG have a few points in ARR where the dialogue changes based on what you have leveled. I want to say Arcanist has one somewhere too...

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

The mind set of "the real game" is killing newbies across the entire MMO genre.
~snip~

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Yep pretty much, and horizontal progression MMOs are quite rare, and even rarer are the cases where they are successful. Tried WoW/EQ1/EQ2 last month after not having touched them for about a decade... bored the hell out of me. It might be time to have a pre-defined lifespan on MMOs. Maybe 10 years or so then just work on the new on at around the time of expansion 5/6.

My partner started the game yesterday so I am going through it with him and boy this is tedious...
I am not a cash-shop person but I start thinking that this story potion could be worth it...

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

My partner started the game yesterday so I am going through it with him and boy this is tedious...
I am not a cash-shop person but I start thinking that this story potion could be worth it...

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Its worth it! I've never bought anything else but the ARR's MSQ skip potion is almost a requirement to keep normal new players from quitting when faced with early game (and especially 2.xx). I don't usually recommend the leveling potion because this game has such fantastic and fast paced leveling content. Dungeons, Roulettes, Daily beast tribes, PotD, and even those damn Leves can be fun. Potion lets you open all of that up fast. Mix it all up to level and try out different classes. Then hit HW and SB head on and enjoy modernized MSQ progression as well as lvl 50+ skill kits that start making combat awesome.


Only... why is it necessary to micromanage new players experience to keep them from bailing? Isn't this something the Devs recognize as killing the game's bottom-line?

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Last I heard they wanted to work on trimming the quests out so only the important ones are mandatory and moving some of the fetch ones out into optional quests. I believe it is something they have expressed interest in doing for a while now but currently don't have time for since they are in expansion crunch right now.

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This is so bizarre to me, from a business perspective. Of course, you can't sustain an MMO with new players alone. An expansion always has to have a decent amount of late-game / endgame content for the existing community. But an expansion release also always draws in new players, yet SE will retain almost none of them if the beginning of the game isn't any good. Now would be the perfect time to finally work on that overhaul they promised almost a year ago.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

...But an expansion release also always draws in new players, yet SE will retain almost none of them if the beginning of the game isn't any good....

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This. Could not have put it better. Really was hoping for a shakeup in 5.0, but looks like no dice and no meaningful influx of new players.