Missing Genders: the summurise thread.

Hi guys.

First, the original post about this topic from 2011: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...emale-Roegadyn

Before you will write here anything please go there and look how calm and respectful people were in their asking for male Miqo'te and female Highlanders/Roegadyns. Act in the same way, please.

I did not find the thread from 1.0 in JP Forum but if you have a link - please share, I will add it to the post.

There is also a poll, which you can participate in, if you want to: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ra-Hrothgar%29

Next. A translation of last interview with Yoshida: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...w_with_yoship/

The question I want to bring up:

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Q: When did you decide to implement the female-only Viera and male-only Hrothgar?
A: It was during Return to Ivalice, around 3 months after 4.0. Viera was confirmed then, and Hrothgar came about the same time when we were discussing plans with Matsuno-san. We were deciding whether to make a Hrothgar female or Viera female, and after selecting Viera, work began right away, because otherwise we wouldn't make it in time. As mentioned before, the face parts are special and Hrothgar has big differences between its faces, like a lion face, wolf face, leopard face. It became fixed model relatively recently. Viera was done right before Paris Fan Fest, and Hrothgar was done recently.

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As you can see, both races are barely finished and SE is on very harsh schedule right now. At this point making female Viera and male Hrothgar for now has more sense, because in case if they pick female Hrothgar (for whom we have representing in FF10) they will be faced with male Viera then (for whom we have nothing but arts from 3.0) while they are almost late even with recent options. Notice, that Yoshida-P says nothing about lore, that's all about resources. Friendly reminder that Yoshida was against the genderlock in 2.0 so he is not our enemy.

UPD. Here is a message about the fact that there was a mistranslation in the interview so I think I should to add it here as well in case if you do not read all messages. It does not really change a lot in its core, but better to know than not:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

As I pointed out in the other thread, I'll repeat it here:

Just a note, that translation is not quite correct. What Yoshida said was that about 3 months after 4.0, they decided to implement Hrothgar. But they also wanted to make Viera. So the choice was between making female Hrothgar, or making female Viera. Meaning if they hadn't decided to make the female Viera, all we would have gotten would have been male and female Hrothgar.

Nothing against OP's post... just wanted to point out the poor translation of quoted passage.

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The thing we would like to know now is if they going to work on counterparts for both races and if yes, when it will be: 6/7.0 or later since the schedule is very harsh and they still have other important things to work on. If no, it will be up to the community to try to change their mind as it was in 2011 in calm way.

UPD. The MrHappy's interview with Yoshida-P: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...vPw4uI/preview

I ask you to NOT BRING UP topics like sexism or discrimination at least in this thread. Screaming "I'm offended" is not how you should ask for things. Also, FF14 itself is far from being sexist and discriminating and did many things in direction where people can have same-sex marriages, males have very open glamours, and females clothes are not eternal "pants armor".

For both teams I also ask to not insult each other.
Thank you.

I have been saying they might make the opposing gender in 5.x or 6.0. It is odd to see them without the other one but I know 3D modeling and texture work take time. I want to see them in game but I am not gonna scream to the heavens for one.

Off-topic.. its pretty funny seeing the people in that old post who were against it, race changed to the races they were opposed to.

On-topic, overall the community today are handling the subject poorly. You can't even go on reddit, its literally just everyone raging hard about Male Viera, if you have a different opinion you are insulted and downvoted to the shadow realm. I don't care too much about them either way, what rubs me the wrong way are the people for these things.

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Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm

You can't even go on reddit... ...if you have a different opinion you are insulted and downvoted to the shadow realm.

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Yup. Par the course for reddit then.


On-topic, thanks for finding that old thread. Will make for an interesting read.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

As you can see, both races are barely finished and SE is on very harsh schedule right now. At this point making female Viera and male Hrothgar for now has more sense, because in case if they pick female Hrothgar (for whom we have representing in FF10) they will be faced with male Viera then (for whom we have nothing but arts from 3.0) while they are almost late even with recent options. Notice, that Yoshida-P says nothing about lore, that's all about resources. Friendly reminder that Yoshida was against the genderlock in 2.0 so he is not our enemy.

The thing we would like to know now is if they going to work on counterparts for both races and if yes, when it will be: 6/7.0 or later since the schedule is very harsh and they still have other things to work on. If no, it will be up to the community to try to change their mind as it was in 2011 in calm way.

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Yeah, once we're all past the disappointment of not having the other gender for these races, we're probably all gonna come to the conclusion of: "Its understandable you can't get it done now, but please, do get around to it when you can."

Considering the timeframe of when they decided on the current solution, and when they first brought Fran in, the earliest they could probably implement Female Hrothgar and Male Viera is by 5.5, as if they decided during 4.0 and we only got to see the result by 4.5, then the remaining set won't be ready until 5.5 at the earliest. That said, we don't have Female Viera OR Male Hrothgar in our hands right now either, and we're not getting them till 5.0, we're not sure if they're already ready and just waiting for the release, or if they're still going to be tweaking the models all the way up until release. So yeah, probably not until 6.0 unless they feel like giving it as pre-expansion content like they did with Rogue/Ninja and Blue Mage.

Personally looking forward to them eventually making female Hrothgar now that they've announced Hrothgar, and most of my friends were looking forward to male Viera. One of which also hoped for some elaboration on the two tribes of Viera, as they really wanted some short Viera, but that's another story.

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Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm

Off-topic.. its pretty funny seeing the people in that old post who were against it, race changed to the races they were opposed to.

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I find it quite ironic. I am personally almost sure that if (or when) DevTeam will eventually release missing genders - the half of those who are against now will actually swap to them. XD

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Originally Posted by Cidel

On-topic, thanks for finding that old thread. Will make for an interesting read.

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You're welcome! Quite interesting is that negative arguments there are quite the same as they are now.

It would've been amazing to have handsome Viera males. I hope they give us male Viera and female Hrothgars in the future.
There's a poll showing data and it's very clear there's a huge interest for male Viera, I've been wanting to see one since 2006 and I'm probably not the only one.

As I pointed out in the other thread, I'll repeat it here:

Just a note, that translation is not quite correct. What Yoshida said was that about 3 months after 4.0, they decided to implement Hrothgar. But they also wanted to make Viera. So the choice was between making female Hrothgar, or making female Viera. Meaning if they hadn't decided to make the female Viera, all we would have gotten would have been male and female Hrothgar.

Nothing against OP's post... just wanted to point out the poor translation of quoted passage.


Just so you know how I know that, I live in Japan and am fluent in Japanese.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

As I pointed out in the other thread, I'll repeat it here:

Just a note, that translation is not quite correct. What Yoshida said was that about 3 months after 4.0, they decided to implement Hrothgar. But they also wanted to make Viera. So the choice was between making female Hrothgar, or making female Viera. Meaning if they hadn't decided to make the female Viera, all we would have gotten would have been male and female Hrothgar.

Nothing against OP's post... just wanted to point out the poor translation of quoted passage.


Just so you know how I know that, I live in Japan and am fluent in Japanese.

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Thank you for this clarification!

Still, the purpose of the post remains the same: make people calm and constructive in their askings.

To be quite honest I think there would be less negative if they ended up just with Hrothgars. In this case people could just continue to ask for Vieras, but without the recent situation.

The main difference between then and now, though, is that back then they were asking to change a status quo that had existed for years. This time around, it was a sudden shock to the system. People were hoping for one thing, and got another instead. They saw something "taken away" that they had assumed, from past experience, they would be getting. Naturally the reaction would be different.

That said, I agree that people should take some time to calm down a little. Be disgruntled all you like, but posting in anger or other upset doesn't usually make for productive discussion. On all sides - insulting developers and/or accusing them of all kinds of things is not okay, but needling and snidely insulting fellow players who were disappointed is little better.

This is the first time I've seen that interview question amidst all the outrage over the genderlocked races, so thank you for pointing it out! This gives me hope that we'll see the missing genders implemented in the next expansion, maybe. Fingers crossed!

Considering theyre asking for feedback on this so soon after FF, I think they can see that there is a large part of the fanbase who isnt sold on the genderlocking. If I had to make a bet, we probably will - either as a mid xpac update to keep interest, or part of the next xpac. New races are huge selling points to MMOs. Its partially why I think the devs announcing not having any new races after this was strange. Youre closing the door on a big source of revenue (not only in people playing hte game, but in prolonged purchases of things like fantasia.)

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Its partially why I think the devs announcing not having any new races after this was strange. Youre closing the door on a big source of revenue (not only in people playing hte game, but in prolonged purchases of things like fantasia.)

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I can understand why they said it, though. Since FF14 for now is 5.5 years old - there are tones of armor that they should to adjust for new races. According to database from Lodestone there are 8000+ armor items for now, which they should mod now until the launch of 5.0. Some of them looks in special way on different races and genders as well. I can only assume how much items there will be in the end of Shadowbringers. About 10000+? So if there, in the end, will be a decision to implement male Vieras and female Hrothgars or another new race - it will be very stressful for them. At some time, maybe somewhere in, let's say, 8.0 adding new race will ask for the whole expansion itself. Or they will need to reconsider their current workflow, which they actually probably should do already, because they look very tired.

This is how you make a post for constructive criticism and feedback.

This is a good thread.