Primal Drops for Blue Mage

I know this may not even be considered side-content for a lot of players but I have enjoyed the limited job that is Blu. That being said, the drop-rate for the Blue Mage Primal abilities are atrociously low. I mean terribad. Teraflare bad, even! The drop rate is lower than the pony whistles for cryin' out loud!

I think they have the drop-rates backward imo. I think the overworld mobs you get Blu skills from should be lower, considering the fact most you can solo and almost all of them are available on demand. Primal Blu drops should definitely be upped just a bit due to the time one has to set a side to form a party in PF and people leaving the party and having to start over from scratch.

I was running Shiva Ex with a group for about 2 1/2 hours and got nothing. The lyrics of her theme really seem to take on new meaning for me now "Wake up in sweat, full of regret, try to forget.." Yeah, that was us.

To be fair, these are understood woes and hardships of pony, bird and now wolf farming and is generally known to be par for the course. So I reeeally think SE should bump them up to the mount whistle drops, for the love! That's pretty fair. Those are still, by no means, frequently dropped.

Anyway, if anyone else feels the same way, plz feel free to comment.

Many people were long since tired of the old primals before blu was released, having farmed them for 5+ years for other reasons like mount, WT, helping friends, roulette, etc. To be made to grind them more than ever before for a close to zero chance of learning a spell when your starting point is already having grinded those fights more times than you should have to repeat anything in your life...

I don't think it's necessary for learn rates on those spells to be horrendous. Let people get them in a reasonable amount of time, and just let the carnival be the long term content part of blu rather than a torturous spell learning process.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Many people were long since tired of the old primals before blu was released, having farmed them for 5+ years for other reasons like mount, WT, helping friends, roulette, etc. To be made to grind them more than ever before for a close to zero chance of learning a spell when your starting point is already having grinded those fights more times than you should have to repeat anything in your life...

I don't think it's necessary for learn rates on those spells to be horrendous. Let people get them in a reasonable amount of time, and just let the carnival be the long term content part of blu rather than a torturous spell learning process.

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blue spells are suppose 2 be near torture 2 learn ... thats y many of us enjoy blue mage it actually requires patience and farming effort

Don't confuse difficulty with chance. Chance had little to do with blue magic in the past (V, VII, IX)

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

blue spells are suppose 2 be near torture 2 learn ... thats y many of us enjoy blue mage it actually requires patience and farming effort

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Didn't expect anybody to strongly disagree with what I said. I'm not sure that 'enjoy' and 'torture' are compatible words, but remember a lot of people joined the game a long time ago (my actual join date 2012) and those primal battles are old content to these people. If you already cleared that Ifrit fight 1700 times across many years before BLU was even released, and then they want you to go back to it for a massive farm again with a lower chance reward than the mounts were, you might feel different about it. I think the primal spell learn rate is a bit excessively rare for no obvious reason and it's compounded by being linked to content that was long since worn out for legacy/ARR players. I did multi hour farms of Titan to get his spell, on multiple days, and saw the mount drop many times but never received the spell and then I gave up on it. Not worth it in my opinion until the learn rate is increased.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Didn't expect anybody to strongly disagree with what I said. I'm not sure that 'enjoy' and 'torture' are compatible words, but remember a lot of people joined the game a long time ago (my actual join date 2012) and those primal battles are old content to these people. If you already cleared that Ifrit fight 1700 times across many years before BLU was even released, and then they want you to go back to it for a massive farm again with a lower chance reward than the mounts were, you might feel different about it. I think the primal spell learn rate is a bit excessively rare for no obvious reason and it's compounded by being linked to content that was long since worn out for legacy/ARR players. I did multi hour farms of Titan to get his spell, on multiple days, and saw the mount drop many times but never received the spell and then I gave up on it. Not worth it in my opinion until the learn rate is increased.

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i run levithan everyday well him and garuda and ive ran em since my first acc before hw.. be old or not they still slightly enjoyable

I saw Nightmare drop before I managed to learn Ifrit's move. They could stand a small buff but nothing overly drastic.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

blue spells are suppose 2 be near torture 2 learn ... thats y many of us enjoy blue mage it actually requires patience and farming effort

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I here what you're saying my friend. I too enjoy a challenge. This, however is not what I would define as a challenge. The coil was a challenge. Running these self-same trials capped and at minimum ilvl would provide a bit of a challenge. This is drudgery for the sake of it. I am in agreement with what others have said. Make the carnivale the challenging content. Heck, we know they're going to add on to it. In addition, like a few have said already, they are requiring a grueling, punishing grind for the remotest chance at an ability to drop from extreeemely old content that very long-time players, such as myself, have run so many freakin' times, it's criminal. To make matters worse, more often than not, a couple of the Blu's will have to run as 70. So if we're farming the trial for hours and it actually finally drops, then we have to continue farming it for the ones that were running as 70 and did not get it. Needless to say, it's very likely we won't see it drop after that. I was once in a run and I saw the pony whistle drop 6 times... S I X T I M E S … and the Blu ability never dropped. Testing one's mettle, pushing your skills to their limit? Yes that would be called a challenge. And we have all proven ourselves and met those challenges with these fights too many times to mention. Chance? RNG at it's most insidious? No that is just cruel and unusual punishment. Now that being said, I'm not saying that these abilities should be dropped super quick. I simply think they should adjust the rate to that of the pony whistles. That is fair. I realize you like the lengthiness and the patience required vs a challenge but most aren't keen on "Hey remember those primals you grinded a googooplex times? Guess who's gotta do that somemooooore? :D"

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I saw Nightmare drop before I managed to learn Ifrit's move. They could stand a small buff but nothing overly drastic.

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Similar to me. I've ran shiva over 40 times (got the diamond dust to prove it) and have yet to learn glass dance.

Doing Titan I saw multiple Titan Ponies and Nightmares before I got my skill.

They need to increase the drop rate or give totems so you can learn the skill after 30 or so kills. This RNG stuff needs to go. It's not fun.

Three and a half hours of Ramuh HM yesterday. We went 2:3 swap at five runs.

Three people got their spell.

It'll get just as dumb if we have get any spells off from the HW primals when they up Blue to 60 or whatever they'll be rasing the cap to.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

It'll get just as dumb if we have get any spells off from the HW primals when they up Blue to 60 or whatever they'll be rasing the cap to.

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Can't wait for trying to get a spell from Sephirot EX while people at 80 still can't do tethers and towers.

i just find that if your not a masochist you probably shouldn't play blue mage

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I saw Nightmare drop before I managed to learn Ifrit's move. They could stand a small buff but nothing overly drastic.

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All I can say is what were you doing bothering with the EX Ifrit when normal is easily solo'd around level 30. >_>

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Can't wait for trying to get a spell from Sephirot EX while people at 80 still can't do tethers and towers.

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Or the Salt and rage for Zurvan because it's a 4/4 party and the blues are being blamed for not helping in skipping soar. Though heck I get people who don't know how to do earthshakers in hard. The only primal we might skip is Bismark as he doesn't directly attack people just controls the clouds mostly.

Not a single mainline title I’ve played has been as awful to learn your spells as this one. VI was tricky since sometimes you had to have Relm manipulate a monster into using its ability so Strago could learn it, but it wasn’t a terrible task.

If you stuck with it, you could learn all your blue magic for Khimari (with the exception of Nova) just running the story. Same with most of Quina’s Magic.

This game, I spend more time than it took to learn all the spells in other games, and don’t even learn one.

the skill drop rate is too low, and the content is super boring if you are doing it effeciently (with level 70 carriers) Getting skills should be a short term goal, and the difficulty could match the skill. It shouldnt take a level synced group more than 10 tries to unlock the skill, with the average being 5 tries. They should develop some other content/purpose to give blu reason to play the job outside of skills and carnivale

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Not a single mainline title I’ve played has been as awful to learn your spells as this one. VI was tricky since sometimes you had to have Relm manipulate a monster into using its ability so Strago could learn it, but it wasn’t a terrible task.

If you stuck with it, you could learn all your blue magic for Khimari (with the exception of Nova) just running the story. Same with most of Quina’s Magic.

This game, I spend more time than it took to learn all the spells in other games, and don’t even learn one.

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See i beg to differ at least with ffxiv no spell is missable whereas older single player games if you didn't know an enemy had a blue mage spell and was in a 1 time area or a 1 time boss gg start over to get them all. Now every iteration of blue mage has had rng incorporated into its learning process either through rng encounters or rng learning chance, with ffxiv being an mmo it had to adopt the latter did ffxiv take some abilities too far with rng chance absolutely yes.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

All I can say is what were you doing bothering with the EX Ifrit when normal is easily solo'd around level 30. >_>

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May have been before they fixed it so that story mode could actually drop the skill. That was bugged when BLU was first released.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

See i beg to differ at least with ffxiv no spell is missable whereas older single player games if you didn't know an enemy had a blue mage spell and was in a 1 time area or a 1 time boss gg start over to get them all. Now every iteration of blue mage has had rng incorporated into its learning process either through rng encounters or rng learning chance, with ffxiv being an mmo it had to adopt the latter did ffxiv take some abilities too far with rng chance absolutely yes.

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Laughs in Zombie Dragon glitch.

Wait, that's not funny.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

May have been before they fixed it so that story mode could actually drop the skill. That was bugged when BLU was first released.

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Exactly this. We were doing it launch week.

Fair enough. Honestly, I can tell I may have made a mistake not trying to push through it all in that first week as well. I don't think it'll still be all that hard getting groups together for stuff, but at the same time, now that the rush is over, holding groups together or sticking with them for the whole grind just feels like torture.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

See i beg to differ at least with ffxiv no spell is missable whereas older single player games if you didn't know an enemy had a blue mage spell and was in a 1 time area or a 1 time boss gg start over to get them all. Now every iteration of blue mage has had rng incorporated into its learning process either through rng encounters or rng learning chance, with ffxiv being an mmo it had to adopt the latter did ffxiv take some abilities too far with rng chance absolutely yes.

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Nova is the only spell I am aware of in the mainline, single-player titles that was permanently missable....

But even if I'm wrong in that regard, farming out all the generic blue magic in other titles takes less time than it takes to get MAYBE one primal ability in FFXIV. This doesn't make for enjoyable content, at least not for me.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Nova is the only spell I am aware of in the mainline, single-player titles that was permanently missable....

But even if I'm wrong in that regard, farming out all the generic blue magic in other titles takes less time than it takes to get MAYBE one primal ability in FFXIV. This doesn't make for enjoyable content, at least not for me.

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Nova(ffX), annihilator(ffX-2) you had max 5 chances to get this per new game, Pandora's Box(FF7) due to a bug you only get 1 shot when fighting your 1st Zombie dragon, Trine(FF7) only 3 bosses have this skill. Rest of the series they've been good at not making them missable but if you miss early game abilities you have to jump through hoops to get them like the level abilities in ffV if you get to lv 99(at that point you are overkill but you know can happen) or goblin punch in ff9 wait too long and you got to go after a rare mob encounter.

FFXIV has gone overboard with the rng chance to learn i'm just glad once you know location of ability it never moves or up to chance to face it and up to chance(as in completely random there is no set way it will use the ability you want even if you wait 100 turns) the ai uses said ability (scripted ai does have its benefits at times :P)

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Nova(ffX), annihilator(ffX-2) you had max 5 chances to get this per new game, Pandora's Box(FF7) due to a bug you only get 1 shot when fighting your 1st Zombie dragon, Trine(FF7) only 3 bosses have this skill. Rest of the series they've been good at not making them missable but if you miss early game abilities you have to jump through hoops to get them like the level abilities in ffV if you get to lv 99(at that point you are overkill but you know can happen) or goblin punch in ff9 wait too long and you got to go after a rare mob encounter.

FFXIV has gone overboard with the rng chance to learn i'm just glad once you know location of ability it never moves or up to chance to face it and up to chance(as in completely random there is no set way it will use the ability you want even if you wait 100 turns) the ai uses said ability (scripted ai does have its benefits at times :P)

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There was no RNG chance to learn in 5,7,or 9. If you did what needed to be done you got it (other than bugs). It should be more about figuring out what to do, not hoping for a rare drop.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

There was no RNG chance to learn in 5,7,or 9. If you did what needed to be done you got it (other than bugs). It should be more about figuring out what to do, not hoping for a rare drop.

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Rng encounter unless a boss, rng on said enemy using it and rng they hit the right character you wanted to learn it so yes there was rng chance to learn just no rng after the skill was used on said character. 3 instances of rng vs 1 in ffxiv. ffxiv is incredibly low rng chance but at least its 1 roll vs 3

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Rng encounter unless a boss, rng on said enemy using it and rng they hit the right character you wanted to learn it so yes there was rng chance to learn just no rng after the skill was used on said character. 3 instances of rng vs 1 in ffxiv. ffxiv is incredibly low rng chance but at least its 1 roll vs 3

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Those RNGs are just part of the battle system of the games involved, not something built into blue magic learning mechanics. (Some of those can be circumvented though use of other abilities.) That's like saying the mechanics of a boss fight represent a short coming in the blue magic learning mechanics.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Those RNGs are just part of the battle system of the games involved, not something built into blue magic learning mechanics. (Some of those can be circumvented though use of other abilities.) That's like saying the mechanics of a boss fight represent a short coming in the blue magic learning mechanics.

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But they are though you cannot learn blue magic in those games without going into battle thus any battle mechanic that can hinder it is tied to the learning process you cannot learn roulette in ff7 without facing the correct enemy which is a random encounter then you have to wait for it to be used which in older games random enemies have a list of abilities they randomly pick from and then you have to be hit by it so gotta make sure your character you want to learn ain't dead unless by the ability itself and then win the battle. All of that is part of learning the spell so yes they are learning mechanics just like you having to wait for Shiva ex to use Glass dance before killing her it is part of your learning process you don't abide by those rules set down you will never learn that ability/spell

I have a feeling maybe they'll buff the drops when BLU gets bumped to 60?

I hope at least.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

I have a feeling maybe they'll buff the drops when BLU gets bumped to 60?

I hope at least.

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can hope too i also hope Blus can solo all ARR content by then as well