Question about Sun-Seeker Mi'qote...

I understand that the Seeker clan has pretty rigid rules regarding which males are allowed to mate and sire offspring. Those with the title of Nunh are allowed, while those with the title of Tia are not.

But... I'm sure these rules must get broken on occasion. It happens with every rule in any society, after all. There must be situations where a female is smitten with a Tia male, and ends up making sweet kitty-cat love with him. For example, maybe a Nunh was recently deposed, and his favorite female later gives him a pity lay for old times' sake.

What happens in these situations? If she gets pregnant from it, what happens to the child? What place does such a child hold in mi'qote society?

I'm guessing the kid would get a special title/surname that says, basically, "Outcast! Stay away from this guy; he's bad news."

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this topic?

I believe in that case they have the option of forming their own tribe, with a two-letter prefix (as the 26 single letters are taken), though I cannot for the life of me remember where I'm getting that two-letter rule from. The newly spun-off tribe would have to either bring in more females (but not males), or simply dissolve itself after a generation.

But all that's assuming the couple chooses to be honest about the paternity. Supposedly, Miqo'te females are only interested in getting it from the strongest man in the clan, but there's enough inbreeding going on that I think it's entirely possible for a child from an atypical union to pass for a child of the current nunh.

On a somewhat darker note, it's also entirely possible that the female could simply abort without the male's knowledge. Tansy was the herb of choice in the (real-world) Middle Ages, so it's not unlikely that a similar herb is used the same way in an early-industrial setting like Eorzea. Condoms were also a thing as far back as (real-world) 1640! The more you know.

That said, I also doubt a tribe would simply abort any developing fetuses sired by a deposed nunh, so that loophole probably exists as well. One could claim a child to have been sired just a few days earlier than the actual truth, and nobody can really prove otherwise, but there will always be rumors. (Feel free to use this as an RP backstory if you like.)

That makes sense! "Yeah, you two are your own tribe now. Good luck!" It's harsh enough to be a deterrent, but not completely inhumane. The offending couple would have a harder life, but they'd also have their freedom.

Truthfully, this might be an over thought since we have two examples of similar situations. The first is T'kebbe, the miquitten in Idyllshire. Its indicated that her parents are the ones who died in that FATE outside of Idyllshire. Based on the little bit we are given it's her mother and father, but nothing indicates he was a Nunh at one point. Similar to what has been said, that if a Tia and his mate wish to be together they would start a new tribe. However, in these instances it's more akin to a child growing up and starting their own family. They are living in more "modern times" so being a "branch" of the main tribe isn't unusual. Something similar happened in last years Moonfire Faire event, with the Tia and his younger sister. Though in that case it's hinted their father might of been a Nunh

Remember, as "animalistic" as miqo'te are is as "human"as they are too.

Though in all seriousness, the "story first" approach means that writers can and will do whatever they want without needing to keep the lore strictly in mind, and it always seems to go weird places where Sunseekers are concerned.

My favorite example is still G'raha Tia, who was somehow shunned for inheriting a once-in-a-generation trait that, if you consider how it would have to have been passed on according to the lore, should not have been considered unusual in the slightest after 2000 years of generational succession, and could have even made him a strong candidate for nunh (not to mention, matching his father, who we can assume is/was nunh). They could always write something in later (potentially even in 4.56 or 5.0!) about it being passed on by a line of tias outside the usual family structure, hence making him an outcast, but for now he's just an overwritten oddity in the existing lore.


Had the token Allagan been literally any other race, even a Moonkeeper, it would all work just fine.

Let's go with something simple...

A Tia and a female genuinely falling in love would most likely lead to them leaving the tribe. They may try to start their own tribe (easier said than done) or simply emigrate to a city-state and live otherwise normal lives as citizens therein. In the insular tribes we've seen in-game, though, I doubt it's a frequent issue - their societies frown on mating with a non-Nunh (and you'd be surprised what that kind of pressure will make people do) and there are few (if any) Tias hanging around their settlements.

As for G'raha and his magic eye thing... well, I figured maybe it was a recessive trait and only showed up under special circumstances. Given it's related to Allag it's also very plausible they programmed it to show up in the first child sired by / born of those who carry the gene, so there will always be someone capable of messing with the Crystal Tower until it's dealt with. G'raha simply wasn't strong enough to become Nunh... or didn't care, I guess.

I'll leave the whole Hyur / Mi'qote thing be. Best not to think too hard about it...

If you haven't done so already, this would be a good question to add to the Banri Oda questions thread.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...iter-Banri-Oda

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Originally Posted by Cilia

G'raha simply wasn't strong enough to become Nunh... or didn't care, I guess.

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I was referring to his default talk string after Syrcus Tower, where he mentions having had an awful childhood because of it, which led to him studying in Sharlayan. Encyclopaedia Eorzea Vol. 1 corroborates that detail in his profile (page 201), and the Allagan history section helpfully digs the ditch deeper by saying the Allagan Eye "can still be seen today in many of those with ancetral ties to [the G clan]" (page 28, emphasis mine).

There are probably really convoluted ways it can be made to work with the exhaustive information we already have on Miqo'te mating habits and family structure, but it's always stuck out to me. It's certainly not something a Postmoogle delivery to Saint Coinach's Find couldn't clear up (and whatever happened to getting more of those, anyway?). And since I don't want to derail another topic with G'raha talk that I just meant as an anecdote, I'll leave it at that.

Other side note, FGO has finally beckoned me back with a SUBARASHI! new event skin, which you'll be able to get in I guess 2021. Still.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I was referring to his default talk string after Syrcus Tower, where he mentions having had an awful childhood because of it, which led to him studying in Sharlayan. Encyclopaedia Eorzea Vol. 1 corroborates that detail in his profile (page 201), and the Allagan history section helpfully digs the ditch deeper by saying the Allagan Eye "can still be seen today in many of those with ancetral ties to [the G clan]" (page 28, emphasis mine).

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Well, "many" and "ancestral" are pretty nebulous if you want to look at the whole world. If we assume it originated from a group of Hyur that were the last remnants of Allagan royalty... well, who knows how far it spread and why it seems to only show up in him? Genetics is complicated.

Just made it to Shinjuku, but not so glad every fight is going to be Lv80+ from here on out. At least the GUDAGUDA Honnoji rerun will give me the rest of the materials to raise him up to max... and that is a nice costume, even if he looks awkward without his cane. At least FEH resets the level to baseline with each successive arc...

Just gotta remember I don't need Okita, I have Musashi... don't need Okita, trying for Ozymandias is more important... damn chains... better not spook me, Arthur!

Ah, should probably stop drifting. Anyway, uhh, it's not been clarified in-universe but the most likely outcome of the given possibility is the couple being ousted from their tribe, and either trying to start their own or going to live in a city-state. Though I still doubt it's a very common occurrence.

You see Miqo'te hitting up the city-states for some lovin' all the time simply because they gotta wait their turn and it'll be a while. But they want it now.
So yeah, it happens.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I believe in that case they have the option of forming their own tribe, with a two-letter prefix (as the 26 single letters are taken), though I cannot for the life of me remember where I'm getting that two-letter rule from. The newly spun-off tribe would have to either bring in more females (but not males), or simply dissolve itself after a generation.

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Someone linked that a while ago, and I saved it. :D It's right back from the 1.0 forum.

Male Sunseeker Miqo Surnames with two inputs from Fernehalwes:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

When the Seekers of the Sun came to Eorzea from their homelands, there were only 26 tribes. Since that time, there have been some males who, instead of defeating their tribe's nunh and becoming a breeding male by normal means, opt to leave the tribe and form their own. However, it is rare for female Seekers of the Sun to follow these males, so these newly formed tribes almost always die out.

This does not mean that it doesn't happen.
If a male leaves to form his own tribe, he will replace the letter from his original tribe (for example, the "Y" in Y'shtola) with a new one. Since the 26 letters of the Eorzean alphabet are already taken, the new tribal prefix will be often be two letters (Ma -> Ma'shtola) which are of the tribe-forming male's choosing (and all people in his tribe will use that same prefix).

His last name will be Nunh, as he is now the new breeding male (as designated by himself) of his new tribe.

While not impossible (people can do what they want with their names), a Seeker of the Sun choosing his mother's name to be his last, would amount to shunning his culture and adopting the rules of the Keepers of the Moon. There will be some Seekers of the Sun who will respect this, but others who frown upon it.

Hope that helps!!

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

I spoke once again with the other Lore masters, and it appears that I left out one important bit of information.

There are tia within the 26 existing tribes who, instead of defeating an existing nunh, prove their worth to the tribe by extending its hunting grounds. These tia will venture out into the world and claim territory of their own (by either finding somewhere unoccupied, or taking an area by force from another tribe). If they can maintain it for an extended period of time, then they become the nunh of that area, while still remaining a member of their original tribe.

This actually happens quite often. And is far more accepted than merely leaving the tribe to make one's own (which, ultimately makes that person an outcast). This is why you will almost never see Seekers of the Sun with tribal letters beyond the original 26 (like the Ma'shtola I mentioned earlier). There are simply not that many, and those that do exist, rarely admit it, for fear of ostracism.

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This answers some things I'd been wondering myself about Seekers who might choose to reject their tribe and disconnect themselves from it - whether they'd also drop the tribe letter entirely and/or not want to label themselves with tribe-rank surnames.


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Originally Posted by BiffWellington

That makes sense! "Yeah, you two are your own tribe now. Good luck!" It's harsh enough to be a deterrent, but not completely inhumane. The offending couple would have a harder life, but they'd also have their freedom.

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I think it's possible that T'kebbe's parents - whether they're the unfortunate pair from the Sun Bear FATE or not - did elope from their tribe. Idyllshire seems like a probable place for a pair of runaways to settle down, away from whatever social reactions they might get elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

G'raha simply wasn't strong enough to become Nunh... or didn't care, I guess.

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I feel like that has to be the case with any number of characters who we meet outside of Sunseeker tribe structure. They went off as young adults on a journey of discovery, and found something more interesting to them than going back to their tribe, challenging the nunh, and presumably having to stay there if they win.

The red mage X'rhun Tia is another example - strong enough to take on a whole gang of bandits at once, but clearly more invested in the Crimson Duelists than in returning to his tribe.

Was it really that long ago? (Looks left at "Join Date: Sep 2011") Ah, I guess it was. Thanks for tracking that down.

I was sure it came form the eye-man himself, but didn't feel like digging back through 6 years of admin posts. :p

G'raha Tia has the Allagan Royal Eye specifically because Princess Salina (who was probably a Hyur) "gave" the Allagan Royal Eye to Desch, a miqo'te who was her trusted advisor and a soldier in the Allagan army. Only by "gave" we're talking about using Allagan gene splicing to give it to him. Desch never originally had the Allagan Royal Eye.

From what we see in the Crystal Tower, the Allagan Royal Eye has become watered down over the millennia (kinda like the Ixal's genes) so the effects it's supposed to have on the people who have the eye aren't strong enough for the Crystal Tower to respond to them. Unei and Doga have to do more gene splicing so that the Allagan Royal Eye is fully manifest in G'raha Tia.