Thundaga vs Ifrit broken?

Is anyone else having this spell just suck ass vs him? Why is my Thundra doing more dmg? Thundaga does over 1k+ dmg to any boss in the game except on him. Thundaga on his Inferno nails also does the correct amount dmg, but why does this spell end up doing shit dmg even when it crt's vs Ifrit. Is anyone else having this problem?

Stack more magic accuracy. Not that I know what yours is at.

thundaga has high magic crit but low magic acc. and why would u really bother casting that on him anyways unless it was for kill shot i nearly get clawed to death just casting thunder>thundara alone lol forbid i cast something more dmging.

The thing about Thundaga is that it says the combo bonus is increased damage bonus when it crits, but the thing about Thundaga is that the combo doesn't guarantee that the spell will crit, meaning that unless you can get Excruciate to proc on it or you get a lucky crit, it will only do as much as Thundara or less. Thundara, on the other hand, makes the spell a guaranteed critical if its used in the combo (and if Thunder doesn't get resisted) making it a generally good spell.

The consensus is just to be more MP conservative and stick with Thunder and Thundara, since you'll be spending about the same MP using Thunder/Thundara or Thundaga. Thunder also adds an extra 150-170 dmg so that'll add up overtime as well to your DPS.

The problem is even when it crt it does less dmg than a non crt thundra This spell does not have this problem on any other mob or boss. I know how to play THM don't need you guys to explain that to me what i'm asking is why does this spell do less dmg vs Ifrit but will hit over 1k dmg on other bosses w/o crting? I was testing the other day vs him Thunder does like 290 > Thundra does 500-609 dmg for me Thundaga does 400-450 dmg? Thats with the Crt.

do you have crit bonus items?
maybe your stat add too high on int which boost to the chain bonus's damage, but not much on magic crit bonus...

I think crit is always full landed tho, so shouldn't be the magic acc problem.

Just wanted to say I have the same problem. I'm pretty sure it's not related to my stats. My INT is around 290 and my m.acc, though only 455, is sufficient to land most of the time.

Good timing with Excrutiate (the skill that gives crit bonus based on time on you) can usually net you a good Thundaga hit on him...but it's not always the best idea to be going for it either way.

I don't wanna sound like a dick but can some of you not read it has nothing to do with gear "Works fine vs every other mob/boss in game, why not here"? Again i don't need anyone tell me how to time the crt hit skill the spell simply sucks vs him. All ask again why does the spell do less dmg than thundra even when it crt's that's the question....

Gotta be how magic resist works, a Critical hit Thundaga would do less damage than Thundara on Ifrit, not to mention a Critical hit Thundara.

Even with out crts Thundaga on every other mob in the game it does more dmg Here is an example of what i got.

On Ifrit. Thunder 290 dmg > Thundara 560 > CRT hit Thundaga 460 dmg. If it was indeed ifrit's resist Why is'nt the other 2 spells under performing. Thundaga even w/o crt on all other mobs does wayyy more dmg than a Thundara that does not stun.

Edit: and yes i have like 85 crt hit bonus from materia and 480 magic acc w/o food and 290 int and 260 mnd.

I get more or less the same numbers with mine aswell.

Kind of silly that my thundara crit does more dmg than my thundaga crit, given the high recaster and MP cost on thundaga.

Not to mention that, ITS THUNDAGA lol.

Yup same here.

The problem with Thundaga is that the base damage is lower than Thundara. Magic Resist might be focus more on base damage, and since Thundara has more penetrating power than Thundaga due to higher base it results in much better damage, that's my theory. For instance if you fight Whiskerwall PLD Moogle as an Archer, you will notice that each of Barrage hit does almost three times the damage of a normal shot, yielding total 15 times damage of a normal shot. On any other Moogle that has much less def you find a Barrage hit is not much higher than a normal shot.

I think it is logically impossible to have an attack both critical and partial resisted.
It just doesn't make any sense.

I think the focus should be on the damage formulas of both spell.
Like if Thunderga have a dINT sneaked into it.
Since Ifrit deals a lot of magical damage.
It would make sense if Ifrit has a higher INT. possible way higher than any player can reach.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

The problem with Thundaga is that the base damage is lower than Thundara. Magic Resist might be focus more on base damage, and since Thundara has more penetrating power than Thundaga due to higher base it results in much better damage, that's my theory. For instance if you fight Whiskerwall PLD Moogle as an Archer, you will notice that each of Barrage hit does almost three times the damage of a normal shot, yielding total 15 times damage of a normal shot. On any other Moogle that has much less def you find a Barrage hit is not much higher than a normal shot.

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The text in bold is wrong Thunaga base dmg is much higher than thundara go cast Thundara raw then Thundaga see the difference in dmg.

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Originally Posted by Firon

The text in bold is wrong Thunaga base dmg is much higher than thundara go cast Thundara raw then Thundaga see the difference in dmg.

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Because we don't know the damage formula, it's just my hunch that the base damage before multiplication with INT and Magic ATK and whatnot of Thundaga is actually lower than Thundara (for example, Thundaga would be (100-resist)*5 while Thundara would be (200-resist)*1.5, something like that). Gloom Arrow also usually does higher than Barrage per hit, but does less than Barrage per hit on PLD Moogle. Either that or the damage bonus from Thundara combo is a fixed number and it just happen to bypass Ifrit Magic resist.

U cast thundara so fast in ifrit that u get him off guard, now with thundaga he is prepare for the hit to resist it more

Sounds to me like a partial resist, that will make thundaga do less than thundara, I would try experimenting with some thunder macc+ or macc+ see if it helps.

It would be logical that thundaga has a higher resist rate than thundara, but as people have said, we dont know the damage formulae it could always be something with ifrit's stats thats messing it up.

There isnt alot we can say without the damage formulae execpt experiment with different builds for ifrit, could be something unique to him thats causing it. It would be logical however, that he has high int because all his attacks are magical, unlike all other none mage mobs, this would cause alot of resists, and if thundaga has a higher resist rate it could be the problem.

It's not a partial resist. You can try this on a R60 Sundrake or any high level mob. The lower damage you do in general on all the Thunder line, the MORE thundara combo outperforms the other 2 spells. In extreme situations such as Ifrit, it begins to outperform it's higher tier Thundaga (w/o the critical hit bonus proc).

I also think it's a problem with the formula. Like Thundara has a base damage part and a bonus damage part where only the base damage part is reduced by mob resistance/level/whatever while Thundaga only has a higher base damage part and critical multiplier.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I don't wanna sound like a dick but can some of you not read it has nothing to do with gear "Works fine vs every other mob/boss in game, why not here"? Again i don't need anyone tell me how to time the crt hit skill the spell simply sucks vs him. All ask again why does the spell do less dmg than thundra even when it crt's that's the question....

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Don't want to sound like a dick, but ifrit has far more magic resist than anything else in the gam of similar level, that's why thundaga seems worse. It's probably far more affected by it than other spells due to it's formula, just that.

Stack mag acc and you should see better results, ask Signore Chard if you see him around these forums; he usually outparses everyone on Ifrit, his build is mag acc heavy.

OP is right, it has nothing to do with Magic Accuracy or any other stats.

Formulas seem different for both spells (edit: or it's just the combo bonus effect) , and Ifrit being high level, it unbalances thundara/thundaga damage.

(and yes, you need close to 500 magic accuracy or magic resist down biatch to constantly do 35+ DPS on Ifrit)
(and yes, Thundaga is a big waste of time on Ifrit with the current damage formula)

to do optimal dps you have to minimize resists and maximize damage per mp spent, as well as dps uptime.

thundaga's damage is sucking because it's getting resisted. it's getting resisted because it has super low accuracy. unresisted thundaga does hit ifrit harder than thundara. it is possible to hit ifrit with unresisted thundagas.

pending int/potency values, unresisted non-crit thundara can do 600+ quite easily. pending the same criteria, unresisted non-crit thundaga can do 850+ quite easily.

however, you'll want at least around 515-525 magic accuracy if you want to start landing thundaga on ifrit, and even then it's probably not a really good idea unless excruciate is up. and as expensive as that's going to be, you're generally better served just hitting the approximate magic accuracy cap for thundara and then stacking potency/int after that. (and never casting thundaga, obviously, since thundara gives you a superior return on damage for mp spent)

anyway, if you're doing everything right, you should be able to hit 30 dps on an 8ish minute kill. if everyone's doing everything right, you should be able to win in under 5 minutes easily, and people should be hitting 35-38 dps. if you're a complete boss and your materia is perfect, you should be able to hit 40.

Hmmm. I've stacked my THM with elemental gear. Fire for encounters that need it, and Lightning for those that need that. Same with my CON. It seems to work out pretty well for me. However, IMO, you shouldn't really be spamming tier 3 combos because it usually pulls hate off the tank if done continuously. If looked at in that way, landing Thundaga is simply bonus dps.

What Kaeko said, if you use thundara in a combo with high enough lvl mobs then the combo bonus starts to overtake the dmg numbers of thundaga. tldr: don't use thundaga against ifrit

side note: good tanks should be able to hold hate on ifrit without forcing ppl to hold back. there is no reason you can't go 100% (barring the initial 10 seconds where the tank can get in position) on ifrit. From a glad perspective its a sh-- ton of work to keep hate on a very well geared THM but just barely possible but if you tank with MRD its fairly easy if you keep everything on cooldown and move in position to get the side attack combo started, and always helps to abuse some group-overcures for extra hate.