Can we try... In 5.0..

Can we try not having a weekly tomestone cap in 5.0? At least for one patch cycle? Please? Pretty Please?

They'd just replace it with a system that does something similar to tomestones cap. I'd put money on it, any day, any time.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Can we try not having a weekly tomestone cap in 5.0? At least for one patch cycle? Please? Pretty Please?

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We will. The first set of tomes will be uncapped, just like the first set of 2.0 and 3.0 tomes :D

If this were the case, many people would be very nearly decked out in the complete base tome gear (barring the weapons) for at least their main jobs within the first day or two. For better or worse, SE probably won't do this, because otherwise it would give those players less incentive to keep logging in.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

We will. The first set of tomes will be uncapped, just like the first set of 2.0 and 3.0 tomes :D

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I mean any of the tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I mean any of the tomestones.

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Ok... and replace it with what, dare I ask?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I mean any of the tomestones.

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I guess we can uncap tomestones, but in exchange, tomestones will be obtained through harsh rng to limit people from progressing too quickly.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

If this were the case, many people would be very nearly decked out in the complete base tome gear (barring the weapons) for at least their main jobs within the first day or two. .

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And? Let the no lifers have no life. They're the minority of the playerbase. And when they've done so and complain about nothing to do, we will not feel sorry for them.

Adding support for no tome cap. Stop trying to limit me SE. Let me play the way I want to play.

Another system that might work is have different tomes based on role so you can gear multiple roles. A tank cap, a dps cap, and a heal cap. If you cap your main job tomes, you'd have to play Tank or Heals to get more tomes. That is only a good thing.

Square will never change the formula because to them its wildly successful. I mean everyone here is still playing and loves it right? If not they'd have unsubscribed long ago. Or at least that is probably how they see it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And? Let the no lifers have no life. They're the minority of the playerbase. And when they've done so and complain about nothing to do, we will not feel sorry for them.

Adding support for no tome cap. Stop trying to limit me SE. Let me play the way I want to play.

Another system that might work is have different tomes based on role so you can gear multiple roles. A tank cap, a dps cap, and a heal cap. If you cap your main job tomes, you'd have to play Tank or Heals to get more tomes. That is only a good thing.

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No lifers used to be able to constantly work toward their progression. Any time that system was used in xiv tho it has been met with pushback.

No one wants rng. But that's how things would be without a weekly lockout.

It's a bad idea, since certain portions of the community cannot be trusted to avoid forcing/threatening other players to push to grab every upgrade as quickly as possible.

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Originally Posted by Razard

Ok... and replace it with what, dare I ask?

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Replace it with nothing. Just let people gear as fast as they want. Even if you max your tome gear in one day you can't upgrade it all in one day. Not to mention the people that upgrade their gear casually with the 24 man raid can only upgrade one piece a week. To be clear I'm not a fan of loot lockouts either but one small cap unlock at a time :)

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a bad idea, since certain portions of the community cannot be trusted to avoid forcing/threatening other players to push to grab every upgrade as quickly as possible.

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I don't think this would happen for casual content like dungeons. Maybe EX primals and Savage Raids but, that's a toxic community already anyway.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And? Let the no lifers have no life. They're the minority of the playerbase. And when they've done so and complain about nothing to do, we will not feel sorry for them.

Adding support for no tome cap. Stop trying to limit me SE. Let me play the way I want to play.

Another system that might work is have different tomes based on role so you can gear multiple roles. A tank cap, a dps cap, and a heal cap. If you cap your main job tomes, you'd have to play Tank or Heals to get more tomes. That is only a good thing.

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This, this a 1000 times over. unlimit it, raise the cap, or at least make it per role/job... pls...

My bigger beef is with raid tokens for gear. I would rather have this: Complete X raid 10 times for 1 gear token, once per week limit. This at least guarantees someone won't be trying that one raid more than 10 times just to win the RNG token.

I should say that this is coming from the fact that I recently switched from SAM to PLD. My SAM is in for Sceaven Gear including the weapon, and gearing up my tank is taking forever. Needing two weeks for a body and leg piece and then one week for every other piece it's taking a very long time.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Replace it with nothing. Just let people gear as fast as they want. Even if you max your tome gear in one day you can't upgrade it all in one day. Not to mention the people that upgrade their gear casually with the 24 man raid can only upgrade one piece a week. To be clear I'm not a fan of loot lockouts either but one small cap unlock at a time :)

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So do the thing that is currently killing WoW?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I should say that this is coming from the fact that I recently switched from SAM to PLD. My SAM is in for Sceaven Gear including the weapon, and gearing up my tank is taking forever. Needing two weeks for a body and leg piece and then one week for every other piece it's taking a very long time.

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Use mendacity gear and upgrade it, get crafted gear and upgrade it, alphas ape gear, eureka armor.

There are many ways to gear now, and since you said extremes and raids are full of toxicity, you probably aren't doing that content, so you don't need the gear quickly since you are just doing the easier content.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Use mendacity gear and upgrade it, get crafted gear and upgrade it, alphas ape gear, eureka armor.

There are many ways to gear now, and since you said extremes and raids are full of toxicity, you probably aren't doing that content, so you don't need the gear quickly since you are just doing the easier content.

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My Pld was in full Omega normal gear before I started. Except for one ring. I refuse to buy crafted gear and I'd just as soon delete my account before I go back into Eureka. I do do EX Primals but not Savage Raids. And yes I can do the Primals just fine... it's just bugging me to not be in full sceaven gear lol.

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Originally Posted by Razard

So do the thing that is currently killing WoW?

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I don't know what's killing WoW and what's not. I don't keep up with the game. I'm going to guess tho it's more than just being able to gear out your jobs more quickly tho.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

My Pld was in full Omega normal gear before I started. Except for one ring. I refuse to buy crafted gear and I'd just as soon delete my account before I go back into Eureka. I do do EX Primals but not Savage Raids. And yes I can do the Primals just fine... it's just bugging me to not be in full sceaven gear lol.

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you refusing to use the options the game gives you for gear is not a reason to remove the tome caps

It's literally a system designed to halt your progression every week so you keep subbing and logging back in.

They'll never change it, in fact they'll most likely add MORE weekly limits in 5.0 just like how 4.0 had the Doman Reconstruction

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Originally Posted by NatePride

you refusing to use the options the game gives you for gear is not a reason to remove the tome caps

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Sorry that I don't make gil as fast as other people to justify affording Crafting prices or that I hate Eureka so much I only have 24 logoactions recorded so Eurekan gear isn't even an option.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

It's literally a system designed to halt your progression every week so you keep subbing and logging back in.

They'll never change it, in fact they'll most likely add MORE weekly limits in 5.0 just like how 4.0 had the Doman Reconstruction

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I know. But one can always hope :)

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

My Pld was in full Omega normal gear before I started. Except for one ring. I refuse to buy crafted gear and I'd just as soon delete my account before I go back into Eureka. I do do EX Primals but not Savage Raids. And yes I can do the Primals just fine... it's just bugging me to not be in full sceaven gear lol.

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So... you know that there are alternative ways to gear up, you refuse to use them and you dont participate in content that would actually require you to have a high ilvl? You just want the gear to... have it, basically?

There will always be some form of slowing our gear progression down - for good reasons: People stay subbed longer (SE IS a buisness and they want to make money of this game, they're not your friend), people dont get burnt out as fast, it ensures that content still gets run weeks after its release and it keeps ilvl-requests in PF at a more reasonable level for a longer period of time (if you could just farm 390 at day one of the patch, what do you think people would put thier EX-primal runs at, mmh?).

Personally I prefer tomestones over RNG. And I actually sort of like the cap, because it allows me to gear up at a reasonable pace without feeling like I need to do more to keep up or to be able to join Ex-primal/Savage groups to begin with. It also gives a sense of (a very low form of) "accomplishment" for the week - weekly cap done? I can put a check-mark behind that on my to-do-list!

There are many ways to gear up a second or third job at the same time as your main - and after a few weeks you can get the set for the second, third, fourth job anyways. If you refuse to make use of those however...

May I also inform you that there is always a strong possibility that crafted and overmelded jewlery is actually BiS for a paladin? Its also worth noting that if you really care about your gear and stats you wont just blindly rush for tomestone-gear but check what substats all the gear that is in your reach offers to pick those with preferable substats (this might be my inner bard speaking - I wouldnt touch certain tomestone-pieces with a 10 feet pole...)

Bottomline: I see more reasons to keep the tomestone-cap than do away with it. This request comes up again and again and they have yet to take it into consideration - my personal guess would bethough that they did and just put it on the "Nope, not gonna do that"-pile.

If this were to happen, crafters wouldn't have a reason to craft gear anymore. Gathers wouldn't have a reason to gather the legendary nodes anymore. Well, that is unless crafted gear instead of being 10 ilvl lower than max tomestone gear suddenly were 10 ilvl higher.

This idea just gets rid of the reason we omni-crafters spend so much gil over-melding our crafting gear.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Sorry that I don't make gil as fast as other people to justify affording Crafting prices or that I hate Eureka so much I only have 24 logoactions recorded so Eurekan gear isn't even an option.

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Few ideas:
- level up your crafters and make the gear yourself
- get your crafters up to a point that allows you to do weekly turn-ins at least and sell whatever yellow-script-stuff sells well. Or craft low level furniture. Can make you a fortune.
- make friends with crafters or join an FC with crafters who can make the pieces for you (be nice to them, offer mats and any help you can!)
- get the mats for the piece you want - they're often cheaper than the finished product - and comission someone

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Sorry that I don't make gil as fast as other people to justify affording Crafting prices or that I hate Eureka so much I only have 24 logoactions recorded so Eurekan gear isn't even an option.

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Just do roulettes as pld. Few weeks and you have a couple million.

I've been stagnant on gil since shortly after stormblood released and I got all my tanks to 70, as I don't play them much anymore.

You can get close to 100k a day just off roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

My Pld was in full Omega normal gear before I started. Except for one ring. I refuse to buy crafted gear and I'd just as soon delete my account before I go back into Eureka. I do do EX Primals but not Savage Raids. And yes I can do the Primals just fine... it's just bugging me to not be in full sceaven gear lol.

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So you want SE to remove the limit on one way to gear up because you can't be bothered to do the other options to gear up?

I wouldn't ask for it to be uncapped. However I would like that weekly cap to be 900 instead of 450. Thoughts on this are that the 450 cap was something made back in ARR and the number of jobs has increased considerably since then. While many do share sets there are some instances where every job had its own set of tome gear.

Several reasons SE won't do uncap tomes: longevity, inventiveness to gear up with another way, reduce burn out, fairness, equality for both people with time and less time, etc.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Sorry that I don't make gil as fast as other people to justify affording Crafting prices or that I hate Eureka so much I only have 24 logoactions recorded so Eurekan gear isn't even an option.

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Take up crafting then. It'll give you something to do while waiting for reset.

Let me guess. You don't like that either?

Can we also try, generally speaking, to put relevant titles on threads?

The title is where you should put the core point of your post, so people know what the discussion is about. Not a meaningless first-half of a sentence. .

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I wouldn't ask for it to be uncapped. However I would like that weekly cap to be 900 instead of 450.

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I think it will be 900 by part 2 of 4.5. I remember it was 900 at the end of HW. 450 is because they don't want you to get any gear aside from accessories and waist in one week.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And? Let the no lifers have no life. They're the minority of the playerbase. And when they've done so and complain about nothing to do, we will not feel sorry for them.

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It's not just about this. It's about wanting to control how players eat content so that the progression rate of gearing up and killing savage bosses doesn't become imbalanced. No weekly tomestone cap means the gap between those who have more free time than others would become huge when content launches. Not everyone can or wants to no-life the game enough to do a tier's worth of tomestone grinding in a day or two.

Not only would the lack of a weekly cap mean that content would become irrelevant more quickly for some players, those who take a more normal pace of gearing will have less people to do content with, some statics just wouldn't be interested in recruiting anyone who doesn't have the time to grind a tier's worth of tomestones ASAP, and savage content itself would be much easier from the beginning due to being able to get all the current tomestone gear before entering.

There are multiple reasons why removing the weekly cap is bad. Maybe for you personally it would be good but you have to look at the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Adding support for no tome cap. Stop trying to limit me SE. Let me play the way I want to play.

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The weekly cap on tomes doesn't stop you from doing any content. There are multiple avenues for gear. The weekly cap doesn't stop anyone from getting to latest content as soon as they want.

Weekly tome caps are a necessary evil. Also as of right now there is many ways to gear a character. Its is not SE's fault if you refuse to even try all avenues.

Near 0 without a drastic overhaul. They would have to increase savage drop rate (and probably difficulty as well, as being able to gear in current stat full tome first week would drastically reduce the difficulty), normal raid gear (pretty much dead on the day it is released except weapon token) and the 24 man raid catch up stuff at current rates would be DOA except glam or go into heavy rng territory. I mean I guess they could buff the 24 man raid gear by 5 ilvls, but then it gets pretty close to upgraded tome gear and savage gear. /shrug.

The only thing they might see as reasonable is having a per role cap instead of just one cap, but they do sell a plan with more character slots so...probably not that either. They would have to change the way you purchase things so you don't pool them, too.

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Originally Posted by ksuyen

Several reasons SE won't do uncap tomes: longevity, inventiveness to gear up with another way, reduce burn out, fairness, equality for both people with time and less time, etc.

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People with limited play time is a reason to remove the cap. People that can't cap in a given week for whatever reason are permanently behind. Personally, I wish they'd do something like the hallmark system in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by shiroxkatsuya

Weekly tome caps are a necessary evil. Also as of right now there is many ways to gear a character. Its is not SE's fault if you refuse to even try all avenues.

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Right now, yes, there are multiple ways to gear. In 5.0, there will not be. Part of the problem is how they stagger the release of content. If we had multiple gearing options up front, it wouldn't be so bad.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

People with limited play time is a reason to remove the cap. People that can't cap in a given week for whatever reason are permanently behind.

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Releasing the cap would just mean they get even more behind. Their progress isn't affected by the cap in the first place - it's other players that are held back by it.

Say they can only get around 200 tomes per week. Other players get 450. They are getting about 50% of the maximum possible progress.

Uncap tomes, and they can still only get 200 tomes a week (restricted by their personal access), while other players could be getting 2000. They are only able to make 10% of that other player's progress.


Whether this is a problem or not is a separate argument. But it's incorrect to say that uncapping tomes will help them.