Nautical Nonsense - Job Idea: Viking!

This is part of a series of Nautical themed Job ideas I have been thinking about for each role.

Today's one is Viking (VIK)

Role: Melee DPS

Weapon of Choice: Greathammer

Job Gauge: Consists of a Dual Gauge system. One named Thunder and the other named Lightning.

The Lightning Gauge is built up using melee attacks and allows the use of Lightning magicks to deal devastating bursts of damage.

While the Thunder Gauge is built up using Lightning magicks and enhances your melee attacks with additional Lightning damage, at the cost of increasing their MP cost.

MP will be able to be regained by using a skill called Downburst which will expend the entirety of the Thunder Gauge to deal damage and replenish MP.

Gameplay: The general idea is to have a slower style but hard hitting mDPS class that has a natural ebb and flow to its power, with emphasis on MP management to create burst opportunities as well as maintaining sustained output.

We already have this as a Melee DPS in the form of Warrior.

i feel if any role is getting hammer it would be tank

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

We already have this as a Melee DPS in the form of Warrior.

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Last I checked, Warrior had neither Lightning magicks (Or any other form of offensive magicks) nor a job gauge that empowered their melee abilities as a whole increasing their cost.

Though, I only checked a few minutes ago because I main Warrior... So maybe it has changed since then? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i feel if any role is getting hammer it would be tank

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Well, Tank already has Greatsword (DRK) and Greataxe (WAR)

Having at least 1 DPS class using a big ol' weapon to smack people around with would be cool. Especially given that currently, all mDPS use light weapons and have some form of attack speed buff.

Any Tank receiving Greathammer would likely end up feeling too similar to WAR.

I think a 5th Melee DPS would be a real pain to balance. While I can appreciate some differences between Warrior and Viking, also, Warrior just has a lot of viking influences in it already, down to certain skill names (Holmgang comes to mind) as well as their association with Sea Wolf roes, who may as well be Hydaelyn's version of real world vikings. The thematic overlap is just too much.

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Originally Posted by briarth0rn

I think a 5th Melee DPS would be a real pain to balance. While I can appreciate some differences between Warrior and Viking, also, Warrior just has a lot of viking influences in it already, down to certain skill names (Holmgang comes to mind) as well as their association with Sea Wolf roes, who may as well be Hydaelyn's version of real world vikings. The thematic overlap is just too much.

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Unless they stop making new classes after ShB outside of Physical Ranged and maybe another Magical Ranged, a 5th mDPS will eventually come.

As far as influences go, much of the Warrior influences are actually of Pirate. Not only sharing skill names with Pirates from previous games, but also using the same weapons (Axes) and being heavily featured in Limsa Lominsa, a city state created by people who were previously Pirates (Some actually still are, they just work within the law now).

That isn't to say that there's a plethora of ways to differentiate the 2. Such as, one being a Tank and the other being a DPS. Down to playstyle differences too. Unless we also make the statement that Gunbreaker can't exist because it's too similar to GLD/PLD because they both use a one handed sword and both use melee combat techniques.

I tried to reflect the differences in that Viking plays more towards the Magick side of things, weaving in magick with their hammer strikes - An homage to Thor and Norse mythology. As opposed to the Pirate-Turned-Militia-Turned-Berserker theme of Warrior.

If anything there's more merit to saying that Viking wouldn't work in the stated way because RED MAGE, not Warrior. Given that RDM currently uses melee and magick too.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...al_Fantasy_III)

The Viking job is traditionally a tank that uses Provoke.
Provoke of course being a WAR native skill before it became a role skill.

WAR is already based on Viking, plus Berserker.

This is just as likely as us ever getting a Time Mage job. Which is to say not at all because Astrologian is our Time Mage.

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that Axes = Pirates, or that Pirates and Vikings are so dissimilar in the first place.
Limsa pirates ARE Vikings, especially the Sea Wolves, they come from the north sea and have Scandinavian names.

AND like you say, this system is just ripped straight from RDM, so...

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

-Snip_

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Viking (Job):

Final Fantasy III

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The Viking is a job is gained from the Water Crystal. Vikings swing giant hammers and axes with ease. Their only drawback is that they develop slower than other melee jobs. Vikings are mainly used as a "tank" for their Provoke ability and access to the strongest armor.

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Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift

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Viking is a job exclusive to the seeq race. It relies on using primarily axes and Lightning-elemental magick, and it is the closest that the seeq have to a magickal job. Viking shines for having the highest magickal defense for a seeq job, and can damage and steal items, gil, and even equipment, which is exclusive to it.

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Final Fantasy All The Bravest

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The Viking is a character available to the party, he uses the Thwack ability during battle. It unlocks at level 47.

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Final Fantasy Record Keeper

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A seafaring warrior who shields his allies from enemy attacks. What the Viking lacks in speed, he makes up for in defense, making him the perfect companion to take the blows for the party.

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While many of the previous iterations are Tanks, I'm basing the design of FFXIV Viking on the Tactics A2 version which focuses more on Lightning Magick.

As far as Axes = Pirates, it comes from:

The Pirate Job in Final Fantasy Bravely Default and Bravely Second.

Which featured "Pirates are proficient with swords, greatswords, and shields, with axes being their specialty."

With skills such as:

* Provoke
* Shell Split which is noted as "Deal the same damage as a conventional attack to one target, and for four turns, lower the target's P.Def by 25%." (Not unlike the Warrior skill Maim)
* Berserk which raises physical attack temporarily
* Skull Bash

Warrior is based on Pirate and Berserker. With Pirate sharing origins with Viking in FFIII.

That isn't to say, that it's not possible to differentiate the classes. Or are we never getting RDM since it'd just be a copy of BLM or WHM?

Time Mage is possible, but unlikely because AST already uses many of its notable spells. So unless a design can be thought up to feel like Time Mage without relying on already used skills, it will not be implemented.

However, with VIK vs WAR, I've already thought of a design that differentiates the 2. DPS vs Tank. Hammer vs Axe. Magick hybrid vs Phys. Of all the incarnations of VIK, the only skill shared by WAR is Provoke. Which is not even necessary when the idea is VIK being a DPS not a Tank.

In the terms of "Limsa Pirates ARE Vikings" they are in terms of geography and naming conventions, less so about the actual Job. What with not every Limsa Pirate using an Axe (Some use Swords, Gladiator style, others use Pistols such as notably, Merlwyb).

There's plenty of freedom to put in lore that would let a Viking Job co-exist with WAR and Limsa Pirates. Given that Vikings weren't focused as much on naval warfare which is what Limsa Pirates are all about, sailing on the seas with their cannon filled ships going from port to port. Vikings merely used sailing as a means to travel between countries (Notably, the UK).

Finally, as far as the quip about the system being "Ripped straight from RDM" that is not true. Merely the base concept of "Melee + Magick" is shared by RDM with a lesser extent of filling a gauge with spells (But if you consider THAT "Ripping" from alternative classes then RDM ripped "Filling a gauge" from WAR/PLD...)

In terms of gameplay, they're drastically different. Where RDM simply fires off spells until they can pull off a single melee combo, this VIK would be doing melee combos until they can pull off Spells, which would improve their melee combos while making them more expensive and keep repeating that until the ideal time comes to regain MP and dump their gauge.

I mean, you can nitpick about the specific differences between pirates and vikings, but "Sea-faring fighter that pillages stuff" still is still indicative of a big thematic overlap. Compare any two other jobs in the game, and they'll be a lot more distinct than a Warrior and a Viking. I certainly like the idea of a physical/magical hybrid and it'd be nice to get melee DPS with a heavier weapon and perhaps shared armor with Dragoon, but it just doesn't really seem like something SE would be likely to do. I really don't dislike your idea at all, I think it's cool and I'd love it if as many people as possible can achieve the class fantasy they want in this game, I just feel it's unlikely based on how we've seen the development team work over the years and what we can infer from them based on that.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Provoke of course being a WAR native skill before it became a role skill.

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In FFXIV Provoke was Gladiator/Paladin cross class skill, before it became a role skill.

My main question is; you are making nautical themed jobs, but where is the water element? Nautical means the sea. So water should be a give. Also wouldn't a Water gauge and a Lightning gauge working together make more sense. The Water could augment physical attacks, coating the enemy in water aspected aether, which would increase the damage dealt by Thunder spells.

If I remember correctly, even with the two job teachers beeing Sea Wolf Roes, the lore states that Warriors origin came from the mountains at Gyr Abania.

I think there is enough space in the lore for hammer wielding warriors from northern islands.

There is also a hint on the worldmap to this.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8715601231.png

I kinda expected Viking to be a new tank/melee job in 5.0, using water/ice/lightning magic to enhance it's attacks.

Don't want to argue on the name because I think that's not really too important vs concept but I do think it might be better to go farther away from Maurader / Warrior. But names and lore details can be shifted around if needed so we can focus on the concept rather.

Concept here being a thunderous war god, reminds me of that awesome Thor scene except with a bigger hammer haha - which sounds pretty cool. Perhaps mixing in some of that lumbering with supercharged moments (like in Diaoblo 3 Crusader which had that thundering movement ability attack from the sky and a temporary war horse. or Thor with the spiral attack and jump smash move).

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o8dFl...VQuk/giphy.gifhttps://thumbs.gfycat.com/Incredible...al-max-1mb.gif

Since it seems the damage would be on a deeper slower cadence (when thunder calls) it would be nice for some mechanic to exist to prevent the job from being punished too hard for not getting a burst off before the boss vanishes / does some move (like overcharging the hammer passively/actively for extra burst when it comes back, not to be a DPS gain over playing more interactively but to be a safety net vs boss mechanics). I suppose it could just be punishing, like messing up a dragoon jump or mistiming a black mage cast.. but oof then lol. Just don't mess up :P?

Bet we could see a few rocket hammer weapons added just for fun then, like Nero's.

Anyway, thunder hammer has been cool, is cool, and will stay cool :D.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Don't want to argue on the name because I think that's not really too important vs concept but I do think it might be better to go farther away from Maurader / Warrior. But names and lore details can be shifted around if needed so we can focus on the concept rather.

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I think it's kind of amusing that I post Viking here and everyone's like "NUuUuuUu that's WARRIOR"

Based on a few small details such as one iteration of Viking having Provoke (OMG Dark Knight = Viking! Paladin = Viking! Gunbreaker will soon = Viking!!) the one iteration being FFIII on the 3DS, one skill having a Norse name (Holmgang) and some Roe having Scandinavian themed names.

Yet, after JP Fan Fest, after merely showing off the character Gaia with a big ol' Hammer (With Norse themed patterns on it no less) all of a sudden tons of people are like "OMG I want Viking as a new Tank/DPS job with a Hammer!!"

Also fun to see the jobs in this game. When you look back and consider that throughout the series there have been several iterations of Warrior had things such as:

* Becoming the Knight job (In FFIII this meant getting an upgraded Defend skill that meant you only took 1 damage. Also the 3DS version gave Knights the Cover skill and access to level 1 White Magic (Cure, Poisona and Sight))

* FFX-2 had Warrior learning the Sentinel skill (Which was a pre-requisite to learn Assault and SOS-Protect)

* FFXI had Warrior getting job traits Shield Def. Bonus (Reduced damage taken when blocking with a Shield) and Shield Mastery (Gain bonus TP when blocking with a shield and preventing spell interruption)

* FF Tactics and Tactics A2 both had Warrior gaining the Shieldbearer support skills (Allowing the use of shields irregardless of job)

With also many iterations of Warrior focusing around using a 1 handed sword and a shield.

So... Essentially, Warrior = Paladin (Well, more accurately Warrior > Knight = Paladin)

Yet no-one has issues with that and the fact that Warrior in XIV is basically Berserker with a few Warrior and Pirate themes sprinkled on.

Anyway, back onto the topic of the concept rather than arguing over people being pedantic about what a job is based around, since XIV has already shown that it doesn't mind creating new precedents for things (Such as SMN functioning as a Scholar and using their books for spells as opposed to the traditional Staff/Rod weapons)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Anyway, thunder hammer has been cool, is cool, and will stay cool :D.

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Yeah, lightning and big hammers are cool.

Also, would be interesting to shake up the mDPS role a bit with a different cadence of play (As opposed to literally everyone and their cat having SkS buffs in their kit... Even the "Melee Mage" Samurai with their Iaijutsu's with cast times has Shinpu for SkS buff...)

As well as seeing the reverse of RDM where instead of being a caster who occasionally jumps in to do exactly 3 melee hits and then jumps back to being a caster, you have an mDPS who smashes people with a big hammer and zaps them with lightning between swings :D

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I think it's kind of amusing that I post Viking here and everyone's like "NUuUuuUu that's WARRIOR"

Based on a few small details such as one iteration of Viking having Provoke (OMG Dark Knight = Viking! Paladin = Viking! Gunbreaker will soon = Viking!!) the one iteration being FFIII on the 3DS, one skill having a Norse name (Holmgang) and some Roe having Scandinavian themed names.

Yet, after JP Fan Fest, after merely showing off the character Gaia with a big ol' Hammer (With Norse themed patterns on it no less) all of a sudden tons of people are like "OMG I want Viking as a new Tank/DPS job with a Hammer!!"

Also fun to see the jobs in this game. When you look back and consider that throughout the series there have been several iterations of Warrior had things such as:

* Becoming the Knight job (In FFIII this meant getting an upgraded Defend skill that meant you only took 1 damage. Also the 3DS version gave Knights the Cover skill and access to level 1 White Magic (Cure, Poisona and Sight))

* FFX-2 had Warrior learning the Sentinel skill (Which was a pre-requisite to learn Assault and SOS-Protect)

* FFXI had Warrior getting job traits Shield Def. Bonus (Reduced damage taken when blocking with a Shield) and Shield Mastery (Gain bonus TP when blocking with a shield and preventing spell interruption)

* FF Tactics and Tactics A2 both had Warrior gaining the Shieldbearer support skills (Allowing the use of shields irregardless of job)

With also many iterations of Warrior focusing around using a 1 handed sword and a shield.

So... Essentially, Warrior = Paladin (Well, more accurately Warrior > Knight = Paladin)

Yet no-one has issues with that and the fact that Warrior in XIV is basically Berserker with a few Warrior and Pirate themes sprinkled on.

Anyway, back onto the topic of the concept rather than arguing over people being pedantic about what a job is based around, since XIV has already shown that it doesn't mind creating new precedents for things (Such as SMN functioning as a Scholar and using their books for spells as opposed to the traditional Staff/Rod weapons)

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NUUUU, all your boats and seas are belong to my marauder ;). I also understand your argument that it's not that similar/is not an issue.

Just because of the whole navy theme of limsa and because Marauder is there was my only concern, its a very vague similarity and could definitely be written over/around (it's not like only one culture learned how to use boats lol) - but that's why I made sure it was a minority of my post/not bother you with like "B-b-but the name, so kill the whole thread" lol :D.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Yeah, lightning and big hammers are cool.

Also, would be interesting to shake up the mDPS role a bit with a different cadence of play (As opposed to literally everyone and their cat having SkS buffs in their kit... Even the "Melee Mage" Samurai with their Iaijutsu's with cast times has Shinpu for SkS buff...)

As well as seeing the reverse of RDM where instead of being a caster who occasionally jumps in to do exactly 3 melee hits and then jumps back to being a caster, you have an mDPS who smashes people with a big hammer and zaps them with lightning between swings :D

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Lightning I feel makes some really cool visual effects and is underused vs something like fire or ice. My favorite visual part of Dark Souls was chucking lighnting spears and in D3 playing crusader to drop down from the sky in a thunderous boom (that conduit pylon was pretty cool too, the one that causes you to drip destructive lightning from yourself).

I think reverse Red Mage is a pretty good quick description.

Not sure how you feel about temporary Super Sayian modes for jobs but I bet the visual personal enhancing effect for a lightning based job could be pretty awesome. Maybe slamming their giant hammer into the ground and calling lightning down into it as a lightning rod and absorbing it all on contact :3.

Maybe could build some mechanic around charge, like when you hit them with lightning effects it causes a boost in your melee damage and opens up new spell/ability interactions - each strike (that's without a lightning effect) lowering the charge the target has. Due to the slow cadence can maybe argue for some bigger than normal melee effects/visuals, like being able to pound the ground like Thrall does with his Sundering skill in HotS (can give it a very long linear attack range). Now that a far away target has been hit by your thunderous sundering (thunder clap?) you can use your Thor jump / D3 Crusader fall from the heavens to strike from max range (oGCD), and come in with all your bravado :D.

Was just sort of tossing ideas out, lots of fun to have with lightning.

I'm curious though, I know you mentioned nautical in part because of Vikings but do you envision the job using any water theme'd moves?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

NUUUU, all your boats and seas are belong to my marauder ;). I also understand your argument that it's not that similar/is not an issue.

Just because of the whole navy theme of limsa and because Marauder is there was my only concern, its a very vague similarity and could definitely be written over/around (it's not like only one culture learned how to use boats lol) - but that's why I made sure it was a minority of my post/not bother you with like "B-b-but the name, so kill the whole thread" lol :D.

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Yeah... Well, one thing to remember is that SE themselves created the Viking job as a separate entity to Warrior/Marauder/Berserker/Pirate.

With often very different mechanics (I.e. Viking was often more of a spell caster than a "I'mma beat your face with an axe/hammer/sword/shield" type job)

Then there's the whole aspect of Vikings that people often forget. They're mostly farmers. They just happened to use boats a lot because they wanted to find better farm land by sailing across the ocean to places like Britain. Also... Pillaging, because well... They could.

Meanwhile Pirates were about living on the seas and fighting other ships with cannons and guns and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Lightning I feel makes some really cool visual effects and is underused vs something like fire or ice. My favorite visual part of Dark Souls was chucking lighting spears and in D3 playing crusader to drop down from the sky in a thunderous boom (that conduit pylon was pretty cool too, the one that causes you to drip destructive lightning from yourself).

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Yeah, lightning has some pretty funky potential effects. Also, D3 Crusader was a blast. Easily had some of the coolest skills (Even if stuff like the one where you crashed down from the sky was pretty sucky for actual gameplay)

But yeah, between games like Infamous, Dark Souls, D3 and even Path of Exile, there's plenty of cool abilities and lightning effects available:

Examples from PoE - Lightning Tendrils, Shock Nova and Storm Call:

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/patho...a6e93209f1eb35

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/patho...f5f2baf6a34e7a

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/patho...3b69c423ccbe1a

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Not sure how you feel about temporary Super Sayian modes for jobs but I bet the visual personal enhancing effect for a lightning based job could be pretty awesome. Maybe slamming their giant hammer into the ground and calling lighting down into it as a lightning rod and absorbing it all on contact :3.

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I quite like a lot of character effects. Things like Warrior's Gauge giving that orange aura. Dragoon's and the Blood of the Dragon effect. Quite neat.

Lots of potential for a lightning based job. Like, imagine lightning running up your arms, crackling down your weapon, arcing from your body to the ground. Melee strikes having a bolt of lightning come down from the sky, cleaves that send lightning chaining through all the enemies (Making the odd way that AoE's are handled make sense :rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I'm curious though, I know you mentioned nautical in part because of Vikings but do you envision the job using any water theme'd moves?

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I mean, initially, not really. Since I was going for a Lightning + Thunder theme (Lightning being the electrical strike we all know and love, Thunder being the noise created by the lightning vibrating the air particles due to electron movement and heat)

However, there is potential for some Water themed moves, though I wouldn't want to go too heavy on them lest the storm theme kind of gets washed out so to speak.

If we look at my sources of inspiration (I.e. Tactics A2 Viking) they actually have a skill called Tsunami, where they send a massive wave crashing into enemies.

It's possible that maybe Viking is the job that gets the ancient magic Flood too.