Is it against the TOS to repost irems on the MB?

Say a player purchase 10 items at 70k then reposts them at 250k one at a time to control the supply and price on a server of a particular item.

Is this type of behavior against the TOS? Is this something a GM could look into?

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Originally Posted by Riixie

Say a player purchase 10 items at 70k then reposts them at 250k one at a time to control the supply and price on a server of a particular item.

Is this type of behavior against the TOS? Is this something a GM could look into?

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"Buy low, sell high, profit"

That's a common mentality, isn't it? I don't think it's against the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Riixie

Say a player purchase 10 items at 70k then reposts them at 250k one at a time to control the supply and price on a server of a particular item.

Is this type of behavior against the TOS? Is this something a GM could look into?

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No. Perfectly fine to do.

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Originally Posted by Riixie

Say a player purchase 10 items at 70k then reposts them at 250k one at a time to control the supply and price on a server of a particular item.

Is this type of behavior against the TOS? Is this something a GM could look into?

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No lol thats called being a merchant perfectly okay lol

It's impossible for anyone one person to control a market 100%, because the supply is infinite.

No matter what item someone else is selling--you can obtain one and sell it too. They're never have a monopoly on it. If someone is selling 380 crafted gear? You can craft some too!

Keep in mind that if someone is buying out a 70k item and relisting them at 250k. That means there's at least 180k profit margin there. It'd only be a matter of time before other smart crafters realize there's a goldmine there and will jump in. Though, that competition will still want to get around 250k~ for it. It's not often someone will see that margin. Make an item, and then post it for 70k, lol.

But over time the market will lower due to competition. Then as the profits dry up--people leave the market. Then someone can swoop in, clean house of the cheap stuff and reset the price. Welcome to economy 101! The best part about fictional economies with infinite resources is that ANYONE can play! All you need are brains and dedication.

As soon as someone buys the item it belongs to them, and is theirs to do whatever they want with it. You, as the initial seller/crafter, relinquish all rights to the item as soon as you receive the payment you originally requested.

Why would there be anything wrong with this? Besides, most of the time when this happens, people start to farm or sell their own supply of said item and the price goes back down after a little time.

If you want to do something about it, earn/make the item yourself and compete.

This is just basic capitalism, game economies aren't an exception to this rule.

the amount of times ive seen night Pegasuses bought for 1.7mil then put back up for 17 mil as a big middle finger to the person who forgot one zero

is alot

Yes, it does. It falls under

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person\\'s game play by some means.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

Yes, it does. It falls under

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person\\'s game play by some means.

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No it doesn't

If that's the case, I would have been banned long ago. I'm not a MB player, but if I see a good deal, I'll take risks at times. Like buying 11 offensive logograms for 180k a piece and reselling them for 299k (which was the next highest price). Profit.

No it's not against the TOS, however, with how many bots infest the MB lately its risky because you're likely to not sell everything before the bots destroy the value again.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

Yes, it does. It falls under

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person\\'s game play by some means.

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No it does not, stop it.

This is business. People just simply need to learn to play the market better.

No. You can do what you want. That's the fastest way I know of to get shards.

Why on earth would anyone even consider that relisting an item would be against the ToS? If someone lists an item at a vastly reduced rate it is for one of three reasons...

1) They have no idea of the perceived value of the item to others
2) They have an idea of the perceived value but want a quick sale
3) They have an idea of the perceived value and made an error

In item 1 the person could have (actually should have) checked the historic sales for the item first.
In item 2 its perfectly fine - the seller went in with their eyes open and was happy to make what some consider is a loss as they perceive the value to be higher.
In item 3 its a shame but the value should be checked and checked again before you list.

Many will sell for reason 2 - to make a quick profit. Some of these sales will probably be snapped up and relisted. Thats perfectly fine. Nobody is losing out anything.


NB - I used "perceived value" on purpose as no item has a "real value" apart from those sold by NPC vendors and even then the perceived value of those items are sometimes somewhat higher for some reason.

There's nothing wrong with this behavior, but I have noticed that it is rather commonly abused by market board bots who'll just camp out on a certain item and immediately buy out anything that's posted below a certain price threshold, (Presumably with the intent of keeping prices within a certain range).

If there's anything wrong with the marketboard right now, it's how heavily infested it is by bots, the most common types being consumable flooders and undercutters.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

There's nothing wrong with this normally, but I have seen botters running scripts that auto-purchase anything below a certain price threshold for various reasons, including reselling at higher prices.

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What the bots are doing however is perfectly fine - buy low and sell high. What is wrong here is the fact that they are bots and they should be removed when reported with all their inventory removed. The reporting and removal of the bots who do this is the real issue then :(

No, intelligently playing the market is not a punishable offense.

If they are using bots, however, that is a punishable offense.

I'm curious to know if any game has a policy of punishing smart buyers and sellers. However, the real problem lay in the dopes who don't check the purchase history and notice that they are being manipulated. Then the even bigger dopes who buy it anyway and make it worse for the rest of us. But, such is a free market life.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

the amount of times ive seen night Pegasuses bought for 1.7mil then put back up for 17 mil as a big middle finger to the person who forgot one zero

is alot

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I once bought one for 10mil and spent like 5 months trying to move it for 20m and eventually got tired of it and just learned the dang thing, lol

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Originally Posted by K3KW4RCHILD

I'm curious to know if any game has a policy of punishing smart buyers and sellers. However, the real problem lay in the dopes who don't check the purchase history and notice that they are being manipulated. Then the even bigger dopes who buy it anyway and make it worse for the rest of us. But, such is a free market life.

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I've honestly found that there's a lot of folks - more than I've met in other MMOs, it feels like - here that haven't ever played another online game before. That's not a bad thing, I'm more than happy to see the field expanding. Add that to SE's usual practice of going out of their way to change things to match the players' whims & needs/protect them, though, and you frequently get a lot of questions like this where folks mistake something that's disadvantageous/inconvenient for something "wrong." Heck, I think this is the first game I ever played where I could actually buy everything that's currently on the MB but not placed there by Gil sellers/money transfer mules.

It is always funny, though, to see someone go off in high dudgeon about some "absolutely idiotic design flaw" and it's like... game queues or rng or crafting and you just have to say... this is your first MMO, isn't it, bud?

As far as i know the only thing thats against TOS is when people deliberatly sell their items to an alt account to manipulate the market and create a fake price for the item.
This however is very hard to get proof of a player doing.
And even with this i think it's kind of a grey area wheter it can be punished or not.

If SE REALLY wanted to stop people from reposting things on the MB, they'd tags items with 'Untradeable' after the first purchase. Crafters could buy all the mats in the world they want as a newly crafted item would still be sellable.
The only immediate problems I can see with this system is how SE requires stacks of items to be purchased completely. So if a person needed 1 of something, and the only options on the MB were stacks on 50+, that would leave them stuck with items they didn't want and couldn't resell.
So we either keep the status quo we have, or SE has to rework the entire MB and item trading systems, and probably fudge up the economy as well.

This is no more against the rules then buying something from an npc vendor and listing it for much more then what you paid. And if someone is immediately relisting something ill happily sell them all my supply at like 75% of their asking price. They get to feel like they "control" a market, i get a fast turnaround to clean up my inventories and can list something else. And if theyre wrong about the demand for the item then they end up stuck with it all.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

I've honestly found that there's a lot of folks - more than I've met in other MMOs, it feels like - here that haven't ever played another online game before.

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It probably is quite a large number due to the Final Fantasy brand, which with one exception has always focused on single-player (or at least not MMO) games. For a lot of people playing just due to the brand it would be their first MMO (or at least first in this style).

The OP reminded me of an incident a read where a player threatened to report another because they bought an item off the MB which had been mis-priced.

Unfortunately no. And I only say 'unfortunately' because when new recipes come out, someone will usually buy out the mats for it and resell them at ridiculous prices. So for people like me who only have one crafter and one gatherer at a level to do advanced recipes or gathering it can get really annoying. But again, that's business. I feel like this is the reason why a lot of the new mats are locked behind map RNG. Which is even more annoying than dealing with inflation, IMO.

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Originally Posted by K3KW4RCHILD

I'm curious to know if any game has a policy of punishing smart buyers and sellers. However, the real problem lay in the dopes who don't check the purchase history and notice that they are being manipulated. Then the even bigger dopes who buy it anyway and make it worse for the rest of us. But, such is a free market life.

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Not everyone is aware that market history is available for viewing. It also only goes back a certain number of purchases so there might not be enough to see the price fluctuation depending on the item and the quantity people usually list it in.

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Originally Posted by Colino

The OP reminded me of an incident a read where a player threatened to report another because they bought an item off the MB which had been mis-priced.

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That's the awkward thing about having the MB listings by retainer name. In WoW if I saw something clearly mispriced I could mail the seller extra gold to make up the difference between fair market value and what I paid, or even the item itself back if I had found it while listing a similar item and didn't actually want it.

Can't do that here so while I appreciate the bargain, I'd feel better if I could have paid the seller something more reasonable.

But there's no wrong doing involved to be reported (short of someone using a bot). People are free to buy what they want to relist for profit, or sell what they want at any price. If they're careless about the price they list an item for but don't catch it before it's sold, it's a lesson for them to be more careful in the future.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person\\'s game play by some means.

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While technically, it could mean that, there was a tweet I received (that I'd like to link but would prefer not to run the risk of it due to the potential of a rule breach, but I'd probably be OK), but here's what it said for the response for the GMs.

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Greetings [name],

Thank you for contacting the FINAL FANTASY XIV Support Desk.

Regarding the new prohitibited behaviour, we would like to inform you that you are more than welcome to give advice to other players, or are obviously allowed to disagree with another player.

However, those rules are a reminder so you don't forget to be considerate or understanding when talking to each other. In other words, our new policy aims to create a more friendly atmosphere between our players.

Therefore, please rest arrured that even if you get reported in the future, we won't issue any penalty if you don't breach the rules stated on our Support (screenshot cuts out here)

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This leads me to believe that this therefore won't be punished, and that the rules are set in place so as to give GMs extra leeway as to act, in order to give them a better leg to stand on in the event someone sues Square Enix over a ban (yes, there will be people insane enough to do that), as well as ensuring that people are reminded to be considerate and understanding to each other.

Sometimes I'll only need one item, but there won't be a single available on the MB, so I'll resell the extras. I try to be courteous and only list them for the amount I paid, though.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Unfortunately no. And I only say 'unfortunately' because when new recipes come out, someone will usually buy out the mats for it and resell them at ridiculous prices. So for people like me who only have one crafter and one gatherer at a level to do advanced recipes or gathering it can get really annoying. But again, that's business. I feel like this is the reason why a lot of the new mats are locked behind map RNG. Which is even more annoying than dealing with inflation, IMO.

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But in those cases aren't you essentially trying to do the same thing, cash in on the spending spree generated by new items being introduced? At least the people you describe are doing their research and not just camping the MB to arbitrarily raise prices on common items. I dont have a problem with the buy low sell high crowd. As a crafter and gatherer I sometimes have an urge to see them as bottom feeders, but that's only when they inconvenience me. As a whole I liken them more to people playing the stock market, there's a risk involved, and in a way they might even be good for the economy, they help stabilize things when prices start to bottom out. They're playing the market board same as the rest of us who do, just another cog in the machine.

You do know if SE didnt want this to occur they would just making items bind to you once you buy em off the MB.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

Yes, it does. It falls under

・Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person\\'s game play by some means.

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Classifying it as such obstructs my gameplay by some means in regards to making gil.

So... No it doesn't count.

But then we can play this game of "You find me offensive well I find you offensive for finding me offensive" all day.