Hello guys, new to the forums. I've recently resubbed after the BFA disaster and I love my old main classes, warrior and scholar, but want to try another tanking class. However, I don't have access to heavensward still and gladiator just feels weird to me. I'm not sure if its the lack of damaging AOE or something, but it feels lame compared to WAR. Does PLD get better feeling or should I just give up on it?
Early paladin feels weird?
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02-01-2019, 01:45 PMDocQuixoticEarly paladin feels weird?
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02-01-2019, 02:02 PMDalmacus
2.0 paladins only have 1 combo halone. But in heavensward and stormblood they get massive improvements. So don't worry and just enjoy it!
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02-01-2019, 02:08 PMDocQuixotic
Ah that's probably it. Right now it just dosen't seem to flow right. Thanks for the advice.
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02-01-2019, 03:53 PMKalise
Paladin just has some really unfortunate spacing of its skills.
Like, it only has a single combo until level 54 and it's AoE damage isn't until level 46/50.
But after you hit level 50, things start to improve pretty quickly for PLD (Well... Until you do some level sync content and go back to Halone spam...) -
02-02-2019, 07:30 AMDrakkaelus
Yeah, it didn't occur to SE to make Paladins any fun to play until you're near lvl 60.
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02-02-2019, 01:45 PMEnkidohDepends how you define 'fun to play': if you're looking for a class/Job with multiple complex skillchain combos and ability swapping, then of course you're going to be bored. But you have to remember GLA/PLD is set up to be easy to play for a reason - it's looked on as the 'beginner' tank, one with an easy set of combos and simple mechanics to ease a new player into the tanking role. That's not to say it's 'baby's first tank' though, as it's not. In the hands of a skilled player GLA/PLD is very effective and a lot of fun. You just need to look at the bigger picture here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkaelus
And that also means looking at it's early levels from a different perspective. It's lack of AoE attacks early on and two skillchain combos (funny how everyone seems to forget Fast Blade+Riot Blade even exists, given it does the exact same damage as Fast Blade+Savage Blade, only it regenerates MP instead of boosting hate) are not a reflection of the class as 'boring'. It's meant to be a learning curve: you're meant to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run, and run before you can step into a car and drive off. Don't expect to be able to just get your driver's licence when you're still in preschool (but I think I pushed that metaphor too far). ;) -
02-02-2019, 04:34 PMKaliseProbably because you get Rage of Halone at the early level of 26, which makes Riot Blade utterly useless because it won't chain into a similar 3rd strike until Goring Blade on level 54. I mean, unless you're really needing that MP after spamming... Flash? Your only MP costing skill until level 58.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
(Also, Riot Blade actually does more damage than Savage Blade. RB is 240 potency vs SB's 210. Just, Rage of Halone is 270 potency so is better than just FB+RB spam due to fewer 160 potency Fast Blades)
Even so, having a second combo (Thus, not having a useless Riot Blade) at a more reasonable level (Both WAR and DRK get their second combo attacks at level 38 for example) wouldn't necessarily make the class excessively complex. Especially when you consider that the first additional combo they get, Goring Blade, is a DoT that has lower upfront potency than Rage of Halone meaning you'd still be spamming Halone most of the time, but just maintaining the DoT from Goring every 21 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
In addition, having a second AoE skill, one that deals damage, earlier wouldn't massively influence the complexity. But it would help PLD feel better to use in AoE situations where both WAR and DRK get AoE damage at level 10 and 6 respectively.
This isn't to mention how this "Beginner" tank has this thing where from level 50 it ramps up in complexity. Since it starts to access many of its core skills, as well as getting its job gauge and also its dual resource management. Literally level 50-60 PLD gains more complexity than 1-50 WAR or DRK. At the cost of 1-50 PLD being frustratingly simple because it just doesn't DO anything. It has Flash for AoE and it has Rage of Halone as a single combo. That's it, that's its entire kit until you hit 40+ and start to access some actual skills (Such as Spirit's Within, Total Eclipse and Circle of Scorn) -
02-03-2019, 07:14 AMDrakkaelusSomething that doesn't have me watching Netflix or YouTube when I'm supposed to be engaged in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
But that's just me.
No, at the early levels PLD is the very definition of, "baby's first tank". It doesn't take 50+ levels to learn how to use more than one combo. Yeah, you crawl before you walk but if you're still crawling while everyone else is doing a gymnastics routine, it might be taking you a little too long to get going. There is absolutely nothing going on in these early dungeons that's so complex that it necessitates only having a single combo to balance it out.Quote:
if you're looking for a class/Job with multiple complex skillchain combos and ability swapping, then of course you're going to be bored. But you have to remember GLA/PLD is set up to be easy to play for a reason - it's looked on as the 'beginner' tank, one with an easy set of combos and simple mechanics to ease a new player into the tanking role. That's not to say it's 'baby's first tank' though, as it's not. In the hands of a skilled player GLA/PLD is very effective and a lot of fun. You just need to look at the bigger picture here.
And that also means looking at it's early levels from a different perspective. It's lack of AoE attacks early on and two skillchain combos (funny how everyone seems to forget Fast Blade+Riot Blade even exists, given it does the exact same damage as Fast Blade+Savage Blade, only it regenerates MP instead of boosting hate) are not a reflection of the class as 'boring'. It's meant to be a learning curve: you're meant to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run, and run before you can step into a car and drive off. Don't expect to be able to just get your driver's licence when you're still in preschool (but I think I pushed that metaphor too far). ;)
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02-05-2019, 02:48 AMBright-Flower
PLD is very dull early on.
It never becomes a 'complicated' job but by the time you get to level 70 there is more going on, with Requiscat > Holy SPirit spam, a dps combo with a dot finisher and a flat damage finisher etc. But early on it's very dull and I'm always hesitant to queue for leveling roulette because while PLD has enough going on for me at 70 it's very dull early on. But then, a lot of jobs feel incomplete and boring at lower levels, not just PLD. -
02-06-2019, 01:09 AMBaratanFaenthand
WAR is definitely better up until 50 then it starts to even out. Paladin has poor spacing of their abilities.
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02-06-2019, 10:16 PMPhoenicia
OK I may be very biased here since I hated ARR PLD. But PLD is terrible until 64 where you get Holy Spirit. (it was terrible even at 60 in HW but the fixes in SB retroactively fixed a lot of those issues like lack of AoE damage and bad DPS combo that had aggro move in it).
The lack of AoE (which you spend a lot of the leveling experience using), lack of combo variety until 60, TP issues because you only have TP costing moves and nothing to help you regen TP until 64 (where you spend some MP while TP regenerates) just kills the job for me.
Then to be fair, I find most jobs unbearable in under cap content. WAR losing Inner Release upsets me. With the removal of the third combo, Dot, Reprisal, DRK's playstyle was a snore fest until 68 (gauge spender in Bloodspiller) and it's mitigation was a joke until TBN at 70. I can go on to the DPS but that is besides the point.
However, once you learn Holy Spirit (and later on Requiscat) PLD picks up. I main it now (along with dark knight since they share gear and melds). PLD feels so good main tanking (as long as you don't force me to initially pull) , off tanking (I can do so much for the MT and raid), or even my DPS. As a matter of fact, PLD's "max DPS" value is higher than WAR because every raid buff can benefit the PLD. (WAR has a higher base DPS because it brings its own slashing debuff and is not affected by raid crit and direct hit buffs due to how Berserk/Inner Release guarantee DCH. Its burst nature also inflates its numbers against the other two tanks in fights with any form of down time). -
02-06-2019, 11:25 PMKaliseTP issues? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenicia
I'm sort of confused about that. Given that really, the only time you can run out of TP as a tank is when spamming your AoE or ranged attack. But PLD has the thing where not only do they not really spam their AoE (Because for the most part, it's Flash and not something that deals damage) and the fact that because their AoE is mostly just Flash until level 46 it doesn't actually use TP...
As a WAR, sure, running empty on TP can happen when you're spamming Overpower... But PLD? I haven't really noticed that to be the case.
True, many jobs don't feel complete until max level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenicia
However, plenty of jobs are decent enough at lower levels. With in my opinion, only a few notable examples that are pretty dire... PLD is one of them, given their complete lack of well... Anything pre-50. BLM is utter trash pre-40 when you have access to Blizzard III and Fire III to properly swap between Astral Fire/Ice (It improves a lot more at 60 when you have Blizzard IV and Fire IV but it at least feels like a cohesive job 40+). SAM feels kind of lame pre-50 for that final and most used Iaijutsu.
Oh, and then there's MNK, which I've yet to level mine to a point where it doesn't feel trash (I assume this is because I don't group very much when leveling my DPS and like half of MNK's potency is from directional skills so feels like ass when solo)
I think the rest of the jobs feel good enough at lower levels. With only a few mild annoyances, such as Gravity being level 52 or Redoublement (The skill that makes RDM's melee combo worth using over Verthunder/Veraero spam) being level 50.
But I guess it's preference in the end. Like, do I miss Inner Release when sync'd as Warrior? Sure. But I think the job still feels fine without it, given it has most of the core kit by level 38, with AoE, 2 different combos and the Beast Gauge (And a skill to use with it), things after that point are just luxuries that add to the class, rather than core things like the rest of a combo that you get the start of at level <10 *Glares at Riot Blade and Impulse Drive/Disembowel* -
02-07-2019, 12:21 AMPhoeniciaIf you read my post carefully, I was referring to ARR and HW. PLDs ran out of TP on single target in exactly 180 seconds at 0 skill speed. Gets worse with SKS gear and buffs like Arrow/Fairy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalise
WAR shouldn't have TP issues because they have TP-free moves (such as Steel Cyclone in AoE and Inner Beast in ST) and their AoE contributes highly to things dying faster as opposed to the PLD's lower per-GCD average AoE damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalise
I know that plenty of jobs "Pick up" early. But it does not change the fact that the "main mechanic" that gives the job its identity is so back loaded into the highest of levels. The problem isn't leveling the first time, the leveling experience is actually good for most jobs. It is level-sync down once you reach those "fun" levels that makes you realize how the pacing isn't always very good. It was worse actually, remember when PLD learned Sword Oath 10, TEN, levels before Shield Oath? haha, yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalise
So, yes WAR gets its gauge Inner Beast at 35 and its DPS combo by 38, but Fell Cleave is 54 and IR is 70!
BLM gets Fire III and Blizzard III around early 40s, but the real fun begines when you get Fire IV at 60.
SMN's Tri-Distaster (being its main source of DoT application in 3 out of 4 casts) is level 56 and its reset (DWT) is 60, until then you literally apply DoTs and wait a 1 minute timer to do actual damage with Festers or Bane (which was nerfed too hard).
DRG's Blood of the Dragon is 54, 4th step of combos at 56/58 and its real use (Geirskogul) is 60. Their 5th step combo via Lance Mastery (DRG's "other" unique mechanic) is at 64.
BRD is not as fun until Iron Jaws and Empyreal Arrow.
I mentioned DRK and PLD in my previous post and the list can really go on on why I dislike down-sync to anything under 60~70 based on job. But then again, I began my post with a clear "I may be biased". :)