Relic Idea for 5.0

The Relic Weapon grind has been a daunting (and very repetitive) grind for a lot of people for something that is pretty much only used for glamour. I myself attempted the ARR, HW and SB relics but ultimately gave up after the initial grind which always seems to be the worst for me. I honestly don't know what was worse...the "book step," Fate Grinding for crystals or the Eureka.

Although many of these do get nerfed, they're still mind-numbingly boring and require A LOT of work for something only used for appearance.

So I was thinking what about assembling a weapon that grows with you. That way you can play through the game normally acquiring EXP for your weapon that will essentially level it up. The first step would again be the hardest having to find the parts needed to build the weapon which would drop from various monsters in dungeons, fates, World Map, etc. This would also allow the player to literally customize the look of the weapon. (DRK for example will have different styles for the blade, hilt, glow color/style, etc)

Have it cap at a certain point per patch. Once uncapped, you'll be able to obtain more EXP to level it up. In a way, since it's easier to obtain than the Raid stuff have it sit at a higher item level than the Tomestone Weapons but slightly lower than the 24-man raid stuff and instead of having 5 slots, maybe 3 instead? I mean...it's still a grind but at least you can play through the game and still work on your weapon without being stuck in some boring world or running the same dungeons repeatedly grinding light...

What are some ideas for a Relic Grind that you guys have?

Hmm... I feel like I've seen this type of system before...

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Legendary_Items

The main problem I have with the "Get exp for your weapon" idea, is that it's basically the light stage of the older relics. I hate that stage, mainly because it forces me to use a shitty weapon for the duration. And you know someone will find the optimal way to do it, so it does indeed become "running the same dungeons repeatedly grinding light".

I'd like to see something new as well, but I haven't been able to conjure up any decent ideas.

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Originally Posted by Renato

Although many of these do get nerfed, they're still mind-numbingly boring and require A LOT of work for something only used for appearance.

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I don't see this ever changing, given how formulaic the game has gotten.

While I do think that customizing our Relics would be amazing, the fact of the matter is that Relic Weapons have always been either a time or money sink or both. I do agree that the monotony of the grind can really get old, especially when RNGesus has his way with you. Unfortunately It is hard to implement something that negates the grind without it being something of relatively equal value somewhere else (i.e. in game currency or irl currency). The Relic is a status symbol, a really shiny trophy that you can use, like every other high end weapon in the game, it just offers a different approach than Spamming Savage or Primals.

I do like your idea though, would be interesting to be able to customize a weapon and pick which options we add on to it, giving everyone the opportunity to really have their own custom weapons.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

The main problem I have with the "Get exp for your weapon" idea, is that it's basically the light stage of the older relics. I hate that stage, mainly because it forces me to use a shitty weapon for the duration. And you know someone will find the optimal way to do it, so it does indeed become "running the same dungeons repeatedly grinding light".



I don't see this ever changing, given how formulaic the game has gotten.

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Personally, I think the ones like the light gathering are the most tolerable parts as it's gained merely by playing the game and is an entirely quantifiable grind.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Personally, I think the ones like the light gathering are the most tolerable parts as it's gained merely by playing the game and is an entirely quantifiable grind.

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The issue here is that it's only quantifiable for that patch, after which you'll have a better weapon and then does become an out-of-the-way grind. It's the reason I haven't gotten light for any of my HW relics; it's not viable in anything current, and I'm gimping myself any time I equip the weapon (unless I do pvp). I'm cool with the initial concept, but I wish there was a way to make it less onerous when doing it as no-longer-current content.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

The main problem I have with the "Get exp for your weapon" idea, is that it's basically the light stage of the older relics. I hate that stage, mainly because it forces me to use a shitty weapon for the duration.

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Sort of. I'm thinking you could gain exp from any activity..as long as you're using the weapon. If SE put the weapon out at the right time, it could be a viable option for your character as well. It'd be slightly weaker than the savage weapon so you'd be using that during the weeks you're capped from getting the item you need to obtain the savage weapon. And for people who don't savage raid, they would have this option for a powerful weapon (once capped) as the patches release.

The tier would be something like this:
Tomestone>Crafted>Augmented Crafted>Augmented Tomestone>Relic>Raid

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Originally Posted by Malzian

Hmm... I feel like I've seen this type of system before...

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Legendary_Items

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Never played it.

Suggestion 1: Never do Eureka or anything resembling it, ever again.

Suggestion 2: Don't ever lock upgradable AF gear behind it again. Better yet, limit it to weapons only again.

Suggestion 3: Keep the current relic's ilvl relevant to whatever the current raiding ilvl is. Ideally, make it the same ilvl as the upgraded tome weapon throughout the expansion, and make it equal to the raid weapon in the final raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

Suggestion 1: Never do Eureka or anything resembling it, ever again.

Suggestion 2: Don't ever lock upgradable AF gear behind it again. Better yet, limit it to weapons only again.

Suggestion 3: Keep the current relic's ilvl relevant to whatever the current raiding ilvl is. Ideally, make it the same ilvl as the upgraded tome weapon throughout the expansion, and make it equal to the raid weapon in the final raid tier.

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All valid points. The only thing I worry about is the backlash from raiders...They already get extra boss fights only accessible through doing savage raids and access to the weapons. They've made it pretty clear that if you want the perks of savage raiding that you just need to put forward the effort and do it. I could see Raiders having an issue with a weapon equivalant to the Raid Tier weapon.

My idea for the relic grinding system: Don't.

How about just a long ass questchain with lots of travel, specific duties, maybe even special duties. Oh and cutscenes that provide background lore for the weapons. It doesn't need to involve grinding.

Unfortunately I don't foresee SE ever making the relic a less daunting task even though it's worth nothing at all lol but to be fair each relic has it's like unbearable phase ARR is just unbearable all together Atma, books, light is borderline suicidal before nerd. HE has its crystal farm, unidentifiable item trash, and crystal sands/umbrite stages which were really bad because it forces you to use tomes the other stages for ARR and HW were quick simple and forgettable.

I hate saying this but SBs has been one of the more bareble ones, as much as I hate Eureka it’s feesable to actually do this relic with not so much of a hassle even though Pagos was its ultimate downfall. You can still catch up quick and easily.

Shoot me if you must but I actually want the 5.0 relic system to be more like Eureka.
Not in the sense of "please roll 700 times for good stats" but in the sense of your progression being linked to time invested rather than arbitrary amounts of currency.
There's a lot of terrible design choices in Eureka but they've honestly been some of the easier relics to get.

I just want 5.0 relics to not be so bright that let legitimatly hurt my eyes like how the Eureka ones do

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Originally Posted by Renato

All valid points. The only thing I worry about is the backlash from raiders...They already get extra boss fights only accessible through doing savage raids and access to the weapons. They've made it pretty clear that if you want the perks of savage raiding that you just need to put forward the effort and do it. I could see Raiders having an issue with a weapon equivalant to the Raid Tier weapon.

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Use FFIX's synthesis ability. Keep relic weapon relevant for current raid tier but with the added bonus of being able to synthesize it with the current raid tier/ultimate weapon, so there is advantage to doing both each raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

I hate saying this but SBs has been one of the more bareble ones, as much as I hate Eureka it’s feesable to actually do this relic with not so much of a hassle even though Pagos was its ultimate downfall. You can still catch up quick and easily.

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It is. Even though it's not perfect, at least the good thing is you don't have to go through all the steps all over again every time you start a new weapon compared to HW and ARR. SE should take that into consideration for 5.0. I only did one ARR and HW relic and when I decided to do another one after all the nerfing, I just gave up after remembering what I'll have to do again.

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Originally Posted by Renato

All valid points. The only thing I worry about is the backlash from raiders...They already get extra boss fights only accessible through doing savage raids and access to the weapons. They've made it pretty clear that if you want the perks of savage raiding that you just need to put forward the effort and do it. I could see Raiders having an issue with a weapon equivalant to the Raid Tier weapon.

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By keeping it equal to the upgraded tome weapon, it becomes a viable option for a raiding weapon, but still lags behind the raid weapon by 5 ilvls. This is already possible to do without going into Savage by hunting, another option that should also be keeping a better pace with raiding. Relic weapon steps and weapon dip upgrades via hunting should be released at the next patch following the release of a raid tier (both of which have an ilvl below the raid weapon). I believe raiders should be the first players to reach the highest ilvls, but not the only players. By the time the relic weapon is BiS, raiders will have long since gotten their toys and won't care anymore.

I'm really sad I'll never get Eureka relic, I really try to do it but I litterally fall asleep while grinding (like for real)
I did 3 HW relic, but this one, even while only doing it after nerf (and I wait for the nerf) it just takes too much effort, by that I mean will power.
I don't really mind grind, I've grinded all dungeons for every armor set, I've over 40 rabanastre coin (because I wanted to get all the sets), I got all my wolf but one by killing the boss 99 times, but this.. this one... it's just too much, not only is it long, but it's so brainless it just makes me want to stop playing altogether.

I really hope the 5.X relic will be less brain dead... if it's Eureka 2.0 I won't even attempt it, not even the quest for the story (which I'm not even sure I'll ever complete...)

Make them actually worth a %#*% not just at the tail end of an expansion. /Shrugs

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Originally Posted by Balipu

My idea for the relic grinding system: Don't.

How about just a long ass questchain with lots of travel, specific duties, maybe even special duties. Oh and cutscenes that provide background lore for the weapons. It doesn't need to involve grinding.

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I realy like this idea. I wish we got some more information on the relic you are getting. That was one nice thing about the ARR relic, each weapon had a backstory (even if it was only a small amount). The HW relic was nice too because the story was progressing as you did it. I liked that the SB Relic wasn't as hard to obtain, but there is no story behind it really.

I haven't had an issue with any of the relic grinds. I won't be doing any progression towards the SB relic, but that's because I wanted to do things differently this time around. Previously, I always progressed my relic instead of using alternative means to get stronger weapons. I enjoyed it, but one thing I noticed was that I wasn't running relevant content to progress it. You can light farm in raids, but I didn't start progressing raid content until roulettes were introduced, and by this time I have already completed several relics.

Even if SB did the relic like days past, I still would be going the tome/token route I am now. It's the first time I am actually somewhat caught up and running the same 8 and 24 man raids with everyone else. Gearing up through several means in order to hit min ilv is totally new to me since I was always able to just poetic my way to BiS gear for a previous expansion.

Also, I got a bit tired of glowy weapons.

Well... If we become the warrior of darkness does that mean we farm darkness for the next relic?

If so that sounds really easy after watching konosuba… >.>

Mastercrafting. Have raids and other serious content (to be added, I guess) drop actual parts. Some are the chassis, while others can only augment or act as base material for other chassis.

You can build up rep, essentially, with different NPC artisans and so forth so they can augment, install, or assemble these parts. Or you can find player crafters. Or be one.

You build your own relic.

Granular, but with noticeable breakpoints to be hyped about. Few if any parts are RNG-based. Difficult content may be required, however. Grindy options allow you access to easier combat tasks by which to instead acquire the given part, but everything of value should as if directly from something difficult for the individual pursuer.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Mastercrafting. Have raids and other serious content (to be added, I guess) drop actual parts. Some are the chassis, while others can only augment or act as base material for other chassis.

You can build up rep, essentially, with different NPC artisans and so forth so they can augment, install, or assemble these parts. Or you can find player crafters. Or be one.

You build your own relic.

Granular, but with noticeable breakpoints to be hyped about. Few if any parts are RNG-based. Difficult content may be required, however. Grindy options allow you access to easier combat tasks by which to instead acquire the given part, but everything of value should as if directly from something difficult for the individual pursuer.

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I actually like this idea, and it makes sense lore wise as well. I know Gerolt is supposed to be 'the realm's greatest blacksmith', but damn it, our own crafting skill has got to be getting close to his by now.

1.- Second to only one during all expansion till patch X.55. Were it get's a +5 item level advantage over the prior raid weapon. It becomes best in slot.
2.- Stat customization will never be random, it will always be customizable.
3.- Progress will not be RNG based, it will be based on set goals of repeating tasks, beating challenges and the time frames will be sensible enough as to allow players to acquire easily 4 of these weapons during the "relevancy" of their usage. That is, about 3 times faster than the current acquisition speed.
4.- Aside customization through Glamours, at every step of the progress there will be at least one model alteration option available to players: Auras, Moving Parts, Both. Further steps could include "interchangeable" models or even alteration to weapon skill animations/colours based on the previous options.
5.- Lore background closely related to most important events in game, the Legendary Weapons are to become something more like the true partner or companion of the Warrior of Light/Darkness.

We need a relic that involves both open world, dungeons+trials and also includes the craft+gatherer system.
But not the ways we have seen so far, and im talking about random dungeon drop items/light farm, Atma grinding or buying off materials from market board.
It would be actually fun to reward people who have been farming parts to get turn ins from trials be it nm or ex mode. I actually liked Heavensward relic, because you had multiple ways to farm your needed materials with multiple ways such as crafting or running alexander nm raids.
What we miss is party made content, like quests you could do with your friends or other people in the open world. And im not talking about quests to just kill simply 1000 monsters. But quests that have some gimmicks to them, puzzles or exploration/go find an item without a marker indication but only hints.
We need a relic that is fun to do.

Honestly, I'd be okay if they just brought back the same system that was used for Heavensward. I think the biggest takeaway from Eureka for me has been that relic weapons have nowhere near enough of a prestige factor to warrant its own game feature for it, especially if that feature is as godawful as Eureka.

I want Eureka but without Pagos. Just take the advances and good from Eureka and make it like that from start to finish.


I actually like the concept of going somewhere to just DO RELIC stuff. I mean, in the open world I get very side tracked very easy.

Just the thought of getting more poetics for my relic gets drowned out by "hmmm, maybe I should level crafting!/ Oh, a maps party?/ I wanna Nid scale, those go for 4mil!/ I just need the last 3 birdos .../ Should I try to get another Dog?/ Can I finally clear snake boi if I try all night?/ I need to race my Chocobo for my Clog .."

When I go to Eureka I just focus on eureka and only do it for a bit. Enough to make progress until I feel like I'm good for the night and can return to the whirlwind of options I have.

I don't get the point of relics in the current state of the game if they only become worth-using late in the patches / game.
We're getting most likely iLvl 400-405 Hydatos weapons by mid February, but people into high level did not need them to down Alphascape Savage, people can pretty much beat Ext primals with basic gear, and having a BiS weapon won't make you avoid wiping an alliance on Orbonne if you cannot space out those red markers on Thundergod.

We need to give them some relevance in game before we think about a funky way to forge them in my opinion.

What I want from the Relic...

1. No requiring crafting/gathering classes. If they want to add them as an alternative to get something, maybe as a faster one, that I could understand. Like the last step of ilvl 210 HW Relic, unless you had the required crafting and gathering classes to 60 or were willing to spend way more gil than the weapon would ever be worth, you couldn't do it until 3.38 (the quests were added 3.15, there was 8 months between there).

2. Quantifiable grinds, no RNG. If you want people to do a whole load of FATEs, make it require that. Don't make things a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% drop from FATEs.

3. Keep it up to date, don't only update the relic with 5.x5 patches, but with the release of new raids, new tomestones and what not to keep the relics actually relevant in ilvl. Nothing quite like downgrading back to your "legendary" weapon because it's months out of date.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I want Eureka but without Pagos. Just take the advances and good from Eureka and make it like that from start to finish.

I actually like the concept of going somewhere to just DO RELIC stuff. I mean, in the open world I get very side tracked very easy.

When I go to Eureka I just focus on eureka and only do it for a bit. Enough to make progress until I feel like I'm good for the night and can return to the whirlwind of options I have.

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This is also my main draw to Eureka. Everything you do there is contributing to the Relic while also getting you tomes and lockboxes. I dreaded the step in HW when I had to get HQ crafted materials and 1 million poetics or w/e it was. I dont craft, i dont gather; i fight stuff and I'm mostly poor. Eureka is well suited for me.

They could try something that hasn't been done since ARR - they could try making it fun.

Suggested it a while ago but imo one of these relics should eat other items, such that they are able to match the ilvl of an item after being fed enough - but because they're a relic they'll have a slightly better stat break down too (so they ilvl 500 relic > ilvl 500 other gear). In such a way that relic is always better than any content out, after the relevant feeding has happened. Before you can feed the item perhaps you have preparation steps, these will be available sooner than new content is released so that when the new content releases players can start nursing their relic to primary status right away. Allowing you to make it quickly the top weapon again, so long as you prep the item during the down time, and still meaning new content is worth doing for the feeding and of course glamour. Due to a mechanic, that'd be nerfed later, you wouldn't be making a relic for every job you played in the beginning, just your main - so people would still use other items as a main weapon (to help make it so non-relic of matching ilvl is seen a bit more often).

Further onto that or in another relic I'd like to see a crystarium, license board, sphere grid for the relic. Perhaps building off of Shurrikhan the sphere grid is made from the parts you've put into it, so you've designed your own board depending on the order and parts (if there were five pieces to the relic, each part adds a grid piece and the total sum is called the sphere grid). Once a part has been mastered (full grid unlocked) there might be some special task presented that would reward an ability to socket to one of the ability slots in the relic, like master a mist dragon's part and you get an ability passive "chance to have Shade Shift to activate on critical hits, doesn't trigger cooldown". Mastered parts will be remembered, and the ability you learn from them, such that you can put in a new part and if you decide you can go back to the old fully unlocked section and or ability. The section (grid piece) is remembered separately from the ability learned. Such that if you had a mist grid piece mastered, that rewards the mist shift passive, and kirin grid piece, you could have the mist grid piece replaced by kirin and mist shift passive equipped. Going off of Shurrikhan's building idea it would allow players to build an okay relic quickly (casual relic) but for those who wanted to make THE BEST, which they could, it'll take more effort.

Savage and extreme content that doesn't have echo yet will not allow passives, just for balance reasons so abilities on items don't cause many issues (to prevent players from doing things like "Ninja rank 4 Mist Shift or kick").

Another concept they might try, is during relic progression steps you can cast an advanced glamour on the weapon which will cause it to mirror the stats as well - a very advanced unique glamour. In this way if SE has you go back to farm EXP, lights, or what have you, the process isn't so painful lol.

Honestly, Eureka is probably one of the better designed ways of getting a Relic weapon. You know, outside of the fact that Eureka is in of itself, horrible content.

Anyway... My 2 gil on the topic:

Creating a Relic weapon should be achievable through varied methods. Given that it's "The Grind" that draws in a bunch of people because of it being a constantly upgrading weapon throughout an expansion as well as a shiny unique glamour at the end that will last throughout future expansions.

So, something akin to the Sand part of the HW relic, where along with the (Egregious) amount of Umbrite, you also had to collect stuff to trade for equal amounts of Crystal Sand. With the items you could turn in being varied, such as Crafting or Gathering Scrips, Amber Encased Vilekin from Leves, Demimateria, items from EX Trials or Raids etc.

This would mean that the grind would be reduced, by the fact that people would be able to do the content they want to do and still be progressing through it. You wouldn't feel forced into say, spending 1000 hours per day in Eureka, or spamming Tam-Tara 900000 times to farm light, unless you actually wanted to.

In addition to a more flexible grind, what could also be neat is locking each stage of the weapon behind a Masked Carnivale style encounter. So that you have some interesting but somewhat challenging content to overcome, as well as some story to go along with your weapon. Which would help make the item feel more rewarding to obtain (As opposed to "You need to make the soul of the weapon stronger by fighting tough enemies!" > *Goes to farm level 15 dungeon unsync'd a million times*)

So yeah...

I vote for some flexible grinds, so that you can progress with a variety of content. I'd also like to see the stages function differently to each other such as with the ARR/HW relics rather than be the same old thing only in a newer and shittier zone as with Eureka. Finally, with unique encounters to advance each stage, with associated story, to make the weapons feel more epic to acquire.

As far as the item level goes, well... Being able to work on something competitive would be cool, without it just being outclassed by raid weapons outright, but also without being too easy to get and thus invalidate raid weapons. It's an odd one to balance. Since, on the one hand, they're grindy weapons and supposedly very powerful or legendary so would make sense to be the pinnacle weapons for the expansion if you can tough out the grind. On the other hand, actually completing 24 man raid content is more challenging than just grinding for weeks in some snoozefest area of the game...

I suppose you could make the argument that if the relic weapons stayed on par with the ilevel of the current tier of raid weapons, with Savage raids also giving items that can be used to boost the relic up to Savage ilevel (Or even higher) that could work. So raiders would get faster weapons, but still have incentive to farm out relics for better stat distributions (And/or slight item level boosts) if they are willing to put in the time to grind. Meanwhile non-Savage raiders would be able to stay on par with normal raiders weapons but wouldn't get to surpass Savage raiders.