It is entirely possible to make Blue Mage a full job while retaining all of its current identity. I know this is a wall, but please consider this.
Firstly:
We need to create spell list #6 which is strictly for group play (you cannot enter the Masked Carnivale with spell list #6 equipped).
Some spells will either need to be forbidden from being set, or will need to have their effect altered (which is already a system implemented in game via AST sects and ACN summons). One example of this could be making Level 5 Petrify apply an additional effect (like a DoT) whilst it is set in slot #6. This way it doesn't interfere with its combo with Drill Cannon and still serves a purpose.
Relevent enemies (even at 50) already have immunities to most of BLU's effects like petrify and paralyze as it is. Spells that paralyze and petrify can actually keep their effects, for the most part. They are functionally no different from a WHM Holy stunning trash packs, a BLM sleeping groups in low level dungeons, or a PLD pacifying a boss, and already feature diminishing returns. If absolutely needed: if an enemy is immune to Sleep, make it immune to paralyze (seems to be the case with bosses already); if an enemy is immune to stun, make them immune to petrify. It should also be noted that various potencies would also need to be altered if set in spell list #6.
- Set #6 will only work if it has a total amount of potency, or power. If you don't meet X amount of power, you can't queue; it would function just like any other check, like item level. This should be a range, however, with a minimum acceptable value as well as a maximum value.
- If you only meet the minimum power requirement, it will be due to having several support skills equipped. This minimum power should be roughly equal to RDM in DPS.
- If you hit the maximum power limit, it will be due to having no support skills equipped. This maximum power should be roughly equal to BLM in DPS.
Since we are limited to only setting 24 skills as it is, it should be very easy to balance when using a range-of-power system. It would even echo FFXI's system of each spell being worth so many points - with more powerful spells equating to be worth more points.
With the nature of spells that BLU gets in this iteration, it wouldn't likely be very cookie-cutter, either. You'll have some BLUs that prefer to focus on some support via spells like Ink Jet, Bad Breath and White Wind who pull the DPS of a RDM; you'll have some BLUs that prefer to go all out with damaging spells who pull the DPS of a BLM; you'll have some BLUs that fall somewhere in the middle pulling the DPS of a SMN. There may be some favored spells, like Peculiar Light, but that can/should be kept to a minimum by various methods.
Secondly:
We need to take a look at their gameplay. As it is, you pick your best potency spell and spam it. Spell list #6 should increase the recast on most, if not all, spells by quite a lot. However, with each cast of a blue magic spell, their spells on cooldown would have their cooldown reduced by a certain amount. Think of this in a way similar to Scholar's Aetherflow cooldown being made shorter with each use of an Aetherflow ability. This would prevent the overuse and misuse of abilities like White Wind and would be used to set up strategic abilities like Bad Breath (for its mitigation effect).
This not only sets up the BLU to choose the spells that they bring into battle, but also the order in which they use them (aside from spells with set combos (e.g. Aqua Breath > High Voltage)). You could play BLU as a long-range caster exclusively, a short-range caster exclusively, or even mix it up with both types similar to RDM if you wish due to spells like Flying Frenzy and Loom. You could focus purely on magical damage, purely on physical damage, or mix it up with a bit of both, especially should you be paired with a RDM who actually buff BLU's physical spells.
Thirdly:
An importtant thing to consider is the ability to make BLU a caster-based tank due to Mighty Guard. Setting Mighty Guard in spell list #6 could force a role-change and turn BLU into a tank. Some spells could be made to bypass the reduced damage while set in list #6 (e.g. breath and/or Primal spells), or be altered to feature a bypass for the damage reduction (e.g. Moon Flute) in a similar way that Warriors can do. Mighty Guard could feature additional passive effects while active to even out the tanking playing field, including HP and defense increases, inability to have casting interrupted etc. Diamondback and White Wind are already the perfect emergency buttons and the above gameplay idea would limit their usage/spammability.
The main problem with this however is that BLU tank would be very cookie-cutter. There are many abilities that would be required; Ice Spikes, Veil of the Whorl, and all of the aforementioned spells would be expected. The only spells that wouldn't be subject to this would be whatever is leftover for your DPS/combo choices. However, even with that, it may be better to feature a complete tank spell set list (list #7). This unfortunately would be very limiting but more easily balanced with other tanks; this would be a small sacrifice to make, though, when looking at the larger picture of giving BLU not only spell options but role options.
In closing:
I would never expect such a change to be rolled out all at once. I would never expect it to take priority over adding new content. I would like BLU to maintain its presence in the Masked Carnivale with future trials and to be able to run amok in the overworld and undersized parties with their spell sets 1 thru 5 at full power. I would like BLU's full power and the Masked Carnivale to be but one extension of the job, as playing songs in towns is an extension of BRD. I just wish for a job that has so much limited, to have the chance at being closer to unlimited.
* I fully give permission for any of my written ideas to be used by SE without accreditation.
BLU can be a full job. Here's how:
Printable View
-
01-30-2019, 10:06 AMMartaDemireuxBLU can be a full job. Here's how:
-
01-30-2019, 10:40 AMRitsukoSonoda
The potential party imbalance from BLU is primarily due to having skills that can essentially negate the need of a dedicated tank job and white wind IMO being fairly OP as a healing spell. At end game item levels we'd be looking at an AoE heal potentially doing about 35K+ HP per person.
Gameplay wise yeah most status effects are only going to be usable on trash. IMO rather than changing cooldowns I would rather add a bit more depth to gameplay by reviving the element rotation previously used by ninja in FFXI for their ninjutsu spells to be an ever rotating chain based on spell element to either gain potency or a bonus. So the specific spell doesn't matter just the element affinity of it would.
In the end however given how BLU is currently I wouldn't want it queueable in standard DF or roulettes without a premade party. I wouldn't mind it being usable in diadem, eureka, solo duties from quests and MSQ, and squadron missions. -
01-30-2019, 10:44 AMChaseNetworkSuppose Chaos dropped everyone to 1 HP at the start of the Dark Crystal phase, and you only had BLUs for healing... how would that work?Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
-
01-30-2019, 11:00 AMRitsukoSonodaHow does picking out 1 very specific obscure scenario make a valid argument when one can do so for pretty much anything in game?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseNetwork
I seriously doubt BLU would ever be put into a group to replace a healer due to their kit not having raise currently, status recovery, or healing buffs. You'd more likely have DPS that can fire off mass heals whenever they felt like it. -
01-30-2019, 11:02 AMReiMakotoWhenever they feel like it = whenever you have mana to do so, seriously you can only fire off so many white winds and have the mana to do a proper rotation without having to blood drain which tanks your dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
-
01-30-2019, 11:34 AMMartaDemireuxWhite Wind is only as strong as it is when it can be spammed at half or greater HP and when DPS and MP are not issues to consider. Limiting its use as I proposed with an overall gameplay change is a sensible fix for it. Other fixes for party-play could be keeping its spammability but as a single target heal limited by your MP and tanking your DPS, or applying it as a low potency but long duration HoT depending on HP% when used - again limited by a large MP cost which hurts your immediate DPS by casting the spell and longterm DPS by requiring the use of sustainability spells later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
The problem with giving BLU any semblance of a set rotation is why I brought in the Aetherflow idea. BLU honestly shouldn't have a set rotation - its rotation should be determined by the spells that the player wants to cast. If you want to be a full fire and earth caster, well eventually by max level there may be enough spells to be able to do that; my proposal would facilitate that playstyle so long as it stays within the acceptable range of power to be able to queue. -
01-30-2019, 11:37 AMHasrat
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced BLU is locked from DF due to low level instances more than late game.
It's a little bit broken, relatively, to have access to all your set spells, whether you're in Sastasha or any 50 dungeon. "If BLU can use their entire kit in every dungeon, why can't all jobs?" The arguments against unlocking all skills while synced are pretty solid, imo. BLU goes against that.
Plus, obviously, 1000 Needles is pretty overpowered in low level instances.
I'm guessing it wouldn't be an incredible challenge balancing BLU for late/current/end game content, with the expectation of working with a full kit just like everyone else. But, they get access to that full kit everywhere. Or, on the opposite end of that, the nightmare of balancing around a BLU that hasn't unlocked their full kit. (obviously now I'm just rolling back around to the old argument of how to assure BLU has the skills it needs, so I'll cut that off now, no need to retread that one I'm sure) -
01-30-2019, 11:57 AMMartaDemireuxThis is where the range of power - or a point system of sorts - comes into play. As long as the BLU meets the minimum, it should have no problem. Whether or not the kit is fully unlocked wouldn't matter, as the BLU would be restricted from entering until they met that minimum power paired with the fact that they can only have 24 spells set at any one time. Future spells would likely give more playstyle options rather than "necessary" abilities; this way any given BLU could play the way they want, whether that's as a DoT specialist, ranged, melee range physical spells, tied to simply one or two elements etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
As for "necessary" abilities, the solution to that is tie to them to job quests like Glower, or to totems like Off-Guard.
And for the part about low-level instances/1k Needles, it would entirely be possible to lock spell list #6 to being level 50 or higher. -
01-30-2019, 12:03 PMTsumdereThey wouldn't make very good healers or tanks either. They don't have proper cooldowns save Diamondback which takes an absolute load of mana and makes it so they cannot perform actions and they cannot tank swap or pick up adds reliably. Not to mention they wear cloth and can never drop Mighty Guard without popping like balloon, and Mighty Guard absolutely decimates your damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
Might as well take any of the other tanks which will definitely do more damage than a BLU in Mighty Guard, while being able to do proper tank swaps and other mechanics as needed. -
01-30-2019, 12:50 PMHasratRe: the first part of your post, as I said, not a debate I really care to tread, as there are clearly a plethora of ways of balancing and assuring and otherwise making BLU work in 50+ content.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
But this here is an admittance that BLU would need to remain limited in what it's capable of running.
Locked to 50+? How do you make that work with roulettes? Is BLU still barred from entering PotD? Can't run most of squadron content? What about guildhests?
As I said, I'm sure there's no shortage of ways to make high level BLU work. I reckon that's why there's high level spells to be gotten at all, the fun of running that content with something new and capable of improvising to some degree.
But how can you say you're making it a "full job" if you're not taking everything into consideration, from Basic Training: Enemy Parties all the way up to Bahamut and beyond.
Idk, yo. The way I see it, unless there's a way to make it work completely, it's not worth the trouble, the hassle, the stress, the drama of making it partly work. And the way it is now, I struggle to see how you balance a job that doesn't lose any skills when it syncs down.
And I'd rather not be the one to ruin a new player's experience by facerolling early dungeons and making them feel like dead weight. -
01-30-2019, 01:26 PMMartaDemireuxYou make a good point. This might fall into my first point of "Some spells will either need to be forbidden from being set, or will need to have their effect altered." 1k Needles may need to be restricted from set #6, or turned into a 1,000 potency physical attack (dealing 50% less potency for each extra enemy hit, similar to how Holy works). Higanbana is 940 without buffs so it wouldn't totally be unheard of. Paired with the long cast time as well as the Aetherflow recast styled gameplay it wouldn't be especially overpowered, I don't think; if so, I'm sure there are ways to balance it accordingly. Perhaps make it a channeled attack like MCH's Flamethrower when set in list #6, dealing up to 1,000 total potency by the time the channel is finished. That'd be kind of neat to see, actually haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
As for the amount of spells available, that could be handled by limiting the number of slots you can set spells into as you level up (which is also what FFXI did in a way) instead of by locking spell list #6 to level 50. With 24 slots you could unlock 1 slot every other level to get the full 24 available at level 45. With their unique calculation of damage based solely on INT, they could likely balance it to still deal a range of DPS in relation to other casters at 50.