Griever

Since we are getting a Gunblade job... supposedly... Can we also have Griever as a Primal?

this would have to imply that besides the odd mention of squall for spin off games, or triple triad, SE would have to acknowledge that ff8 was a thing, and if they do that they might have to make a remake...

HEY SE WHERES THE REMA- I MEAN GRIEVER FIGHT!

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

this would have to imply that besides the odd mention of squall for spin off games, or triple triad, SE would have to acknowledge that ff8 was a thing, and if they do that they might have to make a remake...

HEY SE WHERES THE REMA- I MEAN GRIEVER FIGHT!

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Ultimecia and Griever themes, go!

That game has such a wonderful, though criminally underrated, soundtrack.

I'd love to see some FF8 stuff. Would be nice to see Griever in the game!

Since we have Squall's glamour can we have Rinoa's XD

..Was gunblade actually confirmed? I personally think it's a stupid idea for a class. You have Machinist, you dont need an entire class surrounding a stupid and impractical weapon like "Gunblade". Rdm and Machinist fit in to those roles anyway, RDM beign ranged + melee and Machinist having Guns.

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Originally Posted by KaijinRhada

Ultimecia and Griever themes, go!

That game has such a wonderful, though criminally underrated, soundtrack.

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I just want The Extreme as an orchestrion roll.

Griever looks like a demon winged Ronso (or Ronso looks like a wingless fewer horned Griever, take your pick lol).

"Lion" ronso like race + Griever primal :3?

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

..Was gunblade actually confirmed? I personally think it's a stupid idea for a class. You have Machinist, you dont need an entire class surrounding a stupid and impractical weapon like "Gunblade". Rdm and Machinist fit in to those roles anyway, RDM beign ranged + melee and Machinist having Guns.

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To my knowledge it hasn't yet been 100% confirmed, but just hinted strongly by Thancred wielding a a very large and unique one in the Shadowbringers teaser, and apparently *cough cough* people have datamined references to a gunblade class already existing in the game files (although that should not be taken at face value as plenty of things are added to the game files but dummied out and never actually used - datamining especially being a big no-no as far as the ToS is concerned, so I won't say anything more on that subject).

I agree it's somewhat of a cliched class, and you're right in it being effectively redundant - there are already gunblade-like weapons in the game (Lightning's Blazefire Sabre from FFXIII is a GLA/PLD sword and many of the MCH's 'knifelock' type guns look like gunblades with a long bayonet attached to the barrel), so it's really superflorous anyway. But I guess we'll find out one way or the other in the next couple of months.

Griever would be really cool. His ultimate Shockwave Pulsar is so damn awesome, they could literally copy and paste it into this game. And Quistes Trepe, the games resident BLU (enemy skill user) and who I modeled my character after, learns it!

https://i.imgur.com/wxK9HMJ.png?1

Also making this a formal request for her hairstyle and outfit.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I agree it's somewhat of a cliched class, and you're right in it being effectively redundant - there are already gunblade-like weapons in the game (Lightning's Blazefire Sabre from FFXIII is a GLA/PLD sword and many of the MCH's 'knifelock' type guns look like gunblades with a long bayonet attached to the barrel), so it's really superflorous anyway. But I guess we'll find out one way or the other in the next couple of months.

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Its still really stupid to say why have gunblade when we have a weapon skin or a class that uses a gun with no slashing or explosive attacks from the barrel at all,
When jobs obviously have there own flare to them.

"You want gunblade lol just glamor lightnings weapon on paladin but you can't shoot or explode but its the same thing right"

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I agree it's somewhat of a cliched class, and you're right in it being effectively redundant - there are already gunblade-like weapons in the game (Lightning's Blazefire Sabre from FFXIII is a GLA/PLD sword and many of the MCH's 'knifelock' type guns look like gunblades with a long bayonet attached to the barrel), so it's really superflorous anyway. But I guess we'll find out one way or the other in the next couple of months.

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And yet we have Jobs that effectively use identical weapons (WHMs Canes and BLM Staves being virtually identical in form) and yet have vastly differing unique gameplay styles, not only in the spells being cast but also the animations of those spells.

So sure, we have a 'gunblade like' glamor options, but lets be real fair, a gun with a bayonet isn't a Gunblade. The Lightning one is probably the only real Gunblade glamor option. Just because we have glamor options that mimic another weapon type (DRK Club for example) doesn't automatically preclude them from adding a Job that uses that mimic weapon as a fullblown Job.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

And yet we have Jobs that effectively use identical weapons (WHMs Canes and BLM Staves being virtually identical in form) and yet have vastly differing unique gameplay styles, not only in the spells being cast but also the animations of those spells.

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Grimoires and Codices too.

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

..Was gunblade actually confirmed? I personally think it's a stupid idea for a class. You have Machinist, you dont need an entire class surrounding a stupid and impractical weapon like "Gunblade". Rdm and Machinist fit in to those roles anyway, RDM beign ranged + melee and Machinist having Guns.

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As a DPS, I'd agree, however it'd be a interesting and popular tank class to mix up the current selection of 'angry' and 'magic' big slasher jobs.
So yeah, this is precisely why I dont want it to be a DPS class.

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

..Was gunblade actually confirmed? I personally think it's a stupid idea for a class. You have Machinist, you dont need an entire class surrounding a stupid and impractical weapon like "Gunblade". Rdm and Machinist fit in to those roles anyway, RDM beign ranged + melee and Machinist having Guns.

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With Thancred running around with a gunblade in the trailer, it's highly assumed that it will be a class.

I want the gunblade job to be a DPS... if it is you guys can have every other job that comes out after as a tank or healer... pretty please? :)

Honestly, tho, wtf was even the deal with Griever? "That pendant that has been completely inconsequential to the game? Yeah, let's turn it into a big monster boss."

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Honestly, tho, wtf was even the deal with Griever? "That pendant that has been completely inconsequential to the game? Yeah, let's turn it into a big monster boss."

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It was the name of the Lion on Squalls Ring, etching on Squall's Gunblade, and on his Gunblade case. In the final fight Ultemicia looked into Squall's mind and made it real as her GF. Maybe she thought Squall wouldn't be able to kill something he loved or maybe she thought something from the person that beat her would be strong enough to beat them. But it looked really cool.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Honestly, tho, wtf was even the deal with Griever? "That pendant that has been completely inconsequential to the game? Yeah, let's turn it into a big monster boss."

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I agree. But if Ultimecia was Rinoa it would make sense for her to summon Squall's spirit animal and that plot point would serve the purpose of making that connection. But I won't open that can of worms here, I don't think Griever being summoned means much lol

He still looks cool though, and I wouldn't mind seeing him as a trial.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

It was the name of the Lion on Squalls Ring, etching on Squall's Gunblade, and on his Gunblade case. In the final fight Ultemicia looked into Squall's mind and made it real as her GF. Maybe she thought Squall wouldn't be able to kill something he loved or maybe she thought something from the person that beat her would be strong enough to beat them. But it looked really cool.

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It was Squalls idol, it personified strength for him, so therefore followed that in his mind it would be the most powerful creature and he'd be unable to beat it.
The symbolism is about him holding himself to an unattainably high benchmark, that he's unable to accomplish on his own.

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Originally Posted by TheHeavenAbyss

I agree. But if Ultimecia was Rinoa it would make sense for her to summon Squall's spirit animal and that plot point would serve the purpose of making that connection. But I won't open that can of worms here, I don't think Griever being summoned means much lol

He still looks cool though, and I wouldn't mind seeing him as a trial.

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The japanese script literally says she reads Squalls mind and thats how she summons Griever, absolutely no need to her to be Rinoa and cause the plot hole of her killing her younger self, while defeating the point of the core themes of the game.

Looking at pictures of Griever, it's been a while since I played FF8, he does look like a Ronso. Maybe we will get a Ronso beast tribe.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Looking at pictures of Griever, it's been a while since I played FF8, he does look like a Ronso. Maybe we will get a Ronso beast tribe.

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Would be a good avenue for a future BLU questline too.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The japanese script literally says she reads Squalls mind and thats how she summons Griever, absolutely no need to her to be Rinoa and cause the plot hole of her killing her younger self, while defeating the point of the core themes of the game.

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I didn't know about the Japanese script. I understand there is no need. But about the plot point, almost no story deals with time shenanigans that well, and it could still work with them being the same person by making Ultimecia being Rinoa from an alternate future where Squall never came back to save her from the SeeD. It doesn't have to be, of course.

I just think it would be better because ultimately, Ultimecia is not that interesting and I think that would add a layer of depth to her. And it would fit with the theme of the game if she was a Rinoa that was consumed by solitute and went mad, and also the fight against time, since they would basically be defeating the bad future by making sure the present follows a different path (and Griever as a representation of the fight of Squall against himself would still fit, even if it was summoned by evil Rinoa).

Not that I think any of this is in the game, I just think it would be a cool idea.

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Originally Posted by TheHeavenAbyss

I didn't know about the Japanese script. I understand there is no need. But about the plot point, almost no story deals with time shenanigans that well, and it could still work with them being the same person by making Ultimecia being Rinoa from an alternate future where Squall never came back to save her from the SeeD. It doesn't have to be, of course.

I just think it would be better because ultimately, Ultimecia is not that interesting and I think that would add a layer of depth to her. And it would fit with the theme of the game if she was a Rinoa that was consumed by solitute and went mad, and also the fight against time, since they would basically be defeating the bad future by making sure the present follows a different path (and Griever as a representation of the fight of Squall against himself would still fit, even if it was summoned by evil Rinoa).

Not that I think any of this is in the game, I just think it would be a cool idea.

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The story is based around a static time loop, where what happens will always happen, and what happened was alwats going to happen. Its the crux of the whole theme of 'fate' in the game, and is what makes Ultimecia a tragic villain who brought about her own demise by attempting to defy her own fate.
There are no 'alternate futures'.

It's actually one of the few types of time travel plot that's entirely internally consistent with the only paradox being the 'grandfather paradox'.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

And yet we have Jobs that effectively use identical weapons (WHMs Canes and BLM Staves being virtually identical in form) and yet have vastly differing unique gameplay styles, not only in the spells being cast but also the animations of those spells.

So sure, we have a 'gunblade like' glamor options, but lets be real fair, a gun with a bayonet isn't a Gunblade. The Lightning one is probably the only real Gunblade glamor option. Just because we have glamor options that mimic another weapon type (DRK Club for example) doesn't automatically preclude them from adding a Job that uses that mimic weapon as a fullblown Job.

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Blazefire Saber and the other XIII gunblades are also wildly different from the versions in VIII and XIV considering they're more like swords that shapeshift into SMGs than a longsword with a barrel and magazine.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

this would have to imply that besides the odd mention of squall for spin off games, or triple triad, SE would have to acknowledge that ff8 was a thing, and if they do that they might have to make a remake...

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Well Rinoa, Edea and Ultimecia made appearances in the latest Dissidia so I think SE are branching out more from just having Squall here and there throughout other titles. Perhaps the success of the VII remake could just encourage them to make one for VIII as well, time will tell...

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

..Was gunblade actually confirmed? I personally think it's a stupid idea for a class. You have Machinist, you dont need an entire class surrounding a stupid and impractical weapon like "Gunblade". Rdm and Machinist fit in to those roles anyway, RDM beign ranged + melee and Machinist having Guns.

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Confirmed? Not yet. But Yoshi P was all like "Hey guys, there's a hint at a new job in the teaser! *wink wink*". Only have to put 2 and 2 together considering Thancred was the only candidate for a job teaser in the...teaser.

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Originally Posted by TheHeavenAbyss

I just think it would be better because ultimately, Ultimecia is not that interesting and I think that would add a layer of depth to her.

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I find that villains who use possession and/or personification is difficult to pull off if it is not established early. We go a certain length of the story only to find out that the villain we've been building up to hate was actually someone/something else entirely. Imagine if Ilberd wasn't actually Ilberd after everything he did.

I find the best villains to not be innately evil, but relatable. They have an opposing PoV that makes logical sense, or driven to madness when their good deeds are punished. Gaius is a great example in FFXIV of a villain I totally respect, and I absolutely understand what drives him. My version of the WoL carries a ton of guilt being the one responsible for ending his life. Villains like Thordan and Zenos are just monsters, and are not fit to rule.

We just don't find out early enough that Ultimecia is from the future using sorceress' from the past as vessels since it is a major plot reveal, and at that point in the story there isn't a whole lot of time to learn and sympathize with her motives.

All this FF8 talk makes me so happy ahah. But yes please something more from that title would be welcome ^^

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Gaius is a great example in FFXIV of a villain I totally respect, and I absolutely understand what drives him. My version of the WoL carries a ton of guilt being the one responsible for ending his life. Villains like Thordan and Zenos are just monsters, and are not fit to rule.

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Umm...

Also I think Thordan was somewhat relatable, he at least had a valid motive and that to me puts him more in line with Gaius than Zenos.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Its still really stupid to say why have gunblade when we have a weapon skin or a class that uses a gun with no slashing or explosive attacks from the barrel at all,
When jobs obviously have there own flare to them.

"You want gunblade lol just glamor lightnings weapon on paladin but you can't shoot or explode but its the same thing right"

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The thing is that the iconic game for the gunblade, FFVIII, doesn't actually have shooting or exploding with the gunblade. If I remember correctly how it worked, it didn't fire a projectile; pulling the trigger simply triggered the "shot," which set the entire blade to reverberating, and that vibrating blade inside a target being slashed through dealt critical damage by simply ripping through the target rather than a clean cut. You didn't fire an actual bullet--there was no projectile launched at all.

In that sense, Lightning's gunblade is the most true to the idea of a "sword that shoots as well."

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Umm...

Also I think Thordan was somewhat relatable, he at least had a valid motive and that to me puts him more in line with Gaius than Zenos.

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That's cool. I mean the guy's a deceitful tyrant, racist, and megalomaniac, but if you can find something relatable about his motives your perception might be better than mine. I can even relate to Nidhogg before I can Thordan, but my views might be clouded by his treachery and life-term damage to the WoL. Like I said before, I felt really bad about how things ended with Gaius. With Thordan though, I felt nothing but justice.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

That's cool. I mean the guy's a deceitful tyrant, racist, and megalomaniac, but if you can find something relatable about his motives your perception might be better than mine. I can even relate to Nidhogg before I can Thordan, but my views might be clouded by his treachery and life-term damage to the WoL. Like I said before, I felt really bad about how things ended with Gaius. With Thordan though, I felt nothing but justice.

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Yeah. Nidhogg at least had a justifiable reason to declare war on Ishgard. His sister was murdered in cold blood. Thordan, while smart, was crazy. The Ascians played a bit of a role there, but still.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It was Squalls idol, it personified strength for him, so therefore followed that in his mind it would be the most powerful creature and he'd be unable to beat it.
The symbolism is about him holding himself to an unattainably high benchmark, that he's unable to accomplish on his own.

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Ok, 8's loopy story aside (relax, just joking at the rest of the conversation), I just didn't feel like the game did enough to establish this significance. I may have forgotten something, it's been a while, but I can really only remember one point in the game where it's seriously discussed. And even then, it still sorta falls short of establishing just how highly Squall thinks of it. "It's just a bit of jewelry that I thought looked cool, and I gave it a bit of anthropomorphization in my head as the sort of badass thing I thought it would be." It still comes off as goofy that it turned out to be a boss at the end. Maybe if we ever found some drawing Squall did of his fursona, or it came up more that he used it as a personal talisman for strength, or something.

Idk. As weird as 8 got, I was able to roll with most of it, sort kept up with everything. But for me, Griever in particular always stood out as a "Wait, what's going on, why am I fighting this?" moment.

At least it wasn't as bad as Necron in 9, tho.

Griever would have benn less goofy... if Squall drew him as his fursona...?

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

this would have to imply that besides the odd mention of squall for spin off games, or triple triad, SE would have to acknowledge that ff8 was a thing, and if they do that they might have to make a remake...

HEY SE WHERES THE REMA- I MEAN GRIEVER FIGHT!

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They already HDing a lot of things in FF Mobius FF8 event.... They even got Squall to do the Balamb Garden salute...
https://i.imgur.com/GTBOm6v.png

Even Balamb Garden been HDed in FFMobius FF8 event with Classic FF8 Squall....
https://i.imgur.com/ypbBFWx.png?1

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

..Was gunblade actually confirmed? I personally think it's a stupid idea for a class. You have Machinist, you dont need an entire class surrounding a stupid and impractical weapon like "Gunblade". Rdm and Machinist fit in to those roles anyway, RDM beign ranged + melee and Machinist having Guns.

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All of the Garleans we've seen have some sort of gunblade so far, including Zenos (his sheath for the 3 swords very much looks like a gatling or cannon).

Also, that's not how gunblades were used in FF8 - you used it as a melee weapon, timed trigger-pulls did extra damage. Also, gunblades are a real thing in history.

I have a hard time not calling this a gunblade, though (taken at 2:04 of the trailer).
https://i.gyazo.com/f5da61b6d9d0f817...4d0226c459.jpg

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

All of the Garleans we've seen have some sort of gunblade so far, including Zenos (his sheath for the 3 swords very much looks like a gatling or cannon).

Also, that's not how gunblades were used in FF8 - you used it as a melee weapon, timed trigger-pulls did extra damage. Also, gunblades are a real thing in history.

I have a hard time not calling this a gunblade, though (taken at 2:04 of the trailer).
https://i.gyazo.com/f5da61b6d9d0f817...4d0226c459.jpg

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It has a revolver chamber, a sword grip, and a trigger. If you go forward a few seconds, you can see that it has a barrel mimicking the Garlean standard issue gunblades- only on one side, and notably shorter than the blade. We've also only seen two types of gunblade in XIV, those being the standard issue model that Heirsbane uses(Model IX in the JP version, I think?) and the custom one Regula had. The other hybrid weapons we've seen have been tonfas, shields, and a lance.

Zenos strictly uses katanas after having gained an appreciation of them during his subjugation of Doma. We still don't know what the weird drum sheathe does if it does anything at all. The Ala Mhigo fight makes it seem like it just charges the holstered swords with aether.

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Originally Posted by Zeich

The thing is that the iconic game for the gunblade, FFVIII, doesn't actually have shooting or exploding with the gunblade. If I remember correctly how it worked, it didn't fire a projectile; pulling the trigger simply triggered the "shot," which set the entire blade to reverberating, and that vibrating blade inside a target being slashed through dealt critical damage by simply ripping through the target rather than a clean cut. You didn't fire an actual bullet--there was no projectile launched at all.

In that sense, Lightning's gunblade is the most true to the idea of a "sword that shoots as well."

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Well if you take a look at Squall in Dissidia he does a lot of explosion/blast effects do come from the Gunblade with most of his attacks.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Griever would have benn less goofy... if Squall drew him as his fursona...?

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C'mon, laff a little.

No, but really, imagine how good the foreshadowing could've been if there were pictures of Griever at the orphanage. An actual indication that this is an identity that Squall has been idolizing since childhood. Now that could've had some actual impact being called out as a boss.