My Catharsis in FFXIV

This video of 6 minutes and 30 seconds explained just about everything I've experienced from others in multiplayer games for years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmEa-YAcFk8

I just wanted to play the game and have fun, not aim to be top in damage meters and be criticized when I don't push to squeeze out every bit of damage I can do. I just wanted to do stuff, but there was no way that I could in an environment full of people that demanded too much from me. Now that I have moved to a Japanese server, I don't have that problem anymore because the players are more understanding, not all of them, but there are far more of those who are concerned about others than not. In fact, now I have the problem of the opposite, there's too many things to do and not enough time to do them all, and I end up feeling overwhelmed if I don't focus on them one at a time.

Just lol if you think the Japanese players are judging you any less than your contemporaries.

1) People rarely critize anyone, let alone a tank, for not playing optimal in any content beside Savage/Ultimate (...and maaaybe the latest EX-Primal). You can play the better part of the game without having to squeeze out every last bit of damage.

2) For Savage-content: Obviously, people will expect you to do your best, push yourself and improve - all of those are things you should actually want for yourself in the first place. I dont expect people to be perfect, but I expect them to strife for perfection if they want to participate in true endgame-content. And I expect them to be competent on their job and its basic in all the content.

3) The best solution to escape the enviroment of people expecting "to much" would be to find a group of friends to enjoy the game with - people who share similar goals and mindsets. Who'd rather have fun raiding - and not so much with clearing the top tier within the first week. But thats only my humble opinion.

4) You'll soon find that while the japanese might not call you out to your face, you'll run into a different kind of trouble, specially with your mindset. From all that I've heard about japanese servers and their culture, with your attitude of "I dont wanna give my best and/or improve" you wont last long. Because they expect that as much as the western servers do. They might seem more patient, but thats most likely because the majority of them has the mindset of "If I'm not good enough to do this content, I wont hold my team back by joining in the first place."

If the japanese servers are more to your taste - grats! Its great that you've found your place within Eorzea, but I cant help to point out that regardless of the server you're playing on you should absolutly try your best, squeeze out that extra bit of damage, try to improve yourself, your gameplay, your understanding of your job and the content you're taking it to.
Its a matter of respect - on both sides.
Personally, I dont mind new people or people who are still learning - but I mind people who refuse to do that. I'm not saying that thats the case with you, but your OP sounds very much like you've given up to an extend with improving yourself and trying to meet the "demands" of the people you met through DF. And quite frankly: That baffles me a bit... because usually those demands arent high. Usually people dont care what the rest of their group does in a normal dungeon. As long as some basic standards are met. Just wanting to do stuff doesnt work when you're playing with other people - you also need to do that stuff right and to an extend you need to know how to do that right before hand. If you end up with "toxic groups" or groups demanding "to much", you might need to take a look at your job and your skills again and spend some time learning those before you jump back into group-content - regardless of your server, its the right thing to do: Going into content prepared. And if you dont feel you are yet - or even more so: if you're clearly not - then you should improve before you join a group, specially a group of strangers.

...also... can I ask why you put your info on a specific magic-crystal-ball-website that may or may not tell people how well you are performing on your Lodestone-page for everyone to see if you're feeling judged by people? Is this just some trolling or clickbait for that video?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

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I was just going to agree to this whole post and drop a like, as it is full of truth and well written.
But this last bit at the end made it pure gold.

This isn't a single player game

I wish I could bring myself to have fun on other people's expense as well.

You are either trolling or extremely lazy.

Well this guy gonna go around the JP server blacklists for groups. Yes they have those, unlike NA/EU.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

4) You'll soon find that while the japanese might not call you out to your face, you'll run into a different kind of trouble, specially with your mindset. From all that I've heard about japanese servers and their culture, with your attitude of "I dont wanna give my best and/or improve" you wont last long. Because they expect that as much as the western servers do. They might seem more patient, but thats most likely because the majority of them has the mindset of "If I'm not good enough to do this content, I wont hold my team back by joining in the first place."

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Another thing to consider when you’re on a JP server: you had better learn their language or have a basic understanding of it if you are looking to join learning/practice groups for higher-level content (Extremes or Savages), because a lot of JP groups do not want players in them that do not speak their language. “JP Only” is fairly prevalent in parties on the JP Data Centers from what I understand.

While their culture may be more “inclusive”, they are group oriented—they value teamwork. If you aren’t going to be a team player — i.e., if you are just going to skate along doing the bare minimum and not try to perform your job/role to an adequate standard for the content you are in — they will silently remove you. Unlike NA/EU, they have websites with player names for the sole purpose of blacklisting them.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

While their culture may be more “inclusive”

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There are many wonderful things about the Japanese culture - IRL and online.
'Inclusive' is not something that would be top of my list of adjectives where non-Japanese (or at the very least having a very workable knowledge of the language) are concerned.

As you imply - the if the OP is struggling to acclimate their native server - I can't see how they will fair any better on a JP one - if tackling any sort organized group content.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

There are many wonderful things about the Japanese culture - IRL and online.
'Inclusive' is not something that would be top of my list of adjectives where non-Japanese (or at the very least having a very workable knowledge of the language) are concerned.

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Perhaps "inclusive" is the incorrect word, but they are far more group-oriented compared to western cultures that focus more on individualism. That's what I was getting at; I just chose the wrong word.

OP has already shown they aren't the greatest of team players (at least, that was the impression I got from their opening statement). They won't make it very far if they start venturing into higher end content on the JP data centers more frequently (they've already done a few fights, as a handy dandy website told me). JP may be externally more patient than some NA/EU players, in that they may not directly call someone out on poor performance, but they can be just as "elitist" as the western players OP is "running from".

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Perhaps "inclusive" is the incorrect word, but they are far more group-oriented compared to western cultures that focus more on individualism. That's what I was getting at; I just chose the wrong word.

OP has already shown they aren't the greatest of team players (at least, that was the impression I got from their opening statement). They won't make it very far if they start venturing into higher end content on the JP data centers more frequently (they've already done a few fights, as a handy dandy website told me). JP may be externally more patient than some NA/EU players, in that they may not directly call someone out on poor performance, but they can be just as "elitist" as the western players OP is "running from".

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Absolutely agree :)

When u join in high-end contents like the savage raids, there will always be a minimum expectation for performance that is required of the content. While in the JP data centers they can be less vocal (well E players in there are much more direct lol) about under-performing players, they can-and-will voice out or even take action if the "exceptional" case becomes "truly exceptional" and might even affect the next non-j player that joins the party (got removed from a o11s party months back, can't remember whether it was ATC or farm, because the party leader had trouble with an E player the previous try).

That said, friendly players that help others are everywhere; had a grp of E players that took turns to switch to a tank to take aggro when BLU-ing for Final String, and a grp of J players that carried my fat butt 2 more extra rounds in Haukke Manor despite me being prepared to make another party so that I dun waste their time.

This is why I could never be a mentor. I don't have the patience to put up with people who have such a idgaf mentality and literally snap at you like you insulted their mother for suggesting a better way to play no matter how nice you tell them or how awful they play. At the end of the day WE and up having to pull their useless weight through the entirety of the game because it's not like there are any WALLS that would bar such poor play and force them to reconsider or anything. Even if this is a bait post these people do exist and likely make up a significant chunk of the community and that's absurd and disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

I just wanted to play the game and have fun, not aim to be top in damage meters and be criticized when I don't push to squeeze out every bit of damage I can do. I just wanted to do stuff, but there was no way that I could in an environment full of people that demanded too much from me.

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I have to ask, what content do you spend the most time doing? Because if you want to play with people that don't expect anything from others, stick to dungeons and 24 mans and trials roulettes.

what exactly is "demanding too much"? have you equated what exactly people are asking you to do?

I'm speaking from a relatable perspective because I remember being a lvl60 DRG during Heavensward and not actually knowing how my buffs worked and it took a while to actually learn wtf I was doing. That was a long time ago and I've learned a lot since then, but even recently when I tried joining Savage parties, I REFUSED to use potions because I thought it was a waste (and I'm poor). So I knew exactly what people were asking me to do, and I refused to care until they convinced me of the benefits (its only relevant in savage content).

this is just an example of my own bc I dont really see much context in your post. Theres nothing wrong with not being optimal in casual content (dungeons, trials, 24mans) because its designed to allow such. But it's a different story if you're trying to clear Extreme primals and savage content where teamwork and DPS actually matter.


edit: I just watched the catharsis video as I didnt have time earlier. When did Dan stop doing Extra Credits?!

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Just lol if you think the Japanese players are judging you any less than your contemporaries.

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Some do for sure, but more often than not they just want to have fun and don't mind if anyone makes a few mistakes. They're quite understanding when someone is inexperienced.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

1) People rarely critize anyone, let alone a tank, for not playing optimal in any content beside Savage/Ultimate (...and maaaybe the latest EX-Primal). You can play the better part of the game without having to squeeze out every last bit of damage.

2) For Savage-content: Obviously, people will expect you to do your best, push yourself and improve - all of those are things you should actually want for yourself in the first place. I dont expect people to be perfect, but I expect them to strife for perfection if they want to participate in true endgame-content. And I expect them to be competent on their job and its basic in all the content.

3) The best solution to escape the enviroment of people expecting "to much" would be to find a group of friends to enjoy the game with - people who share similar goals and mindsets. Who'd rather have fun raiding - and not so much with clearing the top tier within the first week. But thats only my humble opinion.

4) You'll soon find that while the japanese might not call you out to your face, you'll run into a different kind of trouble, specially with your mindset. From all that I've heard about japanese servers and their culture, with your attitude of "I dont wanna give my best and/or improve" you wont last long. Because they expect that as much as the western servers do. They might seem more patient, but thats most likely because the majority of them has the mindset of "If I'm not good enough to do this content, I wont hold my team back by joining in the first place."

If the japanese servers are more to your taste - grats! Its great that you've found your place within Eorzea, but I cant help to point out that regardless of the server you're playing on you should absolutly try your best, squeeze out that extra bit of damage, try to improve yourself, your gameplay, your understanding of your job and the content you're taking it to.
Its a matter of respect - on both sides.
Personally, I dont mind new people or people who are still learning - but I mind people who refuse to do that. I'm not saying that thats the case with you, but your OP sounds very much like you've given up to an extend with improving yourself and trying to meet the "demands" of the people you met through DF. And quite frankly: That baffles me a bit... because usually those demands arent high. Usually people dont care what the rest of their group does in a normal dungeon. As long as some basic standards are met. Just wanting to do stuff doesnt work when you're playing with other people - you also need to do that stuff right and to an extend you need to know how to do that right before hand. If you end up with "toxic groups" or groups demanding "to much", you might need to take a look at your job and your skills again and spend some time learning those before you jump back into group-content - regardless of your server, its the right thing to do: Going into content prepared. And if you dont feel you are yet - or even more so: if you're clearly not - then you should improve before you join a group, specially a group of strangers.

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Let me give an example of what I was referring to.
During Heavensward on the Gilgamesh server, I decided to finally try out raiding and take on Alexander, so I joined a static (I was a monk at the time). When we got to Cruise Chaser, we had more trouble than the other 2 bosses. I was doing all that I can to remember the mechanics and what to do to counter them, but I couldn't remember the exact rotations and timings for what mechanics were coming and when, so I made the decision of not using Shoulder Tackle for when I needed to get away from the boss, I can charge back in immediately when it's safe, my damage was great without it anyway, I made sure to not die as much as possible and follow the strategies as best as I could. The result was as we progressed; I died the least amount of times and countered the mechanics the most when doing good damage. When we finally beat the boss, they decided to have a meeting to discuss on how to deal with that boss before moving on to Alexander. Their strategy was to squeeze out as much damage as possible (I wanted to tell them that dying less would lead to more damage, but I decided to keep that to myself). When they got to me, they wanted me to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown no matter what, I told them no because I wanted to stay on the boss and I haven't gotten down its rotation just yet for me to pull off that kind of min-maxing, 100 potency every 30 seconds would not be missed. So they kicked me from the static. Not because I performed poorly, but because I didn't want to completely maximize my damage with such desperate clawing to scrape up a minuscule damage increase. That was not going to change the result of the entire fight. That's what's I'm talking about when I spoke of criticism because I didn't squeeze out every bit of damage.

When it was that I talked with Japanese raiders about my scenarios like the one I mentioned, they all pretty much had the same response: They don't care. As long as you're doing all that you can to win and not die, they're fine with whatever play-style that you want. Seriously, I've encountered so many ninjas that use Doton on single targets for all levels of content, they do not care. Almost everyone just keeps to themselves, as long as you're polite, say the usual greetings and parting words when in a group (よろしくお願いします 'Yoroshikuonegaishimasu' at the start and お疲れさまでした "Otsukaresamadeshita" at the end) and not be a douche, you'll be fine. They only really care about communication in difficult content, some would rather not have to deal with non-Japanese speakers, but I've also encountered those that we really understanding and tried their best to speak what little English they knew. I've been a mediator many times to help with that lack of communication, but it's been difficult for me as well because I am only able to speak and read so little of it. There are many terms that are different than what English players use (e.g., what we call "savage", they call it 零式 "Reishiki", I can't read it at all, and the translators call it "Zero-Type" or "Zero-Formula" when I'm sure is incorrect, and there's so many shortened terms that they use which I still don't understand them, it's still rough). They're not really spiteful as they are disappointed when you're doing poorly, and you have to be doing really bad for them to say anything, more often than not it's just responses like, "Eh, you're new, you'll get the hang of it in time." with the occasional "Let's have fun!" and "Do your best!" sprinkled in now and then. There are some Japanese min-maxers, but they don't push their advice onto anyone, however, they are ready and more than happy to give advice when you ask for it. It's a different culture with different upbringings and customs, so they think and act different in many situations. They're not as spiteful as others would have you believe.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...also... can I ask why you put your info on a specific magic-crystal-ball-website that may or may not tell people how well you are performing on your Lodestone-page for everyone to see if you're feeling judged by people? Is this just some trolling or clickbait for that video?

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Huh? Magic-crystal-ball-website? What are you talking about? The only link on my forum profile page is to my YouTube channel (which I should change because I'm not uploading anything. I'll set it to my twitter for now), and my lodestone profile has that code that FFLogs wanted me to put on it, which was for those Alexander raid runs. It no longer matters, the Japanese players don't really use it. I think that they use something else to check performance, but's it's used more for a personal performance analysis rather than analyzing others.

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

When we finally beat the boss, they decided to have a meeting to discuss on how to deal with that boss before moving on to Alexander. Their strategy was to squeeze out as much damage as possible (I wanted to tell them that dying less would lead to more damage, but I decided to keep that to myself). When they got to me, they wanted me to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown no matter what, I told them no because I wanted to stay on the boss and I haven't gotten down its rotation just yet for me to pull off that kind of min-maxing, 100 potency every 30 seconds would not be missed. So they kicked me from the static. Not because I performed poorly, but because I didn't want to completely maximize my damage with such desperate clawing to scrape up a minuscule damage increase. That was not going to change the result of the entire fight. That's what's I'm talking about when I spoke of criticism because I didn't squeeze out every bit of damage.

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They kicked you because they wanted to optimize, and you weren’t willing to do that. Any static wanting to optimize is within their rights to kick a member who refuses to optimize.

When the goals of members of a static are different, there will always be contention. They wanted to squeeze out as much damage as possible; you wanted to play it safe. That didn’t line up with what they wanted. 100 potency adds up over time, by the way—it’s one thing to hold the ability for a few seconds for a well-timed dashback, but if you continuously hold it over the course of a fight to the point that you are losing multiple casts of it, that’s you throwing away damage for literally no reason. For example, 5 missed casts is 500 potency—already stronger than Tornado Kick, which was MNK’s most potent ability back in HW.

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

When it was that I talked with Japanese raiders about my scenarios like the one I talked about, they all pretty much had the same response: They don't care. As long as you're doing all that you can to win and not die, they're fine with whatever play-style that you want.

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Not if you joined a hardcore group on JP. If they want to optimize and you do not, they will not take you. They will kick you. A group that doesn’t want to optimize won’t care, but there are a multitude of groups on JP that do want to optimize and min-max. Don’t join groups that want things different from what you want.

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

Huh? Magic-crystal-ball-website? What are you talking about? The only site on my forum profile page is to my YouTube channel (which I should change because I'm not uploading anything. I'll set it to my twitter for now), and my lodestone profile has that code that FFLogs wanted me to put on it, which was for those Alexander raid runs. It no longer matters, the Japanese players don't really use it. I think that they use something else to check performance, but's it's used more for a personal performance analysis rather than analyzing others.

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If you think JP players don’t use a certain tool and a certain website, you are mistaken.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

I have to ask, what content do you spend the most time doing? Because if you want to play with people that don't expect anything from others, stick to dungeons and 24 mans and trials roulettes.

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I do whatever I feel like doing and have the time for. Pugging is far more popular on Japanese servers, so it's just setting up Party Finders for anything, however, PvP is super difficult to start simply because no one's doing them. They just do it to get the mounts and then move on when they get it, so if you're not with the crowd, tough nuggets! Wait for the next one. Right now I'm aiming for the extreme mounts, but that Omega mount is looking very enticing.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

what exactly is "demanding too much"? have you equated what exactly people are asking you to do?

I'm speaking from a relatable perspective because I remember being a lvl60 DRG during Heavensward and not actually knowing how my buffs worked and it took a while to actually learn wtf I was doing. That was a long time ago and I've learned a lot since then, but even recently when I tried joining Savage parties, I REFUSED to use potions because I thought it was a waste (and I'm poor). So I knew exactly what people were asking me to do, and I refused to care until they convinced me of the benefits (its only relevant in savage content).

this is just an example of my own bc I dont really see much context in your post. Theres nothing wrong with not being optimal in casual content (dungeons, trials, 24mans) because its designed to allow such. But it's a different story if you're trying to clear Extreme primals and savage content where teamwork and DPS actually matter.

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I will never forget the time I was kicked out of my first static because I refused to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown and save it for quick returns. My damage was fine, made the fewest mistakes that lead to wipes, wasn't rude or anything of the sort (barely spoke at all), but got kicked for that crap. I neither need nor want those kinds of unnecessary demands and expectations ruining my fun time, no one does. We spend money every month to play a game, why make such unnecessary demands for such a pitiful amount of damage when dying less results in so much more damage?

Also funnily enough, I'm usually poor as well, but food and potions are much cheaper on Japanese servers that I can afford them, however the Japanese players aren't going to scorn you for not using them as many of them don't use them either, so they're seen as a bonus rather than a requirement.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

edit: I just watched the catharsis video as I didnt have time earlier. When did Dan stop doing Extra Credits?!

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A few months ago. Be sure to follow him on Twitter if you want to keep up with what and how he's doing.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

They kicked you because they wanted to optimize, and you weren’t willing to do that. Any static wanting to optimize is within their rights to kick a member who refuses to optimize.

When the goals of members of a static are different, there will always be contention. They wanted to squeeze out as much damage as possible; you wanted to play it safe. That didn’t line up with what they wanted. 100 potency adds up over time, by the way—it’s one thing to hold the ability for a few seconds for a well-timed dashback, but if you continuously hold it over the course of a fight to the point that you are losing multiple casts of it, that’s you throwing away damage for literally no reason. For example, 5 missed casts is 500 potency—already stronger than Tornado Kick, which was MNK’s most potent ability back in HW.

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Yup, they wanted maximized damage, I just wanted to win. Which is funny, because when we were learning the fights, they focused on damage over mechanics, which lead to them dying more and, ironically, less damage done overall.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Not if you joined a hardcore group on JP. If they want to optimize and you do not, they will not take you. They will kick you. A group that doesn’t want to optimize won’t care, but there are a multitude of groups on JP that do want to optimize and min-max. Don’t join groups that want things different from what you want.

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It's not like I want to join hardcore groups. Luckily there are far, far more mid-core players that see the same way I do, "Fight to win, but have fun and don't stress over it." It's far more difficult to find and join hardcore Japanese players than it is to just jump in a practice, clear or farm run, or even just use the Duty Finder (Not for savage though, Party Finders for those).

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If you think JP players don’t use a certain tool and a certain website, you are mistaken.

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You quoted me saying that they don't use FFlogs so much but something else instead and why they use it, then respond to that quote as if I said that they don't use any logs of some type at all... What are you even doing?

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

Yup, they wanted maximized damage, I just wanted to win. Which is funny, because when we were learning the fights, they focused on damage over mechanics, which lead to them dying more and, ironically, less damage done overall.

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It's one thing to not focus on optimization as much when you're trying to get that first clear. But afterwards, they clearly stated what they wanted to do, while you wanted to continue this "playing it safe" mentality. That directly contradicted with their new goals, so they removed you to find someone better suited for the group. There is nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make them "wrong".

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

You quoted me saying that they don't use FFlogs so much but something else instead, then respond to that quote as if I said that they don't use any logs of some type at all... What are you even doing?

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Correcting you. You literally said that they "don't really use FFLogs", but they do.

FFLogs is the only "leaderboard" so to speak for this game; same with ACT. And they use them both. You can see them using their magical crystal ball just by watching JP streamers. You insinuating that they don't use it that much is incorrect. You insinuating they use something else is incorrect.

Do you have proof that they utilize other programs? Because the leaderboards on FFLogs insinuate that they're still fairly prevalent on there.

Pretty sure that video has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about. Still, to say that NA as a whole is unwelcome because of the little history you have is ludicrous. Gilgamesh at the time had a lot of players that would never agree to your way of playing whatsoever. Unless someone has personal history that speaks out in this thread, there is little to go by but your word, and with you only doing primals, there isn't anything to say one way or the other. There's a good reason a lot of the players I know are Gilgamesh Evacuees during ARR/Heavensward, so I can see why you'd just blast a server, but not an entire region.

Still, if you like it in JP servers, then you do you.

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Originally Posted by RenAshdoll

When u join in high-end contents like the savage raids, there will always be a minimum expectation for performance that is required of the content. While in the JP data centers they can be less vocal (well E players in there are much more direct lol) about under-performing players, they can-and-will voice out or even take action if the "exceptional" case becomes "truly exceptional" and might even affect the next non-j player that joins the party (got removed from a o11s party months back, can't remember whether it was ATC or farm, because the party leader had trouble with an E player the previous try).

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The problem was that their minimum expectations was also the maximum expectations, which was pointless because everyone was still learning the fight. Why? Aiming to learn the mechanics first and focus on maximizing damage later works so much efficiently. I know a little Japanese, so that helped me from sharing the same fate more often. It happens, but I find more people that are willing to try to talk than those that are not. (Hmm, maybe I should share those stories).

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Originally Posted by RenAshdoll

That said, friendly players that help others are everywhere; had a grp of E players that took turns to switch to a tank to take aggro when BLU-ing for Final String, and a grp of J players that carried my fat butt 2 more extra rounds in Haukke Manor despite me being prepared to make another party so that I dun waste their time.

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Yup! I never said that there weren't friendly players everywhere, there are. I just find more demanding english players than helpful ones. And that sounded like fun, I soloed getting Final Sting, but for the blue spells from dungeons, what the Japanese players do is powerlevel one another to 50, then work to get spells, so for Haukke Manor it was just a bunch of high level BLUs unsynced nuking the place, where we learned that Self-Destruct was very useful there. Didn't learn Level-5 Death? Blow ourselves up and start the boss fight over. Can you imagine a bunch of Blue Mages spitting fish at an ahriman over and over to chip its HP without killing it? I don't have to imagine it, I just get to laugh at the sight.

Here's the difference between the NA/EU servers and the JP servers:

If you are doing poorly on a NA or EU, 9/10 times the people will explicitly at least have the courtesy of letting you know, it may not always be honey coated words of encouragement and friendliness, but at least they'll let you know what you're doing wrong.

If you are doing poorly on a JP server, they'll just carry you because the JP mindset is to not burden their fellow team members with unnecessary conflict during a raid and damage the morale since when one person fails, they all fail. However, they'll more or less blacklist you right after from fellow parties for the future, therefore, you've learned nothing about being a better team player and in fact, made yourself out to look like a leech on their society.

Quiet people are the ones that you need to watch out for. Politeness doesn't always mean that they enjoy helping or doing it.

I play on a Japanese server, and while I don't raid myself, I've only heard my friends talk about using FFlogs - no alternatives.

My understanding is also that (stereotypically on both sides, perhaps) Japanese players tend to dislike English players because they tend to not have the same "team-minded" culture that they expect. I hear about it playing out both ways - people getting kicked from PF groups because they speak English, and English players "sneaking into" groups that specifically requested Japanese players only - and no doubt reinforcing the "rude" impression of English players when they get caught out for doing so.


It's also just a general culture that there isn't much conversation during dungeon runs, besides a greeting and farewell. It happens occasionally but not often, and then there's the language barrier to contend with. Most times if I try to talk to other players they don't understand me anyway, so a lot of the time I don't even try now.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

Pretty sure that video has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about. Still, to say that NA as a whole is unwelcome because of the little history you have is ludicrous. Gilgamesh at the time had a lot of players that would never agree to your way of playing whatsoever. Unless someone has personal history that speaks out in this thread, there is little to go by but your word, and with you only doing primals, there isn't anything to say one way or the other. There's a good reason a lot of the players I know are Gilgamesh Evacuees during ARR/Heavensward, so I can see why you'd just blast a server, but not an entire region.

Still, if you like it in JP servers, then you do you.

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In the video, there a part where he talks about difficulties in games making the negative emotions that you accumulated from real life worse when it should be a release valve. Events that prevent the player from progressing in the game. What I did was state an event where that exact scenario happened to me, the pressure effected me in real life. Playing in JP servers was the release valve that I needed. It happened in Heavensward, so it was a good while ago. Hoped that you liked the video though, it was more about sharing it rather than my story.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I play on a Japanese server, and while I don't raid myself, I've only heard my friends talk about using FFlogs - no alternatives.

My understanding is also that (stereotypically on both sides, perhaps) Japanese players tend to dislike English players because they tend to not have the same "team-minded" culture that they expect. I hear about it playing out both ways - people getting kicked from PF groups because they speak English, and English players "sneaking into" groups that specifically requested Japanese players only - and no doubt reinforcing the "rude" impression of English players when they get caught out for doing so.


It's also just a general culture that there isn't much conversation during dungeon runs, besides a greeting and farewell. It happens occasionally but not often, and then there's the language barrier to contend with. Most times if I try to talk to other players they don't understand me anyway, so a lot of the time I don't even try now.

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I can definitely see that happening, reminds me of the old saying, "When in Rome, do what the Romans do". Luckily I know a little Japanese, and use a translator, so I don't get kicked out so much, but it happens now and again, not a lot though. And yup the greetings and farewell is mostly all that is said, which is more than I can say for the years I spent in parties with people that said absolutely nothing from start to finish.

But in any case, the whole point of all of that is to share the video and tell what prevented the game that I played (this one) from being my release valve and how it became one again.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It's one thing to not focus on optimization as much when you're trying to get that first clear. But afterwards, they clearly stated what they wanted to do, while you wanted to continue this "playing it safe" mentality. That directly contradicted with their new goals, so they removed you to find someone better suited for the group. There is nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make them "wrong".

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Agreed, that is what happened. I didn't say that they were wrong, but I did insinuate that it was pointless. That lead to unnecessary stress in the game that I didn't want.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Correcting you. You literally said that they "don't really use FFLogs", but they do.

FFLogs is the only "leaderboard" so to speak for this game; same with ACT. And they use them both. You can see them using their magical crystal ball just by watching JP streamers. You insinuating that they don't use it that much is incorrect. You insinuating they use something else is incorrect.

Do you have proof that they utilize other programs? Because the leaderboards on FFLogs insinuate that they're still fairly prevalent on there.

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Hmm, I see the problem here, my apologies, I should have worded it better. My words were "It no longer matters, the Japanese players don't really use it." What I meant to say was that they don't use it to judge other players, it's not a requirement in order to raid, which was what I had to do to start raiding for Alexander, so that code on my lodestone now has no purpose. I also said, "I think that they use something else to check performance" I was sent a link to information from an O7S fight, I didn't pay much attention to it because my group was talking about how their performances were while using that info, but I was not sure what it was and I didn't ask about it, so I don't know what it was. I hope it clears up that misunderstanding.

Really, all I wanted to do was share the video and an event in game that became the blockage which resulted in making the stress that I had built up worse rather than a release valve for that pent-up stress.

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

I will never forget the time I was kicked out of my first static because I refused to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown and save it for quick returns. My damage was fine, made the fewest mistakes that lead to wipes, wasn't rude or anything of the sort (barely spoke at all), but got kicked for that crap. I neither need nor want those kinds of unnecessary demands and expectations ruining my fun time, no one does. We spend money every month to play a game, why make such unnecessary demands for such a pitiful amount of damage when dying less results in so much more damage?

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Thanks for the context, I sympathize a lot more with the post now.

That just sounds to me like a disorganized static. In my only successful static, optimizing DPS was the goal from the very first pull. We all agreed that the learning phase was meant to push yourself to the brink of dying trying to figure out the best way to keep our numbers up, so a few deaths trying to keep uptime was generally accepted and okay. Now when we all knew the fight, it was time to sort of balance out our greediness and mechanic knowledge. For clears, we wanted 0 deaths. But at that point, we pretty much knew how to optimize our dps while staying alive. Im probably spoiled but our communication was constant and we all worked together to give each other tips when we died or needed to squeeze more dps.

examples were like, my healer telling me to eat a certain AoE, because the damage was going to be healed with the regen anyway, to keep uptime.

and the final part about our "fun time being ruined", I think you probably made the right call as you have to resolve that for yourself and only yourself. We all have to stop and ask ourselves "why are we putting ourselves through all this stress? is it because im having fun?" If you're answer was to remove yourself from the demands of others, thats what you gotta do.

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

Let me give an example of what I was referring to.
During Heavensward on the Gilgamesh server, I decided to finally try out raiding and take on Alexander, so I joined a static (I was a monk at the time). When we got to Cruise Chaser, we had more trouble than the other 2 bosses. I was doing all that I can to remember the mechanics and what to do to counter them, but I couldn't remember the exact rotations and timings for what mechanics were coming and when, so I made the decision of not using Shoulder Tackle for when I needed to get away from the boss, I can charge back in immediately when it's safe, my damage was great without it anyway, I made sure to not die as much as possible and follow the strategies as best as I could. The result was as we progressed; I died the least amount of times and countered the mechanics the most when doing good damage. When we finally beat the boss, they decided to have a meeting to discuss on how to deal with that boss before moving on to Alexander. Their strategy was to squeeze out as much damage as possible (I wanted to tell them that dying less would lead to more damage, but I decided to keep that to myself). When they got to me, they wanted me to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown no matter what, I told them no because I wanted to stay on the boss and I haven't gotten down its rotation just yet for me to pull off that kind of min-maxing, 100 potency every 30 seconds would not be missed. So they kicked me from the static. Not because I performed poorly, but because I didn't want to completely maximize my damage with such desperate clawing to scrape up a minuscule damage increase. That was not going to change the result of the entire fight. That's what's I'm talking about when I spoke of criticism because I didn't squeeze out every bit of damage.

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Since other people have adressed the JP-server-thing already, I'd like to focus on your experience on Gilgamesh here - mainly to note a few things (some that might have been covered already aswell):

1) While I dont wanna say that you're doing excatly that, this has a bit of a generalisation-vibe to it: One (or maybe even just a couple more) isolated incident that made you brought down judgement on the whole western servers - dont get me wrong, I'm gald for you that you found your place on a japanese one, but basically saying "I could have never found such a friendly envoriment on a NA/EU server!" is just plain wrong.

2) Personally I would have removed you from that static aswell - but not because of your actual action of not squeezing out every last bit of damage you could but because of your attitude behind it, which is quite honestly a pretty arrogant one.
"I dont need to improve anymore" - and even more "I'm better than you guys, dont tell ME to improve". Both arent things that I'd want from any member in my very casual, laid-back and friendly static.
As I said in my first post: You should always try to improve - you had room for improvment there and as far as I can gather from your post, so did the rest of the static (if you went over everyone) and since they stayed on, they probably took that advice to heart and were willing to improve.
Playing things safe is great for learning fights - but the desire to optimise afterwards is a keypoint for many groups aswell. Sorry if your personal desire clashed with the legit desire of the majority of that group here.
I'd also like to note here that you said yourself that you were using shoulder tackle because you didnt know the rotation perfectly - your expressed desire to not change your use of shoulder tackle also showed that you werent actually willing to bother learning the content "properly" - which, again, is not an attitude I'd like in a group.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if the real reason you got removed from that group wasnt 100 potency every 30 seconds but your attitude of "Nope, I'm not gonna improve and you know why? Because I'm already better than all of you!" (paraphrasing)
You couldnt even be bothered to learn when you can use shoulder tackle safely - I dont recall A11S to well, but I'm pretty sure you didnt had to close a gap every 30 seconds and lost out on shoulder tackles that could have been used while still functioning as gap-closer.

At the end of the day... maybe a japanese server with silent blacklisting and less open critisim is the right place for someone who acvtively chooses not to improve anymore because they (wrongfully, if you ask me) feel that they've done enough already. I cant imagine such an attitude working anywhere in the world - and specially not in a culture thats focussed on team-work and on everyone doing their best. Because you dont - or at least didnt. You could improve, you knew how, yet you choose not to - and defend it with "There are people who are worse than me!"

I'm a fairly new player but I've honestly found people in this game to be generally helpful to those trying to learn. I've had zero negative interactions with other players but I'm sure this could change once I get into end game content.


I usually read up on a new duty before entering, learned my class abilities and haven't had any complaints so far. I don't think in the average group anyone expects people to be doing more than getting through the content without trouble/wiping. The only time I've seen people become upset while playing is when people join a duty or raid blindly and expect to be carried.

If someone offers me advice or constructive criticism in game I generally take it in and use the feedback to get better. When you're grouping with others your willingness to be a team player does affect everyone else in the group. So if a static wanted to kick you for actively refusing to learn mechanics and maximize dps that seems fair.

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Originally Posted by Luthiene

If someone offers me advice or constructive criticism in game I generally take it in and use the feedback to get better. When you're grouping with others your willingness to be a team player does affect everyone else in the group. So if a static wanted to kick you for actively refusing to learn mechanics and maximize dps that seems fair.

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See, this is a good and healthy attitude! :)
Keep that up and you'll run into more nice and supportive players than the odd bad apple!

It's kind of a forward and back here--

Though I do mostly agree with OP more than anyone else here due to the situation mentioned. But that's probably because I don't understand the need to maximize when you're geared and have the fight on farm to the point where if you accidentally fart you'll skip a phase. Nor do I see any problem with playing it safe while you're still in the early stages. If you see that you're successful in remaining alive to continue a stream of damage, but you haven't 100% gotten that scripted fight rotation down to a second nature level of memory, it would be best to continue that and minimize the amount of times you die. At least until you actually get to the rotation down which for most of you gifted individuals doesn't take more than a clear or two, right?

But what do I know. I quit raiding a while ago despite being told I was well over good enough for doing it. I just don't find raiding fun.

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Originally Posted by Mhiro

Nor do I see any problem with playing it safe while you're still in the early stages. If you see that you're successful in remaining alive to continue a stream of damage, but you haven't 100% gotten that scripted fight rotation down to a second nature level of memory, it would be best to continue that and minimize the amount of times you die.

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it took me halfway into this raid tier to make up my mind on this exact situation.

I started out thinking exactly how you do on this, but I later learned it was actually crippling my DPS. Because I was playing it safe during the learning stages (running away from aoe's before i had to, prepositioning for w/e thing was happening, etc), I found I was clearing the fights just fine w/o having to optimize my DPS bc "I was alive the whole time, so who cares." but when it came to optimizing DPS, I realized playing it safe made me ignore all the opportunities I could've been greedy, dragging my DPS down. The result was having to learn to be greedy in our clear parties and THAT resulted in more deaths, completely being counter-intuitive to the goal. Overall, if I wanted top DPS in our clear parties, I should've been taking more risks in the learning phase, die, learn, repeat lesson until I dont die anymore, and I wouldn't have run into my issue.

A death in the learning phase isnt nearly as frustrating as a death on our 8th weekly clear and everyone has memorized the fight.

Also maximizing your DPS means shorter runs, shorter runs means less damage to heal, less damage to heal means overall a better run. It's all a facet of the game that can actually help make things safer on the long term.