So about WHM aggro in 4.5

Has anyone noticed a change at all?
I still seem to rush way up on the aggro list as normal and I quickly learned that pre Medica II is still not possible, I was hoping we could precast this similar to aspected helios after the changes.
I even died a couple times to aggro in Seiryu ex add phase.

I assumed the aggro changes would put us closer to where AST stays at (almost always last), but it just doesn't feel any different.

I wish they had given solid numbers on how the reduction worked but like most things it seems someone is gonna have to test it out and do the math themselves. I hope they didn't troll us and reduce generation by like 5% or something.

I haven't felt a big difference myself, was still jumping up on TG Cid after the first "White Hole, Version 437" but I've been in offtank groups and many of them aren't starting with any aggro combos there so it's not a good example. I did, however, Pre-Medica 2 on Snake-Taur and while I climbed I didn't get as high as I've been getting having to Pre-Medica 2 on O11 (Feels bad to do that just to get an extra 100 potency on a RDM who leaps out of star for their opener, heh). But tanks mighta been playing safe, hard to tell.

I might do some testing when I get some free time on a target dummy with a tank. Let em do an aggro combo or two, aspected helios vs medica 2, let em tick out, see how the aggro bars look. If I do I'll drop the results here.

Yeah, it's super annoying you have to resort to outside methods to find about how much aggro multipliers were changed. This with both tanks and now WHM.

Normal healing aggro is x0.5. AST has x0.8 aggro gen tied to both Sects so that's x0.4 on healing and x0.8 on damage so I think simple skill tied reductions on WHM won't bring it to AST's level.
From my own testing it seems now that all WHM's healing stuff now generate x0.35 aggro, which is slightly lower than AST's. But since WHM still generates full aggro with damaging spells WHM still isn't quite on SCH and AST's level.

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Originally Posted by AleXwern

Yeah, it's super annoying you have to resort to outside methods to find about how much aggro multipliers were changed. This with both tanks and now WHM.

Normal healing aggro is x0.5. AST has x0.8 aggro gen tied to both Sects so that's x0.4 on healing and x0.8 on damage so I think simple skill tied reductions on WHM won't bring it to AST's level.
From my own testing it seems now that all WHM's healing stuff now generate x0.35 aggro, which is slightly lower than AST's. But since WHM still generates full aggro with damaging spells WHM still isn't quite on SCH and AST's level.

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<3 for your testing and data so far!

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Originally Posted by AleXwern

Yeah, it's super annoying you have to resort to outside methods to find about how much aggro multipliers were changed. This with both tanks and now WHM.

Normal healing aggro is x0.5. AST has x0.8 aggro gen tied to both Sects so that's x0.4 on healing and x0.8 on damage so I think simple skill tied reductions on WHM won't bring it to AST's level.
From my own testing it seems now that all WHM's healing stuff now generate x0.35 aggro, which is slightly lower than AST's. But since WHM still generates full aggro with damaging spells WHM still isn't quite on SCH and AST's level.

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Thanks for this. That's interesting, I didn't think WHM aggro was cut so low but still able to draw so much aggro.

Must be that new Assize lol.

I kind of mentioned this is another thread but to add it here:
WHM's opener now generates more aggro, not less. +100 healing potency mean +800 healing aggro when you consider there's 8 party members. And Assize has no enmity reduction.

With that being said, I did notice aggro reduction in certain healing intensive phases - most chiefly, patch into ion efflux into hello world. Even popping shroud there, I'd often catch right back up with the amount of healing required. Now the lead tanks have is a bit more comfortable.

So I think it's mostly going to be the start of things like... well, add phases. Or if you went back and did some fight with aggro reset mechanics. Enmity around these kind of places is still something to watch.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Has anyone noticed a change at all?
I still seem to rush way up on the aggro list as normal and I quickly learned that pre Medica II is still not possible, I was hoping we could precast this similar to aspected helios after the changes.
I even died a couple times to aggro in Seiryu ex add phase.

I assumed the aggro changes would put us closer to where AST stays at (almost always last), but it just doesn't feel any different.

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Don't know where people are getting this extra aggro from, I've yet to have an issue with it in Seiryu EX. If you're getting aggro during the Add phase, either your tanks are being lazy, the other healer isn't pulling their weight, or you're overhealing.

the aggro mostly comes from the new assize which dmg is 1.0x and healing is .5 on it every 45 secs so whatever

In another words this continues untouched:

https://imgur.com/kObRTWU.jpg

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I kind of mentioned this is another thread but to add it here:
WHM's opener now generates more aggro, not less. +100 healing potency mean +800 healing aggro when you consider there's 8 party members. And Assize has no enmity reduction.

With that being said, I did notice aggro reduction in certain healing intensive phases - most chiefly, patch into ion efflux into hello world. Even popping shroud there, I'd often catch right back up with the amount of healing required. Now the lead tanks have is a bit more comfortable.

So I think it's mostly going to be the start of things like... well, add phases. Or if you went back and did some fight with aggro reset mechanics. Enmity around these kind of places is still something to watch.

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Assize didn't get enmity reduction because side effects don't generate aggro so it only generates aggro based on how much damage it deals. Yes, the healing part of Assize is a side-effect like Bloodbath, Earthly Star, Synastry, 50% selfheal from Clemency etc.
However, apparently regen part of Asylum, Medica II and Regen are not changed and generate aggro like previously. Medica II with Cure III were the biggest culprits behind WHM's tank like aggro gen so Medica II's unchanged regen effect is probably the reason why WHMs still rip aggro so easily.

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Originally Posted by AleXwern

Assize didn't get enmity reduction because side effects don't generate aggro so it only generates aggro based on how much damage it deals. Yes, the healing part of Assize is a side-effect like Bloodbath, Earthly Star, Synastry, 50% selfheal from Clemency etc.
However, apparently regen part of Asylum, Medica II and Regen are not changed and generate aggro like previously. Medica II with Cure III were the biggest culprits behind WHM's tank like aggro gen so Medica II's unchanged regen effect is probably the reason why WHMs still rip aggro so easily.

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That's the first I heard of assize's healing not doing enmity, so I went to test it myself by someone hitting a dummy and then me assizing them. No enmity on the dummy from me. Cure 1, now on the list at #2 enmity.

Thank you a bunch for sharing that information, I don't believe many WHMs know that about Assize's healing.

It's honestly hilarious if the regen effect of Medica II did not get adjusted by this change. Sad too, but headdesk roll-eyes kinda hilarious.

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Originally Posted by AleXwern

Assize didn't get enmity reduction because side effects don't generate aggro so it only generates aggro based on how much damage it deals. Yes, the healing part of Assize is a side-effect like Bloodbath, Earthly Star, Synastry, 50% selfheal from Clemency etc.
However, apparently regen part of Asylum, Medica II and Regen are not changed and generate aggro like previously. Medica II with Cure III were the biggest culprits behind WHM's tank like aggro gen so Medica II's unchanged regen effect is probably the reason why WHMs still rip aggro so easily.

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This is really interesting information, thank you so much for sharing! Honestly didn't know that. However, it's pretty dumb to not reduce enmity generation on Hots, since that's literally where most of our enmity even comes from! Hilariously useless 'buff'...

Just re-checked a recording from my first T.G.Cid run ever last night as WHM. Had another WHM as co-healer who knew what to expect so they did the bulk of reactionary-healing while I was learning the ropes. Aside from the obvious CureIII moments due to the 1HP mechanic (which predictably put them 2nd in emnity) it wasn't nearly enough to reach whatever opener the tank used, then both of us promptly dropped to the more standard mid-emnity mark doing basic DPS. Honestly, I never really notice it unless I'm going absolutely ham with MedII or CIII's for some nonsensical reason. Even pre-boss regens and occasional pre-emptive MedII's won't put me in much danger, unless you consider being low-2nd as danger-zone, or your tank is half asleep, but I realize that's not exactly an informative collection of info, just how it has consistently felt for the longest time.

I'll say this: My comms are still going to NIN who smoke screen me.

Prior to 4.5 I pulled the most hate during trash pulls in PUG dungeons. My opener on trash is typically Swiftcast+Holy, Cleric stance, Aero 3, Aero 2, PoM, Holy, Assize, Holy, Lucid dreaming, plus regen is active. The tank absolutely must be generating agro during this time, or I will get hate. This hasn't changed at all. I just ran Skalla last night and I was pulling hate all over the place.

Now by saying "most hate", that doesn't mean it's happening all the time. Only that this is the situation where it is more frequent. I bring up NIN smoke screen because this is what WHM needs. An ability that reduces the amount of enmity they generate, not a tool that cuts it in half. The latter's effectiveness is increased the greater the enmity is, while the former performs optimally for each skill the WHM uses. They honestly could have changed LD to do that instead of reducing enmity on all of our healing abilities and this thread probably wouldn't even exist.