[Spoilers] Marker Placement on the third boss of the new raid

So, there seems to be arguments about which marker placements are the best. Many people seem to be stuck on the Ozma way of doing things when this boss has a better preferred placement than an Ozma setup. There was a Reddit discussion about it and I feel the official forums should have one to, just to get each side (and my preferred one) out there since raids are pretty stubborn.


Reddit Thread in question: https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...marker_scheme/


The comparison image:
https://i.redd.it/ezgfdh54bo921.png

Thank you for this.
I've definitely found that the markers on the right have led to smoother runs (even if I've still wiped due to some bad healing)
I think people are trying to 'just do Ozma strategy' and it's not a perfect fit even if there are similarities.

It's worth noting that the adds spawn in exactly where those markers are (on the right) and when you return to the original arena, you will land in the 'left' circle of your respective alliance.

And yes, the letters have to be in the right order, as the adds which spawn will specifically target that alliance for their line AoE which must be directed to the edge of the arena.
If you swap the letters around you'll end up creating three-way cross/triangle across the arena which hits at roughly the same time as the donut/circle and stacking mechanics.

The image on the right actually makes more sense now that I see it. Now all that's left is to convince the masses ingame to adopt this.

The only thing i see being a problem is the "in or out" nature of his sword attacks (i dont remember what they're called). People will have to decide a left or right inner/outer circle depending on the attack as the marker placement isn't safe for either (I think, i never stood there but it looks too close).

either way, not too difficult to teach or understand, but I'll never forget the Bard I had that ate literally every single aoe/mechanic the game threw at them for the entire duration of the lockout. Literally beat the raid at 10 minutes left. nothing will help those poor souls.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

So, there seems to be arguments about which marker placements are the best. Many people seem to be stuck on the Ozma way of doing things when this boss has a better preferred placement than an Ozma setup. There was a Reddit discussion about it and I feel the official forums should have one to, just to get each side (and my preferred one) out there since raids are pretty stubborn.


Reddit Thread in question: https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...marker_scheme/


The comparison image:
https://i.redd.it/ezgfdh54bo921.png

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Thank you for posting this. I got yelled at for placing markers in between the circles as depicted in the second image. Somebody kept removing my markers and set them up with the Ozma marker placement. As a result, players from team A kept dropping their meteors on our circle and team C ended up wiping. I find the Ozma marker placement to be way more confusing for players.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

The only thing i see being a problem is the "in or out" nature of his sword attacks (i dont remember what they're called). People will have to decide a left or right inner/outer circle depending on the attack as the marker placement isn't safe for either (I think, i never stood there but it looks too close).

either way, not too difficult to teach or understand, but I'll never forget the Bard I had that ate literally every single aoe/mechanic the game threw at them for the entire duration of the lockout. Literally beat the raid at 10 minutes left. nothing will help those poor souls.

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To be fair, neither the in nor the out moves need anybody to be in a particular circle, so as long as folks flee respectively it shouldn't be too bad.

I guess I've been lucky, the 3 times I've done him we had that setup (right) already. Although someone kept moving markers this time, which was annoying. We made it through, though.

T.G. Holy Blade and Crush Weapon makes me prefer the Left method, those bridges are not safe from any of the 3 attacks and Crush Weapon to best way to ensure it doesn't hit is dropping it at the back of a platform and moving over to the next one. But if people are standing the bridge between those platforms, it would wipe them.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

T.G. Holy Blade and Crush Weapon makes me prefer the Left method, those bridges are not safe from any of the 3 attacks and Crush Weapon to best way to ensure it doesn't hit is dropping it at the back of a platform and moving over to the next one. But if people are standing the bridge between those platforms, it would wipe them.

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You still have time to do this. You can move the placement of Crush weapon before it goes off.
You have more room to manoeuvre if you're on the bridge, you can go either way. If you're in the circle, the only way you can go is towards the bridge.

Left side makes tethers and crush blade more manageable. The attacks that can wipe an entire alliance.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Left side makes tethers and crush blade more manageable. The attacks that can wipe an entire alliance.

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You spread out for tethers, and you move away for crush blades, its not difficult and i haven't seen a wipe because of these.
Overlapping bubbles because people didnt get to the back in time, or went the wrong way because the marker being in a circle was misleading, are far more likely.
Having the markers on the bridge doesnt mean everyone stays stacked on the bridge the entire fight.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You spread out for tethers, and you move away for crush blades, its not difficult and i haven't seen a wipe because of these.
Overlapping bubbles because people didnt get to the back in time, or went the wrong way because the marker being in a circle was misleading, are far more likely.
Having the markers on the bridge doesnt mean everyone stays stacked on the bridge the entire fight.

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Personally, I haven't seen a single wipe caused by the bubbles overlapping, their damage is actually surprisingly low, it'd take at least 4 out of 6 of them overlapping to do it... It's more that everyone seems to forget Duskblade comes up and don't move which then wipes the raid...

And ironically, the Duskblade cast actually gives some peace to heal up the damage.

Honestly I don't trust rando's enough to use the border method. There's been one too many instances of them dropping the chase puddle on the middle of the party or flailing about for which place to stack for duskblade that makes me vastly prefer the left method. Also like Captain said, the bubbles overlapping isn't going to kill you. The bleed is absolutely annoying but it's failing other mechanics that does you in when it's there.

If this was an 8-man I'd be down for using the first strat. As it stands I've seen more success with the second one with barely any positives to recommend the first with human error being the true killer in that particular fight. It's also easier to explain to panicked newbies to treat it like Ozma with muscle memory being a powerful tool.

All that said though whichever strat the majority of the raid agrees with, I'll go with. This fight isn't hard in the slightest and that fact allows both strats to be viable. It's just human error throwing potential monkey wrenches into the mix that spices things up.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

The only thing i see being a problem is the "in or out" nature of his sword attacks (i dont remember what they're called). People will have to decide a left or right inner/outer circle depending on the attack as the marker placement isn't safe for either (I think, i never stood there but it looks too close).

either way, not too difficult to teach or understand, but I'll never forget the Bard I had that ate literally every single aoe/mechanic the game threw at them for the entire duration of the lockout. Literally beat the raid at 10 minutes left. nothing will help those poor souls.

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In/Out is fairly easy to dodge from the bridge, you can move a couple steps down or up diagonally and dodge it. You just have to be above the top line of the "bridges" to dodge in, and below the bottom line of the bridges to dodge "out."

I'd probably end up using the 2nd method even if they put ozma markers down. Makes it easier to reach the duskblade from the bridge/more braindead to tell which are yours since it's just left/right and centralizes the group for healing no matter which circle is safe for his other attacks. From doing a ton of EX primals (esp Suzaku), "go clockwise from marker" is still something people tend to screw up.

Doesn't really matter too much in the long run since you can adjust to either method but having one accepted strategy would help it go smoother.

I much prefer the bridge strat. Much less movement, more space for tethers and deathbeams, and less chance of groups overlapping because people still don’t know their left from their right.

Now we just need to agree on In or Out for the add phase. In has its merits, but I think Out is more consiyystent since no one is ever close enough to the center to properly do In.

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Originally Posted by Jillian

Thank you for posting this. I got yelled at for placing markers in between the circles as depicted in the second image. Somebody kept removing my markers and set them up with the Ozma marker placement. As a result, players from team A kept dropping their meteors on our circle and team C ended up wiping. I find the Ozma marker placement to be way more confusing for players.

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You and me, both. Any time I placed them on the bridge, someone on the other alliance would delete them and then go for the image on the left... or go the extra mile and include every single Waymark: A+1, B+2, C+D.
Heck, one of the reasons this one person gave is: "I'm not going on the bridge. It's Fing dumb."

Speaking of Ozma, I also put the waymarks on the bridges in that fight. This allowed new players to the fight to realise they made a mistake if they dropped their Meteors to the right.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

You spread out for tethers, and you move away for crush blades, its not difficult and i haven't seen a wipe because of these.
Overlapping bubbles because people didnt get to the back in time, or went the wrong way because the marker being in a circle was misleading, are far more likely.
Having the markers on the bridge doesnt mean everyone stays stacked on the bridge the entire fight.

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But uh, what exactly is so difficult about "Go left"? I know people struggled with prime numbers in Ridorana but are we seriously at the point of not knowing left from right?

You say that, but people still go right on Ozma

I wonder if the left is an NA thing as my four runs this week so far have all used the right side and from chats with friends they also use that method afaik. Didn't even know left was a thing.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

You say that, but people still go right on Ozma

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And on Thunder God people still run out of the duskblade or drop the shard eruptions on the party for the sake of their DPS. You can't cure either willful stupidity or sheer blind panic.

Some people also don't speak english, and I've seriously had people respond to me on Ozma with "well I've always gone right".
Placing it on the bridge leaves no room for misunderstanding, those are your two circles clearly marked.

Unpopular oppinion, apparently, but i find the left far less confusing as a melee. By putting the marker on a platform i am always able to figure out where to go.

Whereas when i ran with people who were doing the right placement i was always turrned around.

Not saying its a bad strategy, just that there are pros and cons both ways

I dunno how it can turn you around. It's just letting you know that the platforms between the Waymark are yours and it ultimately doesn't matter where you stand as the only damage coming out are from Cleansing Strike, Duskblade and the stack mechanic (and maybe the tether). Everything else you can either avoid, or won't even be targeted by.

I much prefer the right with the markers on the bridge. It is the far more intuitive option and the better choice for clearing with random people you don't know. I believe those who hate the one on the right are simply set in their ways and expect to do the one on the left due to their experience with earlier content. Unfortunately for them, the left being what they're comfortable with doesn't automatically make it the better option for all.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

I much prefer the right with the markers on the bridge. It is the far more intuitive option and the better choice for clearing with random people you don't know. I believe those who hate the one on the right are simply set in their ways and expect to do the one on the left due to their experience with earlier content. Unfortunately for them, the left being what they're comfortable with doesn't automatically make it the better option for all.

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People have given their reasons for preferring one or the other and none of it has come down to 'I don't want to learn a new way'. Kinda disingenuous to insinuate that.

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Originally Posted by Kanzy0

Unpopular oppinion, apparently, but i find the left far less confusing as a melee. By putting the marker on a platform i am always able to figure out where to go.

Whereas when i ran with people who were doing the right placement i was always turrned around.

Not saying its a bad strategy, just that there are pros and cons both ways

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But that's part of what makes the Bridge method better. Getting "turned around" doesn't really matter as long as: 1) you don't run farther than one circle away from your bridge and 2) during double meteors, you don't both try to deposit on the same side.

With the Circle strat you vastly increase the chance that someone gets turned around and runs in the wrong direction straight into the arms of the other group, which increases your chances of a full wipe. Just like with Ozma, I still see people who apparently have no idea what "clockwise" means or just plain can't tell their right from their left. You don't have to worry about them if you Bridge it unless they're dropping Deathbeams and meteors right into the group, but no strat will fix nonsense like that.

My first completion was with the markers on the right. Definitely a better system because you can move things in either direction without worrying about running into the other party.

Only issue I had with it were people not paying attention to the weapon crush marker like they should and move it away from the group so everyone else had to scatter.

I prefer the right diagram, simply because as someone already stated, you don't have to stand on the marker at all times; it's a guide to show which two circles are "yours." Placing the marker on just one circle and simply telling people that the circle to the left is "theirs" is far more likely to encourage players to linger exclusively on that marked circle and trip-up players in the heat of moment (and prone to panic/not pay attention) to running to either adjacent circle (yes, to the right too) to get rid of their markers or when they have to divide for 3-person pads. It's not so much an issue about "space to perform mechanics/avoid AoEs" as it is indicating boundaries.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Overlapping bubbles because people didnt get to the back in time

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The times I see overlapping bubbles are when someone goes right instead of left, or both start left and both commit to it thinking the other will course correct. I've yet to see the time to go from the center(ish) of one circle to the back of the one to the left be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

The times I see overlapping bubbles are when someone goes right instead of left, or both start left and both commit to it thinking the other will course correct. I've yet to see the time to go from the center(ish) of one circle to the back of the one to the left be an issue.

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Its just as likely that people will 'commit' to the right, or panic and both go left.
As the diagram states, at least they'll have a shorter distance to run.

Is this Bone Dragon all over again?

I did 2 runs so far (tuesday and wednesday), both were with the method of the markers on the bridge (image on the right), and in both cases we beat the fight on the 3rd try, although most people were new to the fight. Maybe i was lucky, maybe it's a matter of the strategy, but i know of several people who had to do several runs to get past this boss. With this strategy you never have to run far, it doesn't matter whether you go left or right and you'll never even come into contact with one of the other parties. As a bonus, everyone is often stacked very closely which allows me to use Cure 3, which makes healing up to remove the doom a joke. The chasing circle AoE was never an issue.