State of the Ascians after 4.5

I'm terrible at keeping track of the story and remembering what happens patch to patch (which is why I'm very much looking forward to the New Game+ so I can go through it all again without starting a whole new character). I was hoping someone could give a run down of the Ascians we know about, including the revelations in 4.5.

How many are there? How many have we killed? Who are the leaders? Who's possessing who?

Thanks in advance!

There were originally 14 overlords (black robe, red mask), one emissary (Elidibus, white robe, red mask), and an unknown number of lesser Ascians (black mask).

Nabriales, originally of the 12th, was killed in the Rising Stones with white auracite.
Igeyorhm, originally of the 13th, was killed in ARF with white auracite.
Lahabrea, one of the three Source Ascians, was killed in ARF by Thordan.

Mitron, from the 1st, was banished but is likely alive in the rift (some debate this, but we must remember Nabriales' death was a surprise to Lahabrea and Elidibus in the 2.55 epilogue; no Ascian had ever died before that point).
Two unknown overlords have been either banished or killed by Gaius. Given the lion-shaped mask, we can assume one was Fandaniel, but the other mask doesn't have many distinguishing features.

Emet-Selch, the second Source overlord, is alive; we are meant to assume it's him possessing Solus.
Elidibus, also of the Source, is possessing Zenos.

As for "leaders," Lahabrea and Emet-Selch, being of the Source, would outrank the other 12 overlords. Elidibus' position is tricky. He usually has a different role in ensuring the overlords don't tip the balance too far in their efforts to cause rejoining and has supreme veto power to intervene when needed, but he's also trying to cover Lahabrea's responsibilities since his death and would be in a similar position of authority over the others.

There is also Altima, who shows up during the Ascian Council scene in the Chrysalis in the patch 2.3 storylione, but apart from that brief named appearence, she hasn't been seen since. So whether or not she is of the Source or another shard is unclear.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

There is also Altima, who shows up during the Ascian Council scene in the Chrysalis in the patch 2.3 storylione, but apart from that brief named appearence, she hasn't been seen since. So whether or not she is of the Source or another shard is unclear.

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Assuming Gaius has accurate intelligence, we know she's of another shard, since he says there are only three of the Source and we know all three of their names.

But yes, we have three Ascians who have only spoken once whose statuses are unknown: Altima, Emmerololth, and Pashtarot. They may be working on the Source subordinate to Elidibus and Emet-Selch, or they may be tending to matters on their home shards.

We have no knowledge about Emet-Selch, other then that he's an Ascian overlord from the Source.

For all we know, he's only recently joined the overlords and really is who Solus was. As in... he's not possessing anyone.

All of the known Overlords are named after one of the Scions of Light from XII mythos. Elidibus and Altima are outliers, as their corresponding Espers have no Scion of Light counterpart; instead the former takes his name from the bonus boss holding the Zodiark summon in Tactics, while Altima is an alternate spelling of "Ultima" (notably used for her appearance in the original translation of Tactics). There are fourteen in total.

All of the lesser Ascians (black masks) known are named after suits of the Lesser Arcana (Scepters, Swords, Coins, Cups). Total number unknown. (Limited to 4/Overlord?)

Known Ascians and their status:

Lahabrea: Source Overlord. Possessed Thancred during A Realm Reborn. Engineered Archbishop Thordan's ascendancy to false godhood, but was slain by him after a lengthy battle with the Warrior of Light.
Elidibus: Source Overlord. Emissary. Active. Works mostly from the shadows, where he's operated since 2.1 (A Realm Awoken). Currently possessing (the corpse of) Zenos yae Galvus.
Nabriales: Slain by the Warrior of Light while attempting to claim Tupsimati.
Igeyorhm: Former Overlord of the 13th shard; assisted Lahabrea during Heavensward to atone for her blunder with the 13th. Slain by the Warrior of Light.
Mitron: (Former?) Overlord of the 1st shard; defeated (slain?) by the Warriors of Darkness.
Altima: Status unknown. Presumably alive.
Emet-Selch: Overlord of the Source. Alive, likely active.

Solus zos Galvus: Alive and active. Exact circumstances surrounding his past remain foggy. (True name Emet-Selch?)

Unaccounted for:

• Loghrif
• Pashtarot
• Fandaniel
• Halmarut
• Deudalaphon
• Emmerololth

Lahabrea's known underlings (Ascians of the Twelfth Scepter, Sword, Coin, and Chalice) were all slain by Y'mhitra, Dancing Wolf, and the Warrior of Light during "A Flare for the Dramatic" (SMN 60).

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

We have no knowledge about Emet-Selch, other then that he's an Ascian overlord from the Source.

For all we know, he's only recently joined the overlords and really is who Solus was. As in... he's not possessing anyone.

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I agree, although we do know he's possessing "someone", or a body at any rate - specifically clones of his former mortal self.

There was also that nameless 'masked man' lesser Ascian the player destroys early on in ARR's storyline during the level 15 MSQ instanced fight for their starting city.

Not to mention the infamous Travanchet, an Ascian who was getting around in the guise of a shadowless elezen pirate in 1.0's Limsa Lominsa starting storyline (apparently he was retconned out of the story, only to be brought back as a namedrop many years later in Heavensward in passing during the Alexander storyline.). Whether Travenchet was the same as the nameless 'bestial' Ascian that appeared briefly in 1.0 is unclear (the bestial Ascian had the same form as the 'Ascian Prime' combined form of Lahabrea and Igeyorhm many years later as the final boss of the Aetherochemical Research Facility in HW).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Whether Travenchet was the same as the nameless 'bestial' Ascian that appeared briefly in 1.0 is unclear (the bestial Ascian had the same form as the 'Ascian Prime' combined form of Lahabrea and Igeyorhm many years later as the final boss of the Aetherochemical Research Facility in HW).

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I would doubt the first half of that because of the second half of that. Ascian Prime was called such because its form was closer to that of a "true" Ascian, whereas Travanchet was by all accounts thus far a random black-mask possessing a dead Elezen. While it may be an (addition-)retcon (NEW REVELATION) to suggest such, I've been assuming it was Lahabrea seen performing part of his false flag operation to convince the beast tribes the "unclean" city-states had "invited" the creatures of the Dark having his minions come to them as messengers of the primals with the methods to call them in defense.

Likewise, I can't help but see Emet-selch as another "new revelation" that wasn't necessarily intended before now. We had 14 overlords and 14 dimensions, and Nabriales failed to mention a third Source-born "Original" when he first dropped the hint in 2.5, and it never came up at any of the meetings. Lahabrea's place was "unique." Perhaps the power of a transmigrationist Ascian can be elevated by Zodiark's will and Emet-selch was "promoted" after his successful rejoining of another shard, idk. It feels like an attempt to break the mold with Solus while not undoing Thordan's character-defining technical victory over Lahabrea. (Which, if so, kudos to the writers for considering the big picture.)

An additional thought on Solus possessing the clones... does this mean Ascians need a physical host at all times? And if that host dies, they then need to either body-hop or use their dark crystal to return to the space between the worlds?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

An additional thought on Solus possessing the clones... does this mean Ascians need a physical host at all times? And if that host dies, they then need to either body-hop or use their dark crystal to return to the space between the worlds?

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I don't know if they need a host to survive as such (in the way we need oxygen), but I suspect (without proof) that they can probably survive easily without a host by hanging out in the space between worlds, and they "need" a host mainly because otherwise they can't actually influence or act on anything, due to having no tangible hands.

Having said that, I need to recheck the 2.x cutscenes where the nature of Elidibus is discussed, because I'm not sure how his "I'm not actually here and the Echo-less will not even notice me" thing works. I can't remember if that means Ascians (and other people with expert command over the Echo) can "shape" their formless aetherial self into a humanoid appearance in order to talk to mortals, as opposed to doing it to the host they are currently inhabiting.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I can't remember if that means Ascians (and other people with expert command over the Echo) can "shape" their formless aetherial self into a humanoid appearance in order to talk to mortals, as opposed to doing it to the host they are currently inhabiting.

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Not only can they do this, we've witnessed it on several occasions.

Nabriales re-forms himself after his defeat in the Chrysalis. You can see his old body on the ground briefly, which he waves his arm over and dissipates into aether. Note that Moenbryda, who doesn't have the Echo, can still see him.

Lahabrea and Igeyorhm similarly re-form after we defeat Ascian Prime. Thordan and his knights can still see them after doing so.

And of course, most recently, we have Varis shooting his granddad in the forehead, only to have him re-form a new body a moment later. Presumably he went and picked up another suit from the clone shop afterward.

It seems that having a host merely makes it easier for them to interact with the world, not that it's necessary. As for Tataru not being able to see Elidibus, he said it was because she lacked "the gift and knowledge both." Presumably it only had to do with the fact that she'd never seen an Ascian before and had no presuppositions about what one should look like.