World Visit system

Greetings,
I wanted to ask a question with the upcoming implementation of World Visit system.
What is the difference of this and Cross-Realm Zone(CRZ) of World of Warcraft ?
As an Ex-WoW player (Left around Warlords of Draenor Launch ) i have very mixed feelings about this change.
I wonder if they have any sort of wall to battle problems like people jumping from a world to an other farm something and so on.
I am pretty sure by now people know all the problems CRZ caused at WoW and with the huge numbers of WoW players now it will be nice to see also their opinion on the matter.
Thank you :)

Also i hope people cant buy staff from Worlds they Visit via the MB or via Trade of any sorts!

The World Visit feature will have several limitations, but buying in other world's Market Boards won't be one of those. Still, you can't sell from those worlds, so let's see how economy changes when this gets implemented. You can do some research, I'm pretty sure there's somewhere with all the info about it.

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

Also i hope people cant buy staff from Worlds they Visit via the MB or via Trade of any sorts!

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We'll be able to purchase items from other servers.
Yoshida said that in the live letter here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPh-GOdyRiA&t=2650

Why the made this stupid move?
This will destroy the servers economy!

I'm a bit surprised they let you buy while visiting other worlds but it'll probably balance out in the end.

I'm just curious if you'll be locked from visiting congested worlds. IE, Balmung. The idea seems to be a measure to get people on high populated realms to play on low pop realms when doing new msq content etc to even out the stress, so I wonder if just as you can't make a new character on a congested world or xfer into it via mog station, will they bar players from other servers from visiting Balmung to keep the traffic down?

I dont mind people visiting my world if they dont harm it !
Buying from the Market Board and selling to your World will hurt both economies. I see no reason to it. And if there is a reason it will be fantastic to let us know.
SE needs to understand that becoming successful doesn't mean copy everything WoW does blindly.
See what other games do good and copy the good staff.
CRZ ,sharding and all the controversial staff Blizzard added over the years are best to left out.
After all i didn't leave WoW just to see staff i hated there to come here.
Whats next? RNG on top of RNG on Top of RNG with titan-Beast-superbeastforged gear?
Heart of the Warrior of the Light ?
Please no.

If by "destroy the economy" you mean "make all the servers have similar buy and sell prices", then I don't see the problem.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

If by "destroy the economy" you mean "make all the servers have similar buy and sell prices", then I don't see the problem.

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Because a small server doesnt have the same power as a huge server.
Its not a matter of selling and buying staff.
Its a matter of what power a community has to buy and sell.

What I'm hoping to see with World Visits is A) No retainer access B) Similar rules to World Transfers on how much gil you can bring on your "visit".

Ummm… Won't this help small servers the most? If I were on a small server with limited resources and gil, I'd be very happy to jump to a high-population world to either buy things cheaper, or buy things that aren't even available (at any price) on my small server.

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Originally Posted by GomJabbar

Ummm… Won't this help small servers the most? If I were on a small server with limited resources and gil, I'd be very happy to jump to a high-population world to either buy things cheaper, or buy things that aren't even available (at any price) on my small server.

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It will make small servers better but it will destroy other servers.
Phoenix is mainly a crafting/gathering server.
Imagine people coming buying specific staff and sell to their server !

You sure spout a lot of doom and gloom, but don't provide any explanations to back up your claims.

Welcome to retail business, it's a different setting from a flea market. There are 2 ways you can view this change, you can stay an artisan and create products unique to your server, or you can grab products from other servers and become a retailer yourself. Both ways are still part of tradecraft. People buy and resell even on same server, it doesn't matter if the market is expanded to other servers.

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

Because a small server doesnt have the same power as a huge server.
Its not a matter of selling and buying staff.
Its a matter of what power a community has to buy and sell.

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actually, smaller sever where the problem start... did you know the smaller server is godly overprice? while big server much more cheaper.
So yes this will be great for smaller server.

it also mean Crafter now have bigger competitor i don't longer have to be annoyed at the fact they one person ruling everything in the market board.

no it won't be economy destroying.. i will actually help us.

BTW smaller server have huge amount of Gil is super crazy.

The World Visit system is completely different from the CRZ of World of Warcraft, so I don't see what exactly you are saying that SE is just copying Blizz nor do I understand your doom and gloom statements either. CRZ was something that was forced upon everyone with only a few ways to control it, and caused a lot of other issues since the Server you were on can change from zone to zone. World Visit is far more controlled than that. World Visit can only be accessed through a City Aetheryte and you /choose/ which Server you'd like to go to which then allows you to even do Maps and stuff with friends on other servers. Something you are currently unable to do. Not only that but you aren't randomly forced onto another server when moving to a new zone either.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I'm just curious if you'll be locked from visiting congested worlds. IE, Balmung. The idea seems to be a measure to get people on high populated realms to play on low pop realms when doing new msq content etc to even out the stress, so I wonder if just as you can't make a new character on a congested world or xfer into it via mog station, will they bar players from other servers from visiting Balmung to keep the traffic down?

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You cannot visit a congested world. Balmung players can visit other worlds but non-Balmung players can't visit Balmung until the server population goes back to "regular".

I only played WoW for a little while after CRZ came in effect, and the main problem I ran into was that gathering nodes were all shared, so only one person could gather and when they were done it was gone for everyone. Which meant a dearth of resources as they were now suddenly shared across multiple servers. Over here, gathering nodes work differently, with everyone having access to their own instance of one, so that problem at least won't happen as there is no competing over nodes.

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

Because a small server doesnt have the same power as a huge server.
Its not a matter of selling and buying staff.
Its a matter of what power a community has to buy and sell.

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This doesn't make sense because if you're on a smaller world, you'll pay a lot more for items in general. But now (When added) you get to Visit other Worlds and buy from elsewhere, and I get to sell my items to a large new crowd of buyers!

I have heard that some servers have problems with crafting and marketplace bots. This would kinda make it an all servers problem, as players can just go to the botted worlds for the rediculously cheap items there, leading to legit crafters earning less

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

Greetings,
I wanted to ask a question with the upcoming implementation of World Visit system.
What is the difference of this and Cross-Realm Zone(CRZ) of World of Warcraft ?
As an Ex-WoW player (Left around Warlords of Draenor Launch ) i have very mixed feelings about this change.
I wonder if they have any sort of wall to battle problems like people jumping from a world to an other farm something and so on.
I am pretty sure by now people know all the problems CRZ caused at WoW and with the huge numbers of WoW players now it will be nice to see also their opinion on the matter.
Thank you :)

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CRZ automatically dumped players from multiple realms into the same zone instance so zones didn't belong to any specific world. You had no choice - the game chose for you.

With World Visit, zone instances will continue to belong to a specific world and you will have to specifically choose to opt in to visit another world's zone instances.

I'm still leery of the potential for cross world trolls to screw with zone activities on other worlds. It could be the trolls will get bored with it fast since moving between worlds is somewhat inconvenient and you're cut off from things that can only be done on your home world.

In the long run, it's likely to only be used to visit and play with friends on other worlds in the same data center. I don't think it will harm FFXIV the way CRZ harmed WoW.

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

Also i hope people cant buy staff from Worlds they Visit via the MB or via Trade of any sorts!

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Players will be able to buy from the MB on the worlds they visit. It doesn't sound like we'll be able to direct trade, though. It's an advantage for those who might have problems finding certain rare items on their home worlds. I don't expect it to have any significant impact on the majority of items sold on the MB since most players aren't likely to world visit to make a normal MB purchase.

There is some real concern about how crafting/gathering bots will further impact prices of crafted end game items but we'll have to wait to see. It could be SE has unannounced plans to crack down on those bots as the same time World Visit is implemented (probably a pipe dream but who knows).

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

Because a small server doesnt have the same power as a huge server.
Its not a matter of selling and buying staff.
Its a matter of what power a community has to buy and sell.

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Yet this also has the potential to increase buying power of the low pop servers in the long by giving their sellers new customers while buyers have more opportunities to get what they want.

Unless you've been making your gil by monopolizing certain commodities on your home world, there should be nothing to fear.

This is one area where FFXIV isn't copying WoW. There is no cross realm AH in WoW.

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

actually, smaller sever where the problem start... did you know the smaller server is godly overprice? while big server much more cheaper.

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That isn't always true. It depends on the commodity and the server. High pop servers have some items in higher demand than low pop servers but the supply doesn't always increase proportionally so their prices can be much higher than on the low pop servers.

They listed all of the restrictions, and Trading (Player to Player) was not one of them.

I'm not that concerned about the markets as I don't really play that game and I also don't do hunts a lot but I'm more worried about how this will effect the hunting scene. On my server there's about 3 daily trains for them and various linkshells that work together on where they're going which is next along with doing their best to get any popped S ranks or fates like Ixion called out with pull times shouted out in the zone. I know they said they would watch how world visits effect hunts but this could kill hunts or damage it to the point not a lot of people want to do it because of an increase of the crap you can have with hunts now.

The only way a cross server market board would work is to blind the MB and they are not going to do that.

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Originally Posted by SnowyPoupa

It will make small servers better but it will destroy other servers.
Phoenix is mainly a crafting/gathering server.
Imagine people coming buying specific staff and sell to their server !

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So servers with a higher proportion of crafters get a wider market to sell to and servers with a lower proportion of crafters get access to goods only sold where there are more crafters. Sounds good for both sides.

I do get how this will initially cause a great stir, as prices are going to shift around a lot. The economy will be all over the place for a while until price points settle down into a new datacenter-wide equilibrium. But eventually, once they do settle down, it looks like it's likely to be better for everyone.

I love the new system! Why should I be punished by having to pay for higher mb prices because the world I wanted to go to was locked? This way, the markets will be normalized and people won't be penalized for being in a low population server.

edit: also I can now visit my static mates hooray!

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

So servers with a higher proportion of crafters get a wider market to sell to and servers with a lower proportion of crafters get access to goods only sold where there are more crafters. Sounds good for both sides.

I do get how this will initially cause a great stir, as prices are going to shift around a lot. The economy will be all over the place for a while until price points settle down into a new datacenter-wide equilibrium. But eventually, once they do settle down, it looks like it's likely to be better for everyone.

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There's definitely going to be price normalization as a result of world travel, but when those prices are being heavily dictated by bot farmers who value quick sales over a decent profit margin, the legitimate crafters are going to be hurting more then ever.

This, of course, would not be an issue if the STF were actually competent at identifying and banning bot farmers but until they do, the economy is going to be awful when it comes to mainstream, high-demand items like food, infusions, and DoW/M/L/H gear.

The only people winning here are going to be the buyers, the bot farmers, and the people selling more obscure items that are mostly ignored by the aforementioned farmers (Which is what I took to doing after I got sick of being hassled by undercut bots).

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The only people winning here are going to be the buyers, the bot farmers, and the people selling more obscure items that are mostly ignored by the aforementioned farmers (Which is what I took to doing after I got sick of being hassled by undercut bots).

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which doesn't make sense. Price is determined by anyone who is willing to sell and buy.

Opening market for more subjects with the EXACTLY SAME means of getting any and all resources DOESN'T change anything. If you have some personal quarrel with "bots" it won't be changed by shared market. If they are problem for you now, it will stay exactly the same after.

Anyway, how do you define your "legitimate crafter" over another who is willing to sell cheaper? I sell cheap too because I don't think it's worth more. I don't really need to buy resources for 2k and sell the products for 100k. And I don't have any problem to sell it for 10k, it's still nice money for me.

If it's not worth someones time for real market price (AKA the price someone is willing to deliver for) and they depend on some sort of monopoly so they can sell "legitimately" expensive wares then they should be scared by shared market, and it's a good thing.

The only way shared market could harm anything is if there are different means for getting things. If one server has 4x bonus for mining then yeah.. shared market could harm someone. But on the other hand.. games that work that way, also allows anyone to go there so it's all equal again.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That isn't always true. It depends on the commodity and the server. High pop servers have some items in higher demand than low pop servers but the supply doesn't always increase proportionally so their prices can be much higher than on the low pop servers.

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But majority of time smaller server have over all the most expensive stuff even if High server have a higher of demand wish most likely smaller server have it as well.

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Originally Posted by Elenoe

which doesn't make sense. Price is determined by anyone who is willing to sell and buy.

Opening market for more subjects with the EXACTLY SAME means of getting any and all resources DOESN'T change anything. If you have some personal quarrel with "bots" it won't be changed by shared market. If they are problem for you now, it will stay exactly the same after.

Anyway, how do you define your "legitimate crafter" over another who is willing to sell cheaper? I sell cheap too because I don't think it's worth more. I don't really need to buy resources for 2k and sell the products for 100k. And I don't have any problem to sell it for 10k, it's still nice money for me.

If it's not worth someones time for real market price (AKA the price someone is willing to deliver for) and they depend on some sort of monopoly so they can sell "legitimately" expensive wares then they should be scared by shared market, and it's a good thing.

The only way shared market could harm anything is if there are different means for getting things. If one server has 4x bonus for mining then yeah.. shared market could harm someone. But on the other hand.. games that work that way, also allows anyone to go there so it's all equal again.

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I'm not sure why you're coming off as hostile and acting like the people I'm talking about aren't actually botting unless you think it's normal to regularly spend 12+ hours doing other things in the day then spend the entire night gathering/crafting. I observe the routines and patterns of players at length before I draw conclusions (And it's not like I have to go out of my way to do it when some of these players just sit in Novice Network for days straight, meaning they're avoiding the auto-kick through constant activity).

That aside, my main concern is that the whole of a data center is now going to potentially be forced to conform to the unreasonably low prices of the bot farmers if they want anything to sell, since people are definitely going to start using market board databases to find the lowest prices they can when it only takes a moment to hop servers. Their strategy is to sell at a price point that's low enough that it's only very profitable for someone who has an infinite amount of time to craft/gather, which scares away all but the most dedicated of players. It takes close to a hour for me to craft a stack of 99 infusions (That's excluding the time spent gathering the mats), which are currently going for only a measly 3.5K each. Pursuing this as a source of income seems wasteful when doing something else, like, say, Eureka can generate comparable passive income while pushing towards other achievements at the same time.

That's not even going into the fact that undercut bots are also regularly used to steal sales away from the people who are persistent enough to try to compete with these guys. Some of the RMTers do actually use this as their method of generating income because it poses little risk of them getting caught and banned compared to decidedly less subtle methods used by the mass-produced gil farmers.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

people are definitely going to start using market board databases to find the lowest prices they can when it only takes a moment to hop servers

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Even if it does only take a moment, they'd have to be buying enough to make it worthwhile. Even teleports cost gil, so I'd be surprised if world hopping doesn't. (Plus we don't know yet whether there will be any limitations on how often you can do it.) Hoping worlds to make a big major purchase would still be worthwhile, but doing so for every little thing you buy is unlikely to be much of a thing. That'd keep a significant number of purchases at home.

Part of the reason is there are high population servers that people have been on from the beginning and are not willing to leave. Their friends they convince to play can't get on the same server and other than doing duty finder together, they're locked out of doing things together in-game if the friend gets set up on a different server. With world visit, they can either stay where they are and world visit their friend or it may possibly convince them to move to their friend's server and world visit their old server from time to time. CRZ is a bit different too, because it's automated (Oh did you just clear the area of mobs that will kill you if you aggro more than one to reach this quest objective, let's just move you to a new shard where those are all still alive automatically!) vs world visit that requires the player to initiate the process.

edit: Didn't see more than the first page, basically just repeated what's already been said. :)