I know addons aren't coming until Version 2.0, but I remember in this old interview on Blue Gartr from four months ago, SE said were planning on making addons use Adobe Flash since it was more visual than straight-up coding. Now I've got nothing against making things more visual, but using Flash is not a good idea because it eats up a ton of CPU power needlessly (this one of the biggest reason why Steve Jobs hated Flash and Apple is trying to kill it).
Not to mention that even with Flash, you'd still need to know how to code to make a decent addon, anyway.
Basically what using Flash would mean for the end user is that we wouldn't be able to load nearly as many addons as we can in other MMOs, and the addons we did have would be much more likely to cause lag and memory issues. That's not good.
So while I can appreciate and understand SE's desire to make creating addons more visual and user-friendly for players, I don't think the high cost in CPU power can be justified, as it would make actually USING addons more of a headache than it should be.
So please reconsider using Flash, SE. The price isn't worth it.
About addons -- don't make them use Adobe Flash, please....
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02-25-2012, 05:32 PMRhianuAbout addons -- don't make them use Adobe Flash, please....
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02-25-2012, 08:34 PMSoukyuu
Apple being stupid and their user blindly following it aside, why would SE use flash? It doesn't make sense to use a web-oriented tech inside a game to me. If they want to make it more visual, all they have to do is to make a script language with an optional click interface (clicking scripts together)
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02-26-2012, 02:02 AMRydinYou're right.. THAT is one of the biggest reasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
Apple is definitely know for being selfless and altruistic
Apple fights for the little guy... They care about your computers efficiency
It couldn't have been because Apple prefers their proprietary multimedia platform "Quicktime"
I know, you're thinking why would Apple lash out at a competitor of one of its products
Steve Jobs was always a proponent of open source and freeware... it doesn't make sense
oh wait....
Just messin with ya... I get your point but using Apple and Jobs was a poor choice and a bad example -
02-26-2012, 06:52 PMtymora
.Net/WPF or Silverlight plugins will make my day...:p
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02-27-2012, 04:52 PMEruantienhear hear ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by tymora
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02-28-2012, 05:54 AMJinko
I agree using flash is a mistake, personally I think they should use Lua, many MMO players/addon programmers are used to this language.
More importantly than the language they use I hope they have a robust API planned so that players can make the most of addons. -
03-01-2012, 07:33 PMtymora
All they need is a properly documented C++ API. The community can handle the rest. (Wrappers for their favorite scripts and languages...etc)
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03-02-2012, 05:06 AMJinko
I'm talking about something like:-
http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API -
03-02-2012, 06:04 AMDeathgiver
Just to point out, we do have the PS3 limitation. As far as Iknow, the only 2 languages that the PS3 has native support for are Flash script and Java (don't quote me on that though). Obviously C++ is an option as long as SE is willing to do the work of signing and encrypting the add-ons, but let's face it, C++ is definitely not user friendly without a solid programming background.
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03-02-2012, 05:30 PMSaiph
PS3 wont get addons. so it doesnt matter what ps3 can or not.
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03-02-2012, 05:32 PMZenakuYep ps3 wont get addon but the best addon release for PC would be later remade and be release for ps3 and just added to the game itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiph
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03-02-2012, 06:16 PMSaiph
that doesnt change the fact, that it doesnt matter what the ps3 can or not.
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03-02-2012, 06:52 PMZenakuI think they said a few month ago what type of program going to be use for Addon.,Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiph
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03-02-2012, 11:35 PMRhianu
@Rydin
Actually, the reason why Apple is concerned about the CPU intensive nature of Flash is because the iPhone and iPad have significantly less CPU power than a desktop computer, so it really is a legitimate concern for the company.
And even though FFXIV is only available on PC (or at least addons will only be on PC), excessive CPU usage is still a concern because most people are likely going to be using several addons at once. The CPU intensive nature of Flash isn't too bad when you're just using it to watch a video, because in that circumstance you're only running one single Flash application. But addons will require the player to run multiple Flash applications simultaneously, which is going to make the excessive CPU usage very noticeable, even on a desktop computer.
Yes, they said they were considering Flash, which is why I made this topic. Using Flash isn't a good idea. SE should use something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
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03-03-2012, 01:09 AMRydinYou're right... Apple has all of it's customers best interest at heartQuote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
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03-04-2012, 10:10 AMRhianuWell, Steve Jobs always made it the goal of his company to create products that were as good as he could possibly make them. Though now that Steve Jobs is gone, whether or not the company will continue to hold to that philosophy remains to be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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03-05-2012, 05:28 AMtymoraAnd takes the chance to fleece the customers in the process. *Looks at Mac Pro options and pricing*Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
Regular players won't be the ones making the add-ons anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathgiver
Like I said, C++ can be wrapped in just about anything. I am sure some scripting support plugin will be available within weeks from someone. -
03-05-2012, 08:16 AMJinko
I'd be interested to see what kind of idea's people have for addons.
I would like to see :-
- healing frame addon, (left mouse cure, right mouse cura etc).
- something to sort inventory by durability and automate repairs with 1 click.
- dps meter
- Threat meter
I just hope the addon community is more like WoW than say LOTRO lol. -
03-05-2012, 09:30 AMRhianuI'm not too familiar with LotRO. What is the addon community like there, and why don't you want FFXIV to emulate them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
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03-05-2012, 01:00 PMRydin
On a personal note, I like my screen to stay pretty clear... so unless an add-on is EXTREMELY useful then I'll pass
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03-06-2012, 03:48 AMJinkoLast time I checked the addon community isn't very active, the addons in general aren't very useful either, I'm not sure this is due to the developers not allowing players access to specific functions or whether the community just isn't interested in making good addons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
It goes back to what I said about SE providing a good API so that addon developers can make specific calls to the server for data. (this is something they will need to build upon over the course of the game no doubt, hopefully they will have a sub-forum for addons)
I have hope that FFXIV will have good ones because windower was quite well made given its lack of support from SE.
I am the same, a lot of the addons I use in the past have been things which stay hidden unless you are doing specific functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
Something like an addon which can download the price history from the marketward, or one that can help manage gear when swapping between classes (I know they have something official planned for this)
Better inventory sorting functions etc. -
03-06-2012, 06:56 AMRydinI like that ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
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03-06-2012, 05:20 PMtymora
1) A better sorted inventory for certain. By tabs, categories, alphabetical...etc etc, by ascending/descending order...
2) Ability to right-click - Right now its left-click only.
3) More detailed logs on some stuff...like the actual stats/grade of materia you get.
4) Real time log parsers of all flavors
5) In-game recipe references.
6) Map annotations and markings.
7) Distance to target UI
8) Actual HP of target instead of a bar
9) Multiple enemy threat meters (for large fights like Moogle)
10) UI to show current target of party members (> /assist)
11) Log -> Website and Website <- Log chat forwarding
12) Longer action bars, multiple action bars
13) Community statistics projects (drop rates, chest treasure rates...etc) -
03-13-2012, 01:58 AMRhianuAn addon doesn't necessarily have to add an extra widget to the screen. Sometimes an addon will just change the way an existing widget functions, or automate certain tasks for you. Even if an addon does provide extra or additional data, that data can still be context sensitive so that it only appears when you need it and gets out of the way when you don't. So hypothetically speaking, it's actually entirety possible to have a ton of addons without adding any clutter to the screen at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
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03-13-2012, 03:45 AMRydinIn which case I'd be all for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Rhianu
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03-13-2012, 07:15 AMArathalionThis. Lua is very lightweight AND easy to learn, and can be adapted to pretty much anything they have in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
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03-15-2012, 07:43 AMMeskyanichi
Lua seems fine to me. I have never used it but a quick glance over the syntax and other resources makes it seem pretty simple to learn. Although I just that it doesn't really support the concept of "classes", you apparently can somehow emulate it. This reminds me of JavaScript, except that the syntax seems cleaner. However, speaking of JavaScript, using CoffeeScript (which compiles to JavaScript) you get very clean syntax to write JS. However, this might be too hard to set up for a lot of people that aren't developers.
Other dynamic languages might be interesting as well. To name two: Ruby and Python. Not sure whether they could be embedded in their add-on engine but these languages are easy to learn and are object-oriented. Although they are probably heavy-weight compared to Lua, but I'm not sure about that.
Regardless, Lua seems like a solid choice. If you check the wiki page under Applications ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_(pr...)#Applications ) you can see that great systems like iOS, Nginx and a pretty long list of other fairly big names, all incorporate Lua. It also states that it's used by many game programmers as a scripting language. So it sounds like its the way to go.
However, I will be disappointed if SE uses Flash, Silverlight, .NET, C# or similar languages/frameworks and/or it requires an IDE. I've experienced them first-hand and it's just horrible. If it does require any of these, then no addon's will be written with these hands, as these technologies just offend me as a unix-based programmer. I'll just end up using other people's add-ons. :) huehuehue!
UPDATE: After looking around a bit I came across this question over at StackOverflow. It's pretty interesting: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3...-game-language It states some opinions from actual game developers and other programmers that actually used the language in production. Turns out it IS in fact very lightweight, and more performant than Ruby or Python (or many other dynamic languages that are similar) due to this. It also appears to be very low on CPU/Memory usage, which is excellent of course.
To be honest if SE is doing an add-on system, they might as well do it right and use tools/languages that have been proven to do the job very well for existing systems. Why opt in for a crappy tool like Flash/ActionScript to code it? This is what will probably keep programmers with excellent programming skills, that program for a living, away from building good addons for the community.