Broken Market Board by Rich Players.

Is it just me or is anyone else struggling to sell and make money on the market board due to rich player buying out and controlling the prices of items in Cerberus?

I have recently been trying to sell some of the more expensive items such as the ruffled skirts but have been bullied out of selling it by a player that buys all the cointe cloth and leaves only the expensive ones available.

This very same person and there FC members control all of the high level crafting items and making it impossible for anyone to sell even one thing. Am I the only person who is experiencing this issue? and if not, what can be done to make the market board a more fair place again?

Once world visit is implemented later this year you will be able to travel to other worlds and buy from their market boards, so you might see prices falling as the people who control the limited markets lose their captive audience. They will only be able to sell on their home world's market board so the increased competition may force them to stop price gouging.

In the short term, there's little you can do unless you invest the time to acquire all the mats yourself. They aren't really breaking any rules unless someone catches them botting (which never seems to get punished anyway) so there's nothing to stop them from forcing out competition.

I foresee this problem becoming worse when you have numerous bored, multi-billionaire bot farmers who need something to do with their excess gil that can now server hop to clean out every market board instead of just their's.

No there is no way to make things fair really. There are two parties who can control the market board in this game they are Rich players and Omni Crafters/gatherers. If one decides to control the MB then anyone who is not part of one of those sides will struggle to profit off the MB. Best you can do is hope that they loosen up their grasp on the Market at some point so people like yourself can make money..

The best way to make it fair would be like ffxi's AH system. It didn't list the prices, it just picked up the lowest priced item.
Yes, there was "bidding" involved, But you won't see a price drop from from 100k to 5k in a few hours.
Possibly one of the most frustrating things in this game honestly.

Over the past 20 years I have played many of the major MMO's. While FFXIV's market system is not the worst, it is not the best. One problem is the limited number of slot to sell limits competition. I think the best market system is what EQ2 uses - but it also has the issue of listings never expire, so junk can stay up for months. But as far as "the rich people" owning the market, not so sure - anyone can undercut them, and they are subject to the same slot limits as El Noobie is.

One thing I would like to see is the ability to set up BUYS, and not just sells.

Was just speaking about this with my wife. I am very fond of RuneScape's market board system. It is called "The Grand Exchange." That game is dated and barely playable for me now, but the market is done wonderfully. I really wish they adopt something similar here. It works like this:

If you place 1000 items up for sell in a stack, you can sell any amount from said stack without needing to sell the whole stack. Then it will keep trying to sell your items until the stack is all gone.
You can also sell something for a price that you set(lets say 1k) and if anyone is willing to buy said item(s) for 1k it compares possible transactions and if you match it runs the transaction for you.(even if you or the buyer are offline)
If you are buying for 1k and somebody offers said item for 900, you get your transaction items but also your excess (100 in this case) back.
It doesnt show sellers or buyers or even whats available 'now.' They only things you see are current average price for an item listing, and if it is sold/bought yet.

Ive noticed prices there dont seem to fluctuate nearly as much as they have in any other games I've played. Unfortunately Yoshida has basically said he cares nothing at all for crafters, gatherers or the market. I dont remember the exact quote he used, but I do know not to expect anything noteworthy.

If anything needs to be implemented it's a warning prompt if you try to post more than 5% below current lowest price and a flat out block on posting lower than 10% below lowest market price. There are too many fools who seem intent on crashing every market known to man and Miqo'te and it is seriously annoying. Where is the sense in taking an item that sells like clockwork at say 5k each and crashing the price to 500 gil? Everybody loses apart from that one rich guy who can afford to buy out every single item and correct prices. Yes I hear the free market argument, but even a free market needs protecting from idiots.

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

... and a flat out block on posting lower than 10% below lowest market price.

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That sounds like a REALLY bad idea. Another game I played long ago had some features like that, and what happened is that prices went up, some by several hundred percent. The market in this game is not active enough for anyone to crash the market. If you don't like their prices, buy it and resell it.

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

If anything needs to be implemented it's a warning prompt if you try to post more than 5% below current lowest price and a flat out block on posting lower than 10% below lowest market price. There are too many fools who seem intent on crashing every market known to man and Miqo'te and it is seriously annoying. Where is the sense in taking an item that sells like clockwork at say 5k each and crashing the price to 500 gil? Everybody loses apart from that one rich guy who can afford to buy out every single item and correct prices. Yes I hear the free market argument, but even a free market needs protecting from idiots.

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Who are you to get to decide what prices should be? It's up to the individual seller to place a value on what they're selling.

Even with your system I could get around it easily if I wanted to crash a market simply by playing leapfrog between characters. Character A posts item for 100 gil. Switch to character B and post same item for 90gil. Switch back to character A to post for 81gil and so on until I get the item to the price I want to sell it for.

Some players sell low simply because they want the item out of their inventory, not because they're trying to crash the market. It's the people who panic over being undercut that cause the problem when leaving your item at your preferred price will usually lead to it being sold at that price. I go through that all the time with the chocobo feed and color fruits I sell to raise gil for my alt's FC. Sometimes someone comes along and undercuts me, everyone else panics and does the same but I leave mine alone and a day or two later they've sold at my preferred price. If they don't start selling again within a few days, then I'll check the current prices. It could be that the available supply is too high and I'm better off pulling mine off the MB for a week before listing again. Certainly I stop growing more and switch to other items while I wait.

If you think the listed price is too low, buy up that item and resell it for the price you think it's worth. If you keep getting undercut, then your price is likely too high compared to the demand for that item.

If demand is high, the low cost items will clear out quickly and people will start paying up the price ladder. Having a panic attack and immediately undercutting in retaliation is what screws things up. The Chinese farmers gonna get their gil - you can't win, and trying makes things worse for you.

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Originally Posted by Norvagon

Am I the only person who is experiencing this issue? and if not, what can be done to make the market board a more fair place again?

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Do maps and sell Cointe? This guy is creating a high demand on the cloth for you.

To be fair, Cointe is a moderately rare map drop and few people are running those lately, so the supply will have a limit. It's not hard for a handful of crafters to exhaust the materials. Then, this person is limited to the number of Cointe that go on sale and can only sell as the same speed as the demand for the Ruffled Skirts. He won't rake in billions off Skirts alone.

I'd advise to step onto a less complex market. Rakshasa, Onishi, Yamashi for example is much smoother to sell due to higher demand and ease of obtaining the materials. Same with popular furniture and lots of others. Browse the markets, see which of these are at a high price (it varies a lot) and jump in. Don't stick to an unprofitable market.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Who are you to get to decide what prices should be? It's up to the individual seller to place a value on what they're selling.

Even with your system I could get around it easily if I wanted to crash a market simply by playing leapfrog between characters. Character A posts item for 100 gil. Switch to character B and post same item for 90gil. Switch back to character A to post for 81gil and so on until I get the item to the price I want to sell it for.

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Well that would certainly make it harder for you to tank prices wouldn't it! Don't know if it's just my server but it seems that EVERY lucrative market gets crashed because out of nowhere 20 people start posting the item, each making a massive undercut until it's barely above NPC price. It makes absolutely no sense... Take for instance ancient lumber. Not a regular seller, but still a nice little earner on the side. For a few days I was selling at around 20k per unit. Now a bunch of no brain morons have come in and spam posted tons of it and the price is now under 6k and dropping fast. This happens to every single item, whether gear, materials or house items. There's too much of it to be worth buying out and I am not trying to dominate markets and become the richest cat on the server.
I just want to make a decent amount so as I can afford to gear my crafters when I finally get them to 70. But with such idiotic behaviour from people doing so is near impossible because literally nothing sells unless you price it so low that it may as well just be discarded/vendored. Hence in my mind the need for some form of constraints to protect against stupidity in both directions. Can't gouge it above 50% of monthly average, can't crash below 75% of monthly average.

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

Where is the sense in taking an item that sells like clockwork at say 5k each and crashing the price to 500 gil?

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If I would want to be nice to some poor sods and make good stuff available for cheap, then why shouldn't I be able to do so?
The Market Board isn't primarily there to let people get rich.

Besides, one person can't make the market prices crash unless they flood the MB with items. The prices only crash if a lot of other people also lower their prices like a bunch of mindless lemmings.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

If I would want to be nice to some poor sods and make good stuff available for cheap, then why shouldn't I be able to do so?
The Market Board isn't primarily there to let people get rich.

Besides, one person can't make the market prices crash unless they flood the MB with items. The prices only crash if a lot of other people also lower their prices like a bunch of mindless lemmings.

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You do realise that the item won't sell any quicker at 50% reduction compared to a 1gil undercut unless somebody happens to be scanning for cheap items to resell. If your item doesn't sell to said MB camper within a few minutes then begins the race to rock bottom. 10 people come along, each knocking 1-10% off the price and before you know it all the people above you have further crashed the price. So all you achieve with your attempt at altruism is either triggering a price war that screws everyone out of a lot of money or you help to make a rich bellcamper even richer. If I want to be helpful I shout in town that I am giving away a stack of an item to clear space, I usually don't even charge for it and in the process I hopefully help someone get their crafting up a little bit while at the same time leaving the marketboard to remain a source of income.

It's a simple fact that the market in this game is actually pretty small compared to some MMO's. Given that, there are many items with low demand for any of several reasons - I see items in the sales history list that have been selling for 3 to 10 a month. The problem is often the same as in real life - oversupply and low demand. If nobody wants to buy something, it will not sell no matter how low the price (until it reaches desynthesis status perhaps). Asking for fixed prices is just ridiculous, and has never worked in games or in real life.

It's more or less an open market. It's fair yet unfair, similar to real markets. You have to be smart about what you sell and when you sell it. It's also a well known tactic to buy low priced items and resell at a higher price, always skirting the accepted market value. Check back on yer sales often and adjust pricing as necessary. If the crafted item market is saturated...sell mats, since clearly there's going to be a large consumer base. As both a crafter and a gatherer I can tell you we all get lazy and will punch the MB fer mats quite a bit, really depends on my time budget.

when the world visiting system is implemented it was already stated you cant buy from the places you visit.

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Originally Posted by Acelyn

when the world visiting system is implemented it was already stated you cant buy from the places you visit.

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I think it was stated the opposite. You CAN buy from places you visit. You just can't sell.

https://i.imgur.com/sdpMPSl.png

Another example of extreme stupidity, sales history shows between 65k and 80k. I have sold many at 70k myself... then just ONE idiot ruins it for everyone.

This is a problem on Cerberus, yes, I can confirm and know who you might be referring to. Each time a certain item nears a price I can afford it at, they go and buy all of it - and keep the market even with their price, I know all of their retainer names by now.

But at the end of the day, it's not violating any of the terms, so there's nothing we can do. (Just want to let that person know I seriously dislike them.)

Is it stupid? What is the actual cost to make those Stalls? And how many sell per day or per week - low demand for a product can drive prices down drastically.

And I occasionally put items up way below market just to dump them - if something has been sitting there on the retainer for two weeks and not moved, it's time to make space.

that vegetable stall is wayyyyy overcharged...considering the cost it sould have been 10k, 20k at best
it is in fact 16k in my server (30k on the first day

Vegetable stall on Coeurl 73K atm, but only about 5 sales a week. A situation ripe for undercutting.

There are so many times ive went to sell items, checked the price and noticed the item posted for Lower than its actual Value. So i'll scoop them up and NPC them. But when that happens with an item that normally sells way higher, its annoying.
Lets say an item has a value is 198g. It normally sells for 10k. There are 5 up, listed at 10k, 10k, 10k 9.8k and 600g.

Situations like this drive me crazy, because there is no need to price it so low. If you posted it at 9k it would still sell before anything else, and there is much less of a profit then NPCing it.

But lets be honest, the whole Purpose of the AH is to make money. Yes some people will be more "greedy" than others, and most things are subjective price wise, an item that may only cost 20k to make, can sell for 100k, and that's Not unreasonable. If there is no other way to get said item, and you haven't leveled the craft yourself, then that's the price you pay.
Everyone CAN level crafting/gathering. Its a choice if you don't.

What just drive me crazy is an item will sell for 25k consistently, i'll place 1 item for sale at 24995, i come back 2 hours later and there was 12 of them posted at 600g. There is just no need for such undercutting. And the only reason it is so prevelant, is because everyone can see the prices then need to beat to sell first.

At least in XI the sell price wasn't listed, so even if someone sold something so low, the person would likely bid 24k.

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Originally Posted by Windsun33

One thing I would like to see is the ability to set up BUYS, and not just sells.

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This could work. I bet you'd have to set up buys through your retainer and to avoid congestion could only set up a few buys per retainer, like 10-20. This way you'd get more reliable profit from selling your stuff and it'd be easier to see which items sell.

One major Warframe trading site uses buyer and seller offers both and it seems to work very well even though it's not affiliated with the main game company.

Making this move would likely be profitable for SE since people would want more retainers to be able to set up more buys and sells. I know I'd enjoy it.

It's not an issue. There are countless things you can be selling, and because retainers have limited MB slots and addons aren't allowed, there's a practical limit to how much any one person can sell. If you don't find you can make a profit with one item, move on and try a different item. I have well over 100 mil and I definitely eat markets at times, but I still have to deal with competition and replacement cost like anyone else. I started out with nothing like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Windsun33

That sounds like a REALLY bad idea. Another game I played long ago had some features like that, and what happened is that prices went up, some by several hundred percent. The market in this game is not active enough for anyone to crash the market. If you don't like their prices, buy it and resell it.

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Indeed. It would be so easy to buy up all the reasonably priced goods and then repost at 2000% of that price and then no one would be able to ever being it back down. You would end all marketboard auctions for that item.

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

Another example of extreme stupidity, sales history shows between 65k and 80k. I have sold many at 70k myself... then just ONE idiot ruins it for everyone.

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For the seller, but for buyers with less gil this system is ballin'

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

https://i.imgur.com/sdpMPSl.png

Another example of extreme stupidity, sales history shows between 65k and 80k. I have sold many at 70k myself... then just ONE idiot ruins it for everyone.

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You know every post youre making just makes it look like you're the one in the bad right?

Calling people idiots for undercutting etc. etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

https://i.imgur.com/sdpMPSl.png

Another example of extreme stupidity, sales history shows between 65k and 80k. I have sold many at 70k myself... then just ONE idiot ruins it for everyone.

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Since it's been said that those stalls are easy to make, there is nothing wrong with selling them at 30k. Selling them for 80k is greedy.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Since it's been said that those stalls are easy to make, there is nothing wrong with selling them at 30k. Selling them for 80k is greedy.

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Yeah. I've seen some really early level crafts sold on Mateus for like 5x the price on a server with more crafters. It's not like it uses materials from Uznair or something.

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Originally Posted by ElianaGoldstein

https://i.imgur.com/sdpMPSl.png

Another example of extreme stupidity, sales history shows between 65k and 80k. I have sold many at 70k myself... then just ONE idiot ruins it for everyone.

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Aggressively undercut it down to cost a bit at a time and prevent anyone else from selling one until they're basically eating dirt to undercut you. That will clear out the market.

It's a fact that there are always some items on MB that are hugely overpriced. One that I recently sold a bunch of had a few listed in the 300K range. They cost me perhaps 30 min and 5K to make 6 of them. So far 4 out of 6 have sold for 160K in 3 days. Previous history shows that about 3-4 per month were being sold - which tells me you cannot always go by the past history for pricing.

I have noticed that certain materials on the MB (Most commonly the drops specific to ARR dungeons needed to make furniture/glams) have a trend of being bought out enmass by specific individuals on my server, even though they aren't re-selling said items or the things made with them.

I'm not sure what the thought process behind this behavior is.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I have noticed that certain materials on the MB (Most commonly the drops specific to ARR dungeons needed to make furniture/glams) have a trend of being bought out enmass by specific individuals on my server, even though they aren't re-selling said items or the things made with them.

I'm not sure what the thought process behind this behavior is.

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...could be that they're buying mats for personal use...

Or they could be someone who offers their services in housing decoration, not exactly something listable on the marketboard.

Hoarding is another option, especially when prices get cheap for certain items.

Things Belah'dian glass end up being used in quantities because who's going to only make one lamp when they're decorating (as an example.)

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I have noticed that certain materials on the MB (Most commonly the drops specific to ARR dungeons needed to make furniture/glams) have a trend of being bought out enmass by specific individuals on my server, even though they aren't re-selling said items or the things made with them.

I'm not sure what the thought process behind this behavior is.

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I buy up items needed to make chocobo bardings and then give away those bardings to my FC members. Whether they choose to use the barding or resell it is up to them.

I also occasionally buy up large quantities of materials to make other items to giveaway to them as well.

There are any number of reasons why the materials might be getting purchased without an equivalent finished product making it's way back to the market board.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I have noticed that certain materials on the MB (Most commonly the drops specific to ARR dungeons needed to make furniture/glams) have a trend of being bought out enmass by specific individuals on my server, even though they aren't re-selling said items or the things made with them.

I'm not sure what the thought process behind this behavior is.

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Reselling is a game best played over the course of months, not days.

What is worse is ppl who buy out things on the mb and artificially raise the price. Just had this happen on sarg awhile ago. Gyr Albanian plait was an average of 700k. Same person bought them all up, put them back up at 10m, then used another character to buy them to create a past sale record and then put them back up at 10m each again. This was all done over the course of about 40 minutes (I was watching as I was going to buy one for an alt). Its taken weeks for the price to return to somewhat normal and they are still at around 2m.