Etymology of 'nameday'

I noticed that in many areas, people use the term nameday instead of birthday.

The two seem to be interchangeable, but the only time that birthday is mentioned is in the Azim Steppe, an area which has different beliefs. In this case, the word birthday would refer to the day on which one is born.

Could it be that there were at one time cultural differences that caused the divergence in names, and gradually they grew to mean one and the same? Perhaps at one point, it truly meant the day on which a name was given to a person (in the sight of the Twelve), but later was changed to mean the day on which one was born.

Or might the cultural differences still persist, and now there exist "non-persons" in Eorzea who have no nameday? The term nameday does seem to draw reference from Christianity, after all.

I personally believe the latter, but would like confirmation of if this is the case. But if so, what would be needed for one to be officially named - to have a nameday?

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Originally Posted by ScootPatoot

But if so, what would be needed for one to be officially named - to have a nameday?

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In RL cultures, the criteria is generally to survive until a given (arbitrary) age, ranging from a few weeks to months to a year or two. It's usually a holdover from histories of high infant mortality.

I would assume (with no evidence other than my own headcanon) that as time went on and neonatal healthcare improved, one's birthday and nameday gradually became the same.

A curious question! I vaguely knew it was a real-world custom in some places, and in the context of the game I'd pictured it must be some kind of custom for Eorzean / Twelve-worshipping-religion (do we have an actual term for that?) which might celebrate the equivalent of a christening rather than their actual birth, with a formal declaration of their name and perhaps patron deity at that point. And that could be seen as more significant than their actual birth.

Have we seen any Far Eastern characters use the term "nameday" or is it only Eorzeans?


Having actually looked up "name day" now, it's not related to when the person was given their individual name, but a designated date for each name - usually based on a calendar of saints. That's not really going to work for Eorzea with all its different races and naming conventions, unless each one keeps its own register of names.

The article on given names and naming ceremonies do say that they were traditionally given at baptism rather than birth, which I think is what I was remembering.

In Eorzea, Nameday does appear mean the same thing as Birthday.

Evidenced by the Custom Deliveries questline for Zhloe, wherein one of the delivery requests is based on the fact that Khloe was sad that her friend didn't have a Nameday because she didn't know her parents (So she was told she could share her Nameday with her friend so they could both receive gifts)

After which she goes on to say that all other kids that come to the orphanage who didn't have a Nameday would be able to share hers.

Meaning that, there are likely quite a few people living in Eorzea who don't have Namedays, especially after the Calamity (Which would have killed a lot of people leaving orphans who may be too young to remember what day was celebrated as their Nameday), but whom still actually have names.

Ironically, it would have made more sense for the term "Nameday" to appear IN the Azim Steppe, given that the Dotharl literally have a basis of naming based on waiting until it's apparent to whom has been "Reincarnated" and thus giving them back their name (Thus suggesting that the "Birth" is not as relevant because it's just the same soul as from countless previous generations of incarnations of the same person, but rather the day they take up their name is more relevant)

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Originally Posted by Kalise

.Ironically, it would have made more sense for the term "Nameday" to appear IN the Azim Steppe, given that the Dotharl literally have a basis of naming based on waiting until it's apparent to whom has been "Reincarnated" and thus giving them back their name (Thus suggesting that the "Birth" is not as relevant because it's just the same soul as from countless previous generations of incarnations of the same person, but rather the day they take up their name is more relevant)

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I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. You are right that they probably don't "receive" a name until it's "remembered", but that's just it, in their culture that individual already has a name it's just not known to the tribe/world yet. It's the equivalent of meeting a stranger, they already have a name, you just don't know it. In that case the birth is more important, since to was the day they were reborn, and would be used to chronicle that individual's lifecycles.

Azim Steppe aside, within the context of Eorzea Namesday and Birthday are the same thing. This fits inline with a major fantasy trope of "renaming" oneself and thus you are "reborn". Sometimes used with amnesiac to asign then a birthday as well.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

In Eorzea, Nameday does appear mean the same thing as Birthday.

Evidenced by the Custom Deliveries questline for Zhloe, wherein one of the delivery requests is based on the fact that Khloe was sad that her friend didn't have a Nameday because she didn't know her parents (So she was told she could share her Nameday with her friend so they could both receive gifts)

After which she goes on to say that all other kids that come to the orphanage who didn't have a Nameday would be able to share hers.

Meaning that, there are likely quite a few people living in Eorzea who don't have Namedays, especially after the Calamity (Which would have killed a lot of people leaving orphans who may be too young to remember what day was celebrated as their Nameday), but whom still actually have names.

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So then, why would it be called nameday in Eorzea to this day, if it functions the same as a birthday? It seems like we're missing something that caused the term nameday to be used rather than birthday at one point if this is the case. How did the word come to be used, and how did its meaning change to what it is today?

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Originally Posted by ScootPatoot

So then, why would it be called nameday in Eorzea to this day, if it functions the same as a birthday? It seems like we're missing something that caused the term nameday to be used rather than birthday at one point if this is the case. How did the word come to be used, and how did its meaning change to what it is today?

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There is nothing to indicate that nameday and birthday mean the same thing, is there?
Nameday seems to reference the day a person got their name, which may or may not be the same day they were born.

It was probably because of in earlier times where a newborn child was baptised into the church, their name was not actually chosen until the baptism itself, which, especially in more isolated areas it was often not possible for people to get to a priest in order to conduct those rites until weeks or even months after the birth, meaning a newborn would have no name in the meantime.

And because of the religious aspects of baptism (that person isn't known by a deity until they're officially given the rites) it's easy to see how a nameday gained more prominience than the actual birth, because socially at least, that person did not exist in the eyes of God (or gods, for non Juedo-Christian cultures which practiced similar religious rites) until they were baptised into the church and given a baptised name, literally, their 'naming day', and thus, did not exist socially either.

Hence why in fantasy stories it's used as something synonymous with 'birthday', even though the two are different concepts.

Now bare in mind I have no actual citations for this, so if anyone has proof to the contrary, please, by all means share! :D

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

There is nothing to indicate that nameday and birthday mean the same thing, is there?
Nameday seems to reference the day a person got their name, which may or may not be the same day they were born.

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Kalise mentioned that a custom deliveries quest referred to orphans who had names but not namedays.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

There is nothing to indicate that nameday and birthday mean the same thing, is there?
Nameday seems to reference the day a person got their name, which may or may not be the same day they were born.

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Whereas the term "birthday" is only used in a singular quest in all of FFXIV (Welcome to the Family), the term "nameday" shows up at least five or six dozen times and as far as I can tell, is used in a way that we, IRL, would use "birthday".

Galfrid: "You may as well be strolling around in your nameday suit. Come back when you've acquired some sturdier gear."
Alphinaud: "Well, if you recall, you yourself emerged from the Lifestream as naked as your nameday. It is a scene I shall never forget─"

There are also nameday gifts, choosing your nameday in CC, and a variety of other instances where the phrase pops up. While this could have been a different day from your actual birth date at one point in history, the way in which the term is used today appears to be synonymous with one's actual birthday. If anything, this might be simply hashed up to the Localization team using Nameday as a fantasy replacement term for birthday, similar to sennight for week despite an Eorzean week being 8 days.

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Originally Posted by Sounsyy

While this could have been a different day from your actual birth date at one point in history, the way in which the term is used today appears to be synonymous with one's actual birthday.

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I disagree that it makes them synonymous. It makes them equivalent - Eorzeans celebrate a person's nameday, and view it as the significant "anniversary" of a person, in the way that we would a birthday.

That does not mean that the Eorzean meaning has shifted to refer to celebrating a person's birthday, unless a different cultural shift has meant that people are named immediately upon their birth instead of waiting for whatever hypothetical naming ceremony they practice.

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Originally Posted by ScootPatoot

So then, why would it be called nameday in Eorzea to this day, if it functions the same as a birthday? It seems like we're missing something that caused the term nameday to be used rather than birthday at one point if this is the case. How did the word come to be used, and how did its meaning change to what it is today?

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It's likely due to dialect and not really having a reason to change to the word "Birthday".

Much like how they use "Anon" instead of "Soon"

Eorzea likes to mix together a lot of archaic English terms with their own fantasy terms (I.e. Ilms, Yalms, Malms)

It's use, likely started in a similar way to how it was used in our own timeline, dating back to before healthcare was to a standard where infants were likely to survive until teens/adulthood. With it naturally progressing to being the same as a birthday when names were given at birth because of more modernized medicine (Or, more likely in Eorzea, widespread practice of one of a number of healing magics)

The assumption is that people are named immediately upon their birth or very shortly thereafter. Otherwise the IRL-inspired phrases "naked as your nameday" or "nameday suit" make absolutely no sense. That's why I pulled those quotes specifically.

Other quotes can be viewed in either light. Nameday celebration can easily just mean the anniversary of the day you were named. Nameday gifts, nameday cake, etc - while meant to evoke thoughts of birthday festivities - can all probably just as easily mean the anniversary of the day a baby is named. The aforementioned phrases don't fit that bill, however. They imply the way babies exit the womb, naked.

So again, while nameday and birthday may have once been separate occasions at some unspecified point in history, the way the term "nameday" is used in game suggests the term means the day someone was born.

Right, the two terms seem to be interchangeable in meaning in game to the present day in the in-game universe. I'm simply curious as to how and when the word's meaning evolved over time, if it did.

The idea of healing magic having something to do with it is an interesting one! After all, Hydaelyn is a fairly hostile place!

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And because of the religious aspects of baptism (that person isn't known by a deity until they're officially given the rites) it's easy to see how a nameday gained more prominience than the actual birth, because socially at least, that person did not exist in the eyes of God (or gods, for non Juedo-Christian cultures which practiced similar religious rites) until they were baptised into the church and given a baptised name, literally, their 'naming day', and thus, did not exist socially either.

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Funny thing about that, at least until (I believe) John Paul II declared Limbo non-existent, it was believed that the souls of unbaptised children would go to Limbo for all eternity upon death, because they were not accepted into Christianity. Hence the practice to baptise babies as soon as possible (given that being baptised puts you in church records and means you're an official member of the church, some people don't like the practice BECAUSE of it, thinking it forces their children into something they may not agree with, especially with mixed-faith marriages).

What Iscah mentioned about namedays is known (at least in Mexico, not sure if in Spanish-speaking countries at large) as the "Dia de tu Santo" ("your Saint's day"), basically, yes, a day where a Saint is celebrated and the happy coincidence if you share the same name (normally because people were named AFTER said Saints), but...it's not really celebrated anymore because...well, it's a pain...

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Originally Posted by ScootPatoot

I noticed that in many areas, people use the term nameday instead of birthday.

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In my country we have separate days for birthday and nameday. Birthday is when you are born, and nameday is a specific day in the year which (in most cases) is marked in calendars. So I kind of never assumed it was the same thing.