Fordola and Gaius - Past/Future

(This is from a post I put together a while ago on tumblr, so if there's weird formatting, I'm sorry. I tried to adapt it to forum stuff)

So, this started out at FanFest with the Gaius cosplayer and I (Fordola cosplayer) musing about where the two characters would be in Stormblood, and how amusing it’d be to see them on camera together, because…

• ruthless pragmatists, the pair of them,
• the potential for needling their allies (or one another) to a horrific extent,
• their views on the Garlean Empire, and how they’ve changed.
• A friend, after I mentioned this conversation to him, pointed out that Fordola’s entire surname and her Ala Mhigan unit were both referencing Gaius’ ‘Black Wolf’ moniker, so it wasn’t as if Gaius was an unknown quantity to her.

This led to me squinting a bit, looking up the 4.1 cutscenes, and realizing that it’s entirely possible, probable even, that Gaius and Fordola have already met off-camera.

In the flashback the WoL and Arenvald witness…

• Fordola’s mother tells her to hurry up or they’ll miss meeting the Imperial Viceroy.
• Fordola’s father clarifies, after Fordola asks what “Lord Gaius” is like: “Lord Gaius is a great and honorable man who looks after all of Ala Mhigo. He’s very busy, and if we don’t hurry, we’ll miss our chance to see him.”
• This could be interpreted in a few ways, but Fordola’s surname (either chosen or granted to her) hints that it’s more, that her father knew Gaius (and possibly fed him information before the Occupation, possibly as a way to survive Theodoric).

So, her ‘rem Lupis’ surname could be one (or more, because both she and Gaius tend to have multiple reasons for doing what they do, and twisty ones to boot) of the following things:

• was 'Lupis' as a surname given to all the honorary citizen-collaborators? But it doesn't seem like it...
• hero-worship of Gaius as a Garlean commander who actually valued Eorzean races equally on merit,
• a calculated slap by teenaged-Fordola to the Garleans (who thought she was little more than a savage) and the Ala Mhigans (you want to call me a traitor, fine, I will EMBRACE THE LABEL by taking a surname referencing the leader of them here!)
• Or (and this one both has canon precedent and grants a hilarious mental image)…
• Gaius attempting to give Fordola some sort of power/protection, because no matter what that Imperial Guard did, I genuinely can’t see him being willing to allow a useful collaborator be stoned to death protecting a future Imperial citizen, and so Fordola’s father’s death would have left Fordola and her mother as (in the end) his responsibility. (And it’s not like he hasn’t shown that he’s willing to take on responsibility for subordinates who have lost their fathers, as witness his essentially raising Cid after Midas nan Garlond went off the deep-end; also, Livia sas Junius, though that one has... creepier implications).

(The hilarious mental image is Gaius having to deal with Fordola as a kid except then it’s not really hilarious because Fordola’d be a very angry, sad kid by the time she and her mother wound up under his aegis.) But that in itself led to another realization:

Gaius and Fordola use the same gunblade style. This could be passed off as standard training, except we see Regula van Hydrus use entirely different movesets in the Aetherochemical Research Facility, but uses the basics the same way, so this may be moot.

• Fordola uses the same flame-patch AoE in the Stormblood 4.0 MSQ that Gaius uses in the Praetorium in 2.X MSQ.
• Gaius uses the Terminus Est ability in both the Praetorium, and a much more powerful version in the 4.3 MSQ. Fordola uses this in the 4.0 MSQ vs. the WoL, and later the WoL and Lyse just prior to her capture.
• Fordola does not hesitate to take the gunblade when offered it by Zenos, meaning she’s had training in its use.
• Notable because: the Gunblade is a uniquely Garlean weapon (so we’ve seen so far, at least); Eorzeans under Garlean command tend to be given more brute-force magitech (Grynewalht, Rhitahtyn, NPCs in Garlean dungeons) or favour their own Eorzean weapons/magics. This reads as Fordola being given training by someone who no Garlean could really gainsay training her…
• … and it fits Gaius’ pragmatism to train an angry Ala Mhigan kid whose father was his subordinate, and for whose death Gaius bears responsibility. Focus that anger towards training, towards the Ala Mhigans: outlet, and useful tool in one.
• I’d have to look at the timeline to see if it actually works, though. Fordola’s 19 as of Stormblood, and seems to be 5-6 in the flashback; Gaius toppling Ala Mhigo was ~20 years before the current date.

To sum all of this up…

• Fordola rem Lupis probably knows Gaius van Baelsar, aka The Black Wolf, fairly well.
• Gaius may have felt somewhat responsible for Fordola when she was a kid, due to her father’s manner of death (essentially when he was a citizen of the Empire, protecting a future, productive citizen, and Gaius being a responsible Viceroy and canonically unbiased towards Eorzeans and very much a meritocrat)
• He granted her (and her mother) citizenship and may have interceded to get Fordola trained on weapons she wouldn’t have been able to learn without him, if he didn’t do so himself.

Comments from a friend:

I wonder how much of that was who he had on staff. Gaius cultivated Cid, and when Cid left, Nero, and both of them are very much engineers and inventors in the big clanking machinery mode, with a specialty in Allagan tech. One of the few bits of bio research we know happened under him got shut down because he thought it was dubious and unethical. (The Black Rose.)

(Though we know the Allagans were pretty into biological manipulation themselves, I don’t think Nero ever focuses on that side of things, despite being involved in the Crystal tower questline where their genetic engineering muckery is on display)

(I wonder if Arenvald is one of the Scions getting knocked out by the…whatever at the end of 4.4, which might make Fordola invested in what’s going on a in a grumpy “Not my friend or anything I just don’t want to fight gods without backup” way.)

Back to my comments

Yeah, the thing with Gaius is that he IS ethical, in his own definition of such, and honorable, so I’m not sure his reaction to Zenos’ methods and personality.

(I was going to say, ‘even a Zenos untainted by Ascian influence’, but given Solus, that seems utterly impossible from birth)

Nero definitely focuses on the mechanical engineering side of things as noted, and it was Urianger rather than Cid who came up with the device to foil Fordola’s Resonant eye, so more magic than Science, there…

Going back to Gaius though, he was willing to subjugate magic to technology using Allagan fusions of such (Ultima Weapon, despite Lahabrea’s use of Gaius as a pawn to awaken its core, was an example of such willingness), but I am curious about his post-Stormblood opinions, since he’s allied himself with Eorzean (?) Magic users (aside from Alphinaud being under his protection at the moment– huh, there’s another mark towards both his pragmatism and his ease with handling hypercompetent teenagers and picking up strays)

... anyway, getting back to Gaius and magitek vs. aether-based magic, I wonder if the best analogy is someone who can’t sing but studies voice: he may not be able to manipulate aether himself, but he has to know how it works due to hunting (seemingly successfully? Going by the Ascian masks on his belt?) Ascians, plus his past life as the Viceroy. He’s certainly not the type to underestimate or fail to try to understand the people he had to rule and their capabilities. Point being: Gaius probably Knows His Shit regarding aether.

Two more patches with MSQ! I am pretty aware that all of this is conjecture re: Fordola but I do love her as a character and hope they pick up her story thread.

Oh man, I love Arenvald and really hope he hasn’t fallen prey to the coma thing, but… You’re right, he probably would, and that WOULD piss Fordola off.

(that’s another thought… How does Fordola’s Resonant eye interact with the message going out to those with the Echo?)

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Originally Posted by Uruki

Gaius and Fordola use the same gunblade style. This could be passed off as standard training, except we see Regula van Hydrus use entirely different movesets in the Aetherochemical Research Facility, but uses the basics the same way, so this may be moot.

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I feel like pointing out that Regula's style only differs when he wields The Bastard, his personal weapon. When we fight him in Azys Lla, he utilizes all of the same skills as Gaius (and even borrows his theme song, which is ultimately Nael's sans vocals but plus violin) In fact, in our first tussle with Regula, he uses all of Gaius' skills. Ceruleum fire patch, Terminus Est, Hand of the Empire, Innocence, etc.

There is, disappointingly, a bit of overlap when it comes to prominent gunblade users. I personally was really disappointed that Fordola picked up a gunblade from Zenos and immediately used Terminus Est when the first Lore Book mentions it's an exceedingly difficult technique to master. However, I do concede that it's possible Fordola had training beforehand... but it never struck me as such the first time I read 4.0.

Her lack of hesitation in taking the gunblade could also be read as a sort of ... happiness? She was fully glad to be recognized by the legatus. Furthermore, I think any trepidation or hesitation to accept a gift from someone as unhinged as Zenos would've been a severe misstep. I think her acceptance of it is less a comment on her familiarity with the weapon than what it symbolizes.

I think it'd be more unreasonable to think Gaius didn't know Fordola. I'm not entirely convinced he had a personal touch in her life, but without a doubt he signed off on the Crania Lupii. However, given the 4.1 dialogue you've posted I'm more given to think her family might've not known him personally in any way. If the father had previous direct contact with Gaius I'd feel it'd be "miss YOUR chance to meet him" rather than OUR. But that's me splitting hairs. Highlanders tending to choose surname/battle epithets to go by, her choosing LUPIS to fully throw her weight behind the Black Wolf is a definite thing.

I went back to try to find dates for the founding of the Crania Lupii again and got lost and forgot my train of thought, but:

How does Fordola's Resonant Eye interact with the Calling? I'm not sure it would? The people who've been called are prominent members of the Scions. Of those affected, that we know of, we're the only one with the Echo. It'd be nice to say that the Echo is what's preventing our soul from being stripped from our bodies wholly, but that doesn't explain Alisaie, who most definitely lacks the Echo and has resisted the Calling as often as we have, so far.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

I feel like pointing out that Regula's style only differs when he wields The Bastard, his personal weapon. When we fight him in Azys Lla, he utilizes all of the same skills as Gaius (and even borrows his theme song, which is ultimately Nael's sans vocals but plus violin) In fact, in our first tussle with Regula, he uses all of Gaius' skills. Ceruleum fire patch, Terminus Est, Hand of the Empire, Innocence, etc.

There is, disappointingly, a bit of overlap when it comes to prominent gunblade users. I personally was really disappointed that Fordola picked up a gunblade from Zenos and immediately used Terminus Est when the first Lore Book mentions it's an exceedingly difficult technique to master. However, I do concede that it's possible Fordola had training beforehand... but it never struck me as such the first time I read 4.0

STILL MORE INC

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Yeah, I did the quests on an alt a few weeks after I wrote this up, and noticed that he does use the same moveset! That was an error I tried to correct in this re-posting, but I think it got lost when I was cutting it into 3000-character chunks, alas! It's still pretty interesting, because, like you said, those are moves that require training, and training in a specifically-Garlean weapon, and one that we've seen mostly upper-rank Garleans using (I think -- please correct me if I'm wrong here! I'm sort of new to lore and theories here, as FFX, FFXI, and FFXIV are the only FF-series games I've played...).

Minor PSA: you edit posts to get around the 3k character limit.

Some fun bits of data from the lore books, and how they fit into the larger picture...

Highlander surnames are often not hereditary like Midlander surnames are. They are usually nicknames about battle and tend to be a lot more... violent as a result. Given that Fordola is only 19 in StB, it's very likely that when Fordola became an adult (probably when she was 16ish) she went and gave herself her dad's tattoo and a surname that could only be taken as the Garlean equivalent of what the Ala Mhigans called Gaius. And then she joined up with the Legions with her friends. She's going so far out of her way to rub who she is into both side's faces (that she's of Ala Mhigan decent/cluture in the Garleans, that she's loyal to the Empire in the Ala Mhigans) that I assume she did it on purpose.

It's also worth noting that Fordola (and probably most of her friends and most of the other people in the Grania Lupi) were given an Imperial education and were born Garlean citizens. Unlike most Garlean conscripts, they aren't trying to gain their citizenship by fighting in the Legions. They are trying to gain the Garleans' respect and prove that Gyr Abanians can be as loyal to Garlean ideals as Garleans are. It's very likely that Gaius was involved in making sure the Gyr Abanians who were loyal to Garlemald were able to give their children (none of whom would have even known what a non-Garleand Gyr Abania looked like) that option. So I can see Fordola learning of Gaius' philosophy that way at least.

The timing of all of when all of this is going on is rather interesting and probably important when it comes to the forming of the Crania Lupi as well as why the Ala Mhigans respond to them the way they do. From the sound of it, the Crania Lupi are probably Fordola's idea (the Echo-vision of her and her friends joining the Legions make it sound like the Crania Lupi wasn't an option for them yet). However, given Fordola's age, this puts that event somewhere between the end of 1.0 and the start of 2.0. During this time, Gaius and the rest of the XIVth Legion were doing a bunch of things that required them to not be in Gyr Abania for the most part. This would be about the time that Gaius and part of the XIVth Legion would be constructing the castra in Eorzea after the 7th Umbral Calamity. It would also be around the time that Livia sas Junius and another part of the XIVth Legion would be helping out the IVth Legion with the Dalmascan rebellions. So after twenty year of occupying Gyr Abania, most of the XIVth Legion isn't in the region. Someone has to be keeping order and making sure the Gyr Abanian rebels don't take advantage, but no one's going to waste the fighting force they actually need on that. And Gaius really doesn't have issues with what kind of race or culture people come from so long as they are good at their job.

I can see the formation of the Crania Lupi going one of two ways. Either Fordola came up with the idea for the people who had grown up as loyal Imperials to hold Gyr Abania or Gaius gave her the idea. Either way, while the XIVth Legion had minimal personal in Gyr Abania, the Crania Lupus were formed to make up for the lost personal. So you now have Imperial Gyr Abanians occupying Gyr Abania while the actual Imperials aren't really in Gyr Abania. Unfortunately, the Gyr Abanians loyal to a free Gyr Abania hate Imperial Gyr Abanians as much (maybe even more then) the Garleans. To make this even messier, the Crania Lupi have a pretty good reason to remain loyal to the Garleans and be annoyed with Gyr Abanians as a whole. No one could ever have predicted that the Eorzean Alliance would finally get its act together and manage to stop the XIVth Legion in its tracks, let alone try to take back Gyr Abania and win. All of this puts Fordola in the hard spot of probably being hated by the Gyr Abanians for years just on principle.

The Crania Lupi enforcing Gaius' version of law in Gyr Abania comes to a screeching halt once Operation Archon happens. This isn't gone into much in-game, but Lore Book 2 gives us a pretty good idea of what happened to Gyr Abania after the XIVth Legion lost to the Eorzean Alliance. It's not long after Operation Archon that Zenos and the XIIth Legion take over Gyr Abania (probably linked to the Ivy giving Varis information). Instead of killing off the XIVth Legion members still in Gyr Abania, Zenos absorbs them into the XIIth Legion. This is probably the worst thing that could have happened to Fordola given that Zenos doesn't really care about... anything. However, it wouldn't be long after the XIIth Legion came that Solus would die and the Garlean War of Succession would break out. It would be during that time that Zenos and part of the XIIth would leave to quell the rebellion in Doma.

So Fordola has probably gone through a roller-coaster of command styles and purposes since 2.0. She's started out under Gaius' command, probably overseeing Gyr Abania in his absence. With the fall of the XIVth Legion, she's been under Zenos. Now she's on parole with the Eorzean Alliance (specifically the Flames). But who knows if she'll stay there. I can't see her not knowing what Gaius looks like under the armor and he was probably the person who she thought would give her a break in the Legion (and he did). On the other hand, Gaius is all the way off in southern Ilsabard, so who knows how he'd get to Gyr Abania again or how Fordola would get out of her parole. The Gyr Abanians would freak out if either of those things happened.

TLDR: By the time Fordola would have created the Crania Lupi, Gaius would have been out of Ala Mhigo. However they pretty much have to know each other. Gaius would be the person who oakyed the formation of the Crania Lupi and gave Fordola command of it. He might have even given her the idea of forming it in the first place as an alternative to joining the "normal" Legion. Fordola would probably have also heard a lot of Gaius's ideas when she was growing up and getting an Imperial education as a Garlean citizen. Even if they didn't personally know each other all that well, she certainly absorbed (and probably believes) a lot of his ideas and philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Uruki

It's still pretty interesting, because, like you said, those are moves that require training, and training in a specifically-Garlean weapon, and one that we've seen mostly upper-rank Garleans using (I think -- please correct me if I'm wrong here! I'm sort of new to lore and theories here, as FFX, FFXI, and FFXIV are the only FF-series games I've played...).

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Those moves, as best I can remember right now, are utilized by a small subset of Garleans, all of significant rank. Gaius, Regula, Nero, and Fordola. (Nero's gunblade usage is during a short stint as an NPC ally in the Omega storyline! However, the only skill I think he used was Innocence, the wild slashing mild tankbuster) So, in that regard, yes... however, gunblades do appear to be rather standard issue for anyone wearing the centurion armor. There's a whole lot of them who fire their gunblades at Estinien when he cuts down that magitek cannon (again working off of memory, but the dozen or so armor-clad Garleans firing at the sky is true).

So basically, the weapon is a little more common than we typically see, I think. There's probably a couple hundred gunblade users in every Legion...?

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Originally Posted by Rocl

(...snip...) There's a whole lot of them who fire their gunblades at Estinien when he cuts down that magitek cannon (again working off of memory, but the dozen or so armor-clad Garleans firing at the sky is true).

So basically, the weapon is a little more common than we typically see, I think. There's probably a couple hundred gunblade users in every Legion...?

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Oh! Thanks for the correction, I'd forgotten about that and was going off of the limited number of people we see on-screen, plus the meeting with Zenos where Fordola got the gunblade - there were only a few people there for the amount of territory they'd technically have to hold.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Minor PSA: you edit posts to get around the 3k character limit.

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Aha, good to know, thanks!

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

I can see the formation of the Crania Lupi going one of two ways. Either Fordola came up with the idea for the people who had grown up as loyal Imperials to hold Gyr Abania or Gaius gave her the idea. Either way, while the XIVth Legion had minimal personal in Gyr Abania, the Crania Lupus were formed to make up for the lost personal. So you now have Imperial Gyr Abanians occupying Gyr Abania while the actual Imperials aren't really in Gyr Abania. Unfortunately, the Gyr Abanians loyal to a free Gyr Abania hate Imperial Gyr Abanians as much (maybe even more then) the Garleans. To make this even messier, the Crania Lupi have a pretty good reason to remain loyal to the Garleans and be annoyed with Gyr Abanians as a whole. No one could ever have predicted that the Eorzean Alliance would finally get its act together and manage to stop the XIVth Legion in its tracks, let alone try to take back Gyr Abania and win. All of this puts Fordola in the hard spot of probably being hated by the Gyr Abanians for years just on principle.

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A lot of my original ideas were born out of the fact that she and Gaius are similar in a lot of ways, and she had to have learned that somewhere, plus the realization that Gaius has a ... tendency to pick up young strays along the route (Cid, Livia, possibly Nero?) and set them on their paths, be that for good or ill. In turn, that led to me reviewing the cutscenes, and the line about young Fordola getting to meet Gaius. Fordola's mother does not seem to be extremely involved in her life, given her preference to be a civilian and apparent focus on appearance/etiquette rather than direct action (which Fordola seems to prefer), so I started to wonder who actually was involved in shaping her belief system.

It's a fun theory, at least, and like I said, a hilarious mental image of pre-teen Fordola having to face "Lord Gaius".

Circling back to the quoted part above... the loss of personnel combined with Gaius' meritocratic philosophy definitely lends itself to the formation of the Crania Lupi from Garlean Ala Mhigans.

Also, on a more character-personality level, I sort of suspect that Fordola does not much care if Ala Mhigans hate her, just so long as they survive and flourish; she might care on an individual basis if the situation mirrors her own ("Daughters need their fathers," and all) but she seems to very much echo Gaius'... pragmatism?

(Oh god, the accidental pun. Sorry.)

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Originally Posted by Rocl

It'd be nice to say that the Echo is what's preventing our soul from being stripped from our bodies wholly, but that doesn't explain Alisaie, who most definitely lacks the Echo and has resisted the Calling as often as we have, so far.

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Has she "resisted" it though? Or is it just that every potential victim experiences the visions, every time that one of them is taken?

Interesting idea about the Echo shielding us, though - either that or the whole thing is going to end with us being the last to be Called, and finding out where everyone else went.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Has she "resisted" it though? Or is it just that every potential victim experiences the visions, every time that one of them is taken?

Interesting idea about the Echo shielding us, though - either that or the whole thing is going to end with us being the last to be Called, and finding out where everyone else went.

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If so, then that doesn't quite explain Krile (as far as I know), since she is a member of the Scions, she has the Echo, but she has not yet been contacted (at least according to her dialogue at the start of 4.5).

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

If so, then that doesn't quite explain Krile (as far as I know), since she is a member of the Scions, she has the Echo, but she has not yet been contacted (at least according to her dialogue at the start of 4.5).

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Thancred, Y'shtola, Urianger, Alphinaud, and Alisae all lack the echo, I thought? As far as I can recall, the only Scions with the echo were the WoL, Krile, and Minfilia (not counting the echo blessed adventurers that flocked to the Scion's banners like Arenvald).

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Originally Posted by Annana

Thancred, Y'shtola, Urianger, Alphinaud, and Alisae all lack the echo, I thought? As far as I can recall, the only Scions with the echo were the WoL, Krile, and Minfilia (not counting the echo blessed adventurers that flocked to the Scion's banners like Arenvald).

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Yeah, what I meant was that in every hypothesis I've heard, either Krile or Lyse is the odd one out for why they haven't even heard the voice, much less had their souls taken.