What is the point of Eureka?

I have been trying to figure out what the point of doing content with Eureka is. It seems like no one likes it and my FC is avoiding it like the plague. What is so horrible about it that it earns the ire of the entire player base?

Technically I guess this question can also apply to what the point of Diadem as well, though no one ever does that anymore.

There are several threads about it floating around the forums. Just put "Eureka" in the search bar and you will get more results than you will care to read.

Another option to cap tomes.

A way to gain relic weapons.

Eureka specifically is grindy content for those who enjoy a more traditional style of MMO experience.

Quest lines that don’t tell you exactly where to go so some enjoy that aspect as well.

In other words, optional content catered to players who enjoy this style of gameplay, creativity, and uniqueness.

Some players complain about it because they feel they “need” the optional weapon/experience but feel it should be easier and overly simple and quicker to complete like the rest of the game.

I personally like variety. (But not a huge fan of Eureka but that’s mostly due to having too many other fun things to do.)

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Another option to cap tomes.

A way to gain relic weapons.

Eureka specifically is grindy content for those who enjoy a more traditional style of MMO experience.

Quest lines that don’t tell you exactly where to go so some enjoy that aspect as well.

In other words, optional content catered to players who enjoy this style of gameplay, creativity, and uniqueness.

Some players complain about it because they feel they “need” the optional weapon/experience but feel it should be easier and overly simple and quicker to complete like the rest of the game.

I personally like variety. (But not a huge fan of Eureka but that’s mostly due to having too many other fun things to do.)

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Oh please. Very few people want things just handed to them. Most people like to put in effort to earn the reward. Eureka, however, is more stick than carrot for a lot of people. Great for people who think that leveling grinds from 2000 and layered RNG reward outcomes are the bee's knees. Unfun and not worth the slog for everyone else.

Considering how many topics about the instance there are OP can do a little research instead of starting yet another thread about people's opinions on why it's good or bad.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Oh please. Very few people want things just handed to them. Most people like to put in effort to earn the reward. Eureka, however, is more stick than carrot for a lot of people. Great for people who think that leveling grinds from 2000 and layered RNG reward outcomes are the bee's knees. Unfun and not worth the slog for everyone else.

Considering how many topics about the instance there are OP can do a little research instead of starting yet another thread about people's opinions on why it's good or bad.

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Oh please.

If it was more stick than carrot people wouldn’t feel the need to complain so much. (Because then they obviously just wouldnt be doing it.)

By the way there is a thing called challenge log that you can do a little bit at a time and progress steadily. Since you say it’s more stick than carrot....

There are numerous ways to do things, most people just want to complain because they do it the way everyone else is and refuse to think outside the box.

I don’t love Eureka but I also don’t hate it. I also don’t approach it in a way I won’t enjoy either. Just like this thread I responded to earlier. Someone said they were running around doing every quest they saw and were getting sick of the game and they aren’t even level 30. They said they want to roam and fight. So I told them to go roam and fight. Absolutely nothing was stopping them from doing what they wanted. But for some reason they felt they needed to do every quest. So to me it’s all user error.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Very few people want things just handed to them.

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I'm sorry you'll never convince me of this. I have far too much experience to know otherwise.

I don't want it handed to me, but I want the work to be reasonable, especially in what's supposed to be a game for entertainment. Pagos isn't, and it soured me on the entire experience.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I don't want it handed to me, but I want the work to be reasonable, especially in what's supposed to be a game for entertainment. Pagos isn't, and it soured me on the entire experience.

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I have heard that Pagos is something that everyone loathes, what is wrong with Pagos that induces such hatred? I still wonder if Eureka is even worth doing at this point or if I should skip it like Diadem.

First off, Eureka is not for everyone. It is side content, like Ultimates, Diadem, and PVP. Yes it does have the relic locked behind it, which was not a surprise as we knew that was the case when Eureka was announced. I think one of the biggest problems people have with Eureka is that it is a grind. It is literally the manifestation of a time grind in physical form. Every other Relic has been something that you needed to take weeks or months to finish for each step, and it was a symbol of Commitment and Pride. The Eureka Relic is different because it is not locked behind running dungeons over and over again with a percentage chance of getting your drop, or spending millions of gil on high end crafted items. Instead of that, you have to grind for "currency" manually and trade said "currency" in for upgrades.

Eureka isn't perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, but it does offer a different kind of player experience than other side content currently in the game. Eureka offers players an "overworld" experience with up to 140 other people all having different goals when entering, but working together to help each other. Whether it be Bunny Fate Farming, or Prepping NM Fates, or just chatting and being someone to talk to for an hour or two. It offers a community experience for a brief moment in time. The rest of the game has become known for its "One for all and All for me" attitude, where people play the game for themselves.

Eureka also offers people who do not have a lot of time to sit in queue to spam dungeons for tomes an outlet to obtain them, rather quickly I may add, in a different setting. As someone who works a lot and doesn't always have time to get a learning party together, I appreciate the ability to go into Eureka when I want, set a small goal for myself (i.e. get 2 bars of light to reroll my weapon, or get enough crystals to upgrade another weapon, or buy some Pyros gear) reach said goal and leave whenever I want. I get to meet knew people every time and have a generally good time, even if it's only for an hour.

Square definitely punched a lot of people in the gut with Pagos, and yes, Pagos was rough... a counter opposite to Anemos in fact. Pyros has done (in my opinion) a good job of bridging the gap between Anemos and Pagos, by making it easier to level yet keeping a nice amount of difficulty and keeping the time sync aspect alive without it being to overbearing. Anyway that's just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by Songwillow

I have heard that Pagos is something that everyone loathes, what is wrong with Pagos that induces such hatred? I still wonder if Eureka is even worth doing at this point or if I should skip it like Diadem.

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Pagos had several design points and changes from Anemos that a lot of players (in my experience at least) did not particularly enjoy. The first was the levelling experience. Initially, it had lower NM pop rates compared to Anemos, and the NM's also did not give as much exp. This resulted in the 'NM FATE train' that was the most popular method of leveling in Anemos being unable to be used effectively here. After this realization, people discovered that the most efficient method of gaining exp was through chaining the kills of mobs around 5 levels higher than the groups, and so became the preferred method of leveling. However, constantly killing mobs with little to no mechanics while constantly hitting buttons due the fast pace of ffxiv actions is a draining experience (not to say there weren't those who did enjoy it). To top it off, since chains have time limits, dead people who were requesting assistance would be ignored since everyone was focusing on completing their current chain, so the unfortunate players would be forced to respawn and lose exp/delevel.

Then there was the map design, and it's interactions with NMs. Pagos was essentially divided into 2 areas, north and south, with only 1 path allowing players up. This choke-point was guarded by the then-infamous Lvl40 Frozen Void Dragons, and players unaware of how aggro types worked would constantly get one-shot. To safely traverse this path requires the player to patiently work around the mobs. This means they would be slow getting to areas in the north. This would not usually be a problem, except for players around level 24-30, all the mobs they would need to efficiently level were in the north-west, as well as the level-relevant NMs. Luckily, an aetheryte existed there, BUT could only be attuned at level 29, when the player in question would almost be moving onto the next area. Now imagine if an NM popped in the south, getting there would be pretty easy, but then the players would have to walk ALL the way back to where they were before, and lets not forget when the northern NMs pop, the even lower leveled players would get left behind, accidentally getting one-shot and left for dead. This is compared to Anemos, where alot of high level players would offer rides to get the low-levels to the NMs on time.

The last thing to consider is the 'Light-grind', a necessary component in all steps of the Pagos stage of the Eureka weapon. Originally, the amount of Light people would receive from both mobs and NMs was arguably poor, and the fact that receiving Light from mobs appeared to be mostly RNG except that the odds seemed to improve with high level mobs and specifically the Dragons. As such, I have been told that there were quite a few toxic arguments over the best 'light farming' spots, though I never saw this myself. The devs also kept teasing about what they said was the most effective way of gaining Light, though to this day I am uncertain on whether they revealed what it is/was.

Nowadays, Pagos has received significant nerfs that make it alot more bearable than to what it was before. Challenge log exp increases, increased NM pop rates as well as increased NM exp were good band-aids, though people still complain about getting Light for their weapons (I do not remember if they increased Light gains eventually).

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Originally Posted by Haxaan

Eureka also offers people who do not have a lot of time to sit in queue to spam dungeons for tomes an outlet to obtain them, rather quickly I may add, in a different setting. As someone who works a lot and doesn't always have time to get a learning party together, I appreciate the ability to go into Eureka when I want, set a small goal for myself (i.e. get 2 bars of light to reroll my weapon, or get enough crystals to upgrade another weapon, or buy some Pyros gear) reach said goal and leave whenever I want. I get to meet knew people every time and have a generally good time, even if it's only for an hour.

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So much this. The great thing about Eureka for me has been that it offers an alternative route to gear/wealth progression that allows me to minimise doing content I don't particularly enjoy (lvl 70 dungeons) and outright avoid doing content I actively dislike (raids & trials). The grind is real, to be sure, and it's rare that I can entice anyone from my FC to join my expeditions, but as a casual/not very skilled player it makes a world of difference to have content that doesn't force me into groups that live or die depending on my skill level/rote-memorisation of a fight.

I respect players who go into this game looking to have their mettle tested, but it's not what draws me to the game. I'm just not very good, or even very interested in being good, at traditional-esque MMO combat, so when I go looking for challenges I look towards games with combat more my speed: e.g., Ninja Gaiden, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, etc. What I get out of FFXIV are the lore, exploration, story, characters, art, atmosphere, and a minimal amount of social interaction. Anemos has gelled quite well with my way of playing, but whether that will continue to be the case for Pagos, Pyros, and Hydatos is uncertain.

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Originally Posted by purgatori

Anemos has gelled quite well with my way of playing, but whether that will continue to be the case for Pagos, Pyros, and Hydatos is uncertain.

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Pagos MIGHT be a bit less appealing for you, but Pyros is as good as (or even better in some opinions) than Anemos, especially because the Logos system it introduces can be a lot of fun to mess around with.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Pagos MIGHT be a bit less appealing for you, but Pyros is as good as (or even better in some opinions) than Anemos, especially because the Logos system it introduces can be a lot of fun to mess around with.

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Yep, MrHappy got me hyped for Pyros. :)

Would adding something like Guildleve have helped or hurt the leveling experience?

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Would adding something like Guildleve have helped or hurt the leveling experience?

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No need imho

Give it blue exp modifier for those who want to grind it out
And add daily and weekly hunt slips for those who want to pace themselves a bit more with challenge log
Adding crystal rewards at max levels so they are not useless and so people can get crystals daily without fates.

Leves would definitely ruin it
I know everyone is sittin on 99/99 and want to blast through content asap
But leve the leves to the crafters and gatherers.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

No need imho

Give it blue exp modifier for those who want to grind it out
And add daily and weekly hunt slips for those who want to pace themselves a bit more with challenge log
Adding crystal rewards at max levels so they are not useless and so people can get crystals daily without fates.

Leves would definitely ruin it
I know everyone is sittin on 99/99 and want to blast through content asap
But leve the leves to the crafters and gatherers.

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Well Guildleve were original designed to help players level up, basically in 1.0 you would group up, grab some Leves, then head out. Since Eureka is meant to tap into the FFXI / FFXIV 1.XX feel it would make since to have a similar method of play style.

I am trying to get myself to go back to Pyros because I want that elemental armor. I am just struggling to finish up, I am sitting at 42/50 for the logograms/mmemes or whatever they are called.

I don't understand why they're crawling back to the old-school grinding model which is completely out of date.
It feels like playing a game 10-20 years ago while just looking around tells you traditional MMORPGs are dying already in today's world.
And they just keep wasting resources updating it making the recent patches seriously lack volume.
Bleh.

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Originally Posted by Songwillow

I have been trying to figure out what the point of doing content with Eureka is.

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Your 405ilvl Eureka weapon and 390ilvl Eureka gear (5 materia slots). I have had a blast in Eureka, some people aren't used to the style of the zone. Yes, it is a grind but so is raiding to get weapons/gear, this an alternative route to gearing up, which I am thankful that they added to the game.

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Originally Posted by Crux

Your 405ilvl Eureka weapon and 390ilvl Eureka gear (5 materia slots). I have had a blast in Eureka, some people aren't used to the style of the zone. Yes, it is a grind but so is raiding to get weapons/gear, this an alternative route to gearing up, which I am thankful that they added to the game.

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They've always had alternatives, but this is by far the worst version of alternate by far. The biggest reason is that it is by far the most restrictive since it requires a narrow leveled party split across multiple zones with terrible design to do. All the "relic" weapons are grinds, but they were always diverse grinds. The same could not be said of Eureka, which primarily consists of repetitive grind with no variety to it. I seriously hope they never do anything like this again for end game weapons. They would have been better off just have people killing mobs in existing zones for 1000 random crystals. The whole point of the relic weapons was that it was something that you did not need to have an entire group of people dedicated to doing and Eureka took away that away.

EDIT: I am including all of the first relic weapons including the "books" and I would definitely prefer something like that to Eureka. Please Square-Enix, never ever do something like Eureka for end game weapons ever again.

Eureka is an experimental playground for the devs to try new ideas that benefit the game in the long run. The entire point of Eureka is to break the rules and see what can be done within the logic of the game. Some things worked (logos actions, BA interior), some things didn't (pagos, BA entry), and that feedback will be taken forward into shadowbringers and beyond to improve the rest of the game.

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Originally Posted by Blanchimont

They've always had alternatives, but this is by far the worst version of alternate by far. The biggest reason is that it is by far the most restrictive since it requires a narrow leveled party split across multiple zones with terrible design to do.

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Levelling in all zones (maybe not hydatos?) is soloable, and even then I have gone into every single zone at all times of the day, and 9/10 it is populated enough to join a party and comfortably participate. I have always felt that anyone who says that party levelling is Eureka is difficult is either lying or is doing the content very wrong.

First eureka was ok, pyros was hell and hydatos, well, I cleared it, got riding and never went back. Done and done with those places.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Eureka is an experimental playground for the devs to try new ideas that benefit the game in the long run. The entire point of Eureka is to break the rules and see what can be done within the logic of the game. Some things worked (logos actions, BA interior), some things didn't (pagos, BA entry), and that feedback will be taken forward into shadowbringers and beyond to improve the rest of the game.



Levelling in all zones (maybe not hydatos?) is soloable, and even then I have gone into every single zone at all times of the day, and 9/10 it is populated enough to join a party and comfortably participate. I have always felt that anyone who says that party levelling is Eureka is difficult is either lying or is doing the content very wrong.

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If Eureka is a testing ground for devs, keep it out of the game. Keep it for testing. There's been barely anything done with Eureka and it's pretty much been just a repeat since the second zone.

Partying leveling is easy if you can actually find a party. Outside of maybe the first two weeks, the area is dead. Your party level gap is going to be 4 to 5 levels and it makes it impossible to grind mobs normally. With the data center split it has even gotten harder. You don't even have eight people in zone for a party anymore.

I never said Eureka is not soloable, but its soloable in the way you can solo Ifrit Extreme at level 70 or most FATEs. It's tedious and you're probably not getting what you're looking for. It is literally the worst designed of all the relic quests so far.

The concept is nice but the bloated HP of the mobs just makes it feel so tedious and boring that even getting the challenge log done makes me want to shoot myself after about 10 kills. I don't want things to be ridiculously easy, but HP sponge enemies that take half a century to die are not fun and have never been fun! I actually really like mindlessly killing stuff with some music on, but having to pull one at a time then taking forever to deal with each monster... I think I can live without the weapons/mounts if it means keeping the few shreds of sanity I have left.

A content based on time sink to provide another way to get things for people who enjoy this.

Personally, I can barely stand it now that has been nerfed and I think relics shouldn't be gated there.
Eureka could have its own farmy weapon and relic could go back to be a midcore level of difficulty like it was when you had to beat the 3 primals in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Eureka specifically is grindy content for those who enjoy a more traditional style of MMO experience.

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Sadly way they introduced NMs ruined that. Instead of grinding FFXI-style, Eureka has just turned into the 2.0 FATE trains with millions of trash mobs that one-shot you.

Having spent more time in Eureka I am fast becoming convinced that if criminals were sentenced to farming it, they would never re-offend!