I love healing but sometimes I get tired of all of our abilities being nothing but blinding light. Especially with 5.0 coming around the corner it highlights how silly a healer wod would be.
So I offer a question to ponder. will we ever get an edgy healer job. one that has a little bit more of a dark tone to its magic. I feel it would be a nice change of pace
Will we ever get an edgy healer?
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12-23-2018, 05:56 AMTransient_ShadowWill we ever get an edgy healer?
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12-23-2018, 06:24 AMDoozer
Well with Dancer being rumored to be the next healer, I doubt you'll get something 'edgy'.
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12-23-2018, 08:18 AMElamys
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12-23-2018, 08:32 AMSeraphorFrom well over a year ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamys
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12-23-2018, 08:40 AMTransient_ShadowNot sure why you took the effort to look through my post history. I'm also not sure how this invalidates the topic. A little variety and spice is always worth chatting about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamys
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12-23-2018, 10:34 AMSakuralunaQuote:
Originally Posted by Elamys
Even I don't tend to remember what I've posted on this forum a year and a half ago, tbh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
I tend to wonder if it's for the same reason healers so consistently get white robes when new gear models are added. I agree that more variety would be amazing, and honestly a healer job that operates more on the darker side of the character's personality and with interesting lore, much like DRK, would be interesting to explore. I remember there being some statement made in a live letter or Q&A or something a few years back that seemed to indicate the devs being hesitant to stray too far from the pure-in-spirit cleric healer stereotype as far as most content gear is concerned... (although this could just have been the statement about it being potentially confusing for new players to see mages run around in heavy armor or one job wearing another's job-specific gear, in which case I just look at the player's job icon anyway tbh.) I would love to see us get something other than white robes, or white recolors of caster gear for once. And definitely, a healer with different spell-casting visuals and lore wouldn't be an unwelcome sight.
I really liked cleric stance on whm back in ARR when it was an actual stance. It would be nice to see that sort of mechanic return on maybe a future job for those of us who enjoyed playing it. -
12-23-2018, 11:07 AMEnkidoh
We did once have an 'edgy' healer in 1.0 - it was called THM. Then Jobs were added and THM lost it's drain healing and umbral/astral spells so as to be a better fit for BLM, becoming a straight spellcaster with a weird alignment shift mechanic (CNJ becoming the dedicated healer). So I don't see SE repeating that I'm afraid.
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12-23-2018, 02:09 PMtinythinker
I don't see the idea that occurs to me as something that would be implemented in FFXIV, but how is this for edgy...
How about you cast your oGCD heals (and buffs and debuffs and other utility) using your health bar, but leech health back to yourself from enemies with mana-based attacks? Minor to average GCD heals using mana would still be out there, but wouldn't be enough to get through tough fights. This is the bare bones of the concept -- it would have elaboration on the mini-game -- but basically a very high-stakes risk and reward affair. A kind of blood magic -- take a life to save a life.
To flesh it out a bit, imagine if Benediction, Tetragrammaton, Assize, Asylum, Presence of Mind, Thin Air, and Divine Benison were fouling chunks of your health bar each time they were used, and that as long as you remained in combat the specific amount of health they cost you needed to be renewed/purified by Stone, Aero, and Holy. You would need to manage the situation to keep things from getting out of hand but would be able to really push the limits of your healing to whatever you feel comfortable with. (Maybe being able to at times even getting an extra instant cast opportunity for the oGCDs that if taken push you further into danger.)
Kind of like how in the Fallout games some of your health bar gets taken over by radiation and regular healing items can't do anything about that part of the bar -- you have to use RadAway to free up or renew that portion of the health bar. If 50% of your health bar is polluted/weakened/on-borrowed-time, you are effectively operating only at 50% of your regular max health. Normally you have 35,000 health, but you've spent 10,000 on your blood magic. It's the same as only having 25,000 health until you pay it back to yourself damaging foes.
It could (additionally or differently) work something distantly akin to a Brewmaster Monk in WoW. -
12-23-2018, 04:09 PMGemina
Edgy healer?
You mean you don't let the tank get to <10% before using Bene? -
12-23-2018, 06:06 PMTransient_Shadowlol. Honestly I should probably explain where I'm coming from with this. I've always been a huge fan of dark souls. Especially the way they treated the concepts of light and darkness. instead of the typical trope of good vs evil, light was shown as not inherently good. It was turbulent and harsh in a way and the characters tied to light were far from benign. Darkness on the other hand was peaceful and tranquil by itself. It never became a roiling abyss until agitated and corrupted by light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
This has always been my personal mantra ever since ds2 when they introduced hexes which included dark healing spells. Which is why I'm ecstatic for Shadowbringers. The idea of a healer using the tranquility of darkness to heal has always struck me as a really compelling story idea.
Both the Ast and Drk quest-lines have already illustrated that SE is willing to defy the convention of light vs dark and the healers are inherently good tropes. I mainly said 'edgy' because that's what people normally associate with the idea of a dark healer. Even though my idea falls more in line with the twilight healing in Highschool DxD -
12-23-2018, 06:29 PMGeminaDon't worry. I know what you mean, and trust me when I say I am in total favor of a dark based healer. To extend on your own experience, I loved the Spawn series of comic books which depicted as the heaven/light side of the spectrum not being a whole lot different than the hell/dark side. In fact, the angelic methods of bringing about justice were not too far off, if not worse than the demonic ones. This leads to a whole different perspective where light is villainized due to dark being outcasted and branded as evil when the two are nowhere close to being synonymous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
This game is ripe for this kind of healer TBH. A healer who heals their allies by damaging enemies basically kills two birds with one stone, and that is likely the issue with bringing such a healer into this game. It would quickly and easily blow away its competition. -
12-23-2018, 08:25 PMSunspawn
All healers have hard edges made from salt.
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12-23-2018, 09:11 PMLyth
There's a lot of that already, if you look at the lore. Nymian scholars use a lot of abilities that are based on poison and miasma. Everyone knows that those Tonberries can hold a grudge. Likewise, the Amdapoori White Mages "won" the War of the Magi by flooding the world, ushering in the Sixth Umbral Calamity. Who ever told you that light is good?
If you're talking gameplay mechanics, then yes, it'd be nice to see a healer who gains healing power through their offensive moveset. WHM would have the beginnings of this, if the Lily system was tied to Stone casts instead of Cure spells. Likewise, if Dancer ever becomes a thing, I'd like to see it as a melee based healer who applies heals as you move through your combos. Also, Drain Samba seems to be one of their recurring moves, so maybe we'll have party-wide lifesteal as a means of healing. -
12-23-2018, 10:15 PMSeraphor
Yeah, SCH is already the edgiest healer, just give us some non-faerie faerie glamours.
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12-24-2018, 09:09 AMRaikai
If Dancer rumor is really true, you won't have an edgy healer... but a coreography healer! :D
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12-24-2018, 11:43 AMRosa_FrandliaThey had it also pre-SB. I had Raise/Stoneskin/and cure as cross class skills on my THM. I was practicing Red mage basically. Only real reason I leveled it at the time was to get quick cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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12-30-2018, 09:12 AMAppleJinx
Any healer can become edgy healer when you use this macro:
/p just to prevent some missunderstandings here are 3 rules...
/p =====================================
/p 1. Bosses should be the hardest part of dungeons
/p not any trashmobs infront of them
/p -->NO rush! NO big pulls!
/p 2. I'm participate as HEALER so it is NOT my job to DPS
/p -->keep that in mind please!
/p 3. It's not needed to keep u up to 100% HP all the time
/p -->If u do everything correctly i wont let u die - I promise!
/p srsly... u wanna die? -
12-30-2018, 01:42 PMEnkidohI'm not meaning about crossclassing CNJ spells though on THM, I'm talking native healing abilities and spells that were part of the class itself - original release-version 1.0 THM really did have native healing spells, it was a 'dark' spellcaster that only cast Umbral and Astral aligned spells, healing spells were a mixture of mostly of the 'drain' or 'sacrifice your own HP to restore a party member's' variety, plus it also had quite a few debuffs to throw out as well, and thus suited the 'dark' healer angle quite nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia
Then patch 1.20 came along, Jobs were added, the battle system was altered and THM was completely changed to be a better fit for BLM (it was probably the most altered class in the game from it's original form, along with CNJ, to the point it's new ability set no longer resembled it's original form). It's remaining legacy of it's 1.0 form was the Umbral/Astral element being incorporated into it's spellcasting as a buff shift mechanic. Even the debuffs it once had were mostly given to ACN in ARR (ACN had been a class planned for 1.0 but it was never implemented).
CNJ was also changed to lose it's most of it's RDM-like elemental spells at the same time to allow it to upgrade better to WHM (fire, ice and lightning spells being given to THM) and became a straight healer (CNJ already had the usual White Magic type healing spells like Cure and Protect natively from the beginning. -
12-31-2018, 01:07 AMKalise
An dark healer could be cool.
Would also fit in nicely among the other healers. Given we have WHM who brings HoTs, SCH who brings Shields and AST who brings either HoTs or Shields.
Having some sort of dark healer who brings damage debuffs would fit in without just ending up copying one of the already established healers.
Not to mention, would be another story that would revolve around the shades of grey that exist in the world (As opposed to everything being clearly Black and White) which the Dork Knight and WHM stories cover.
In addition, would work well given the theme of the expansions. ARR being morning as it's our first foray into the post-Calamity world. Heavensward being Mid-day as the Warrior of Light travels to the highest reaches of the world (Both literally, with Dravania and the Sea of Clouds, and also metaphorically when we take on the Archbishop). Stormblood being evening, when we start to travel to the other side of the world and get surrounded by Darkness (Warriors of Darkness, Imperials, Ascians and the stuff with Prelude in Violet) and so shine less brightly. Then Shadowbringers being Twilight/Dusk as things start to become darker, both in name (Literally, the Expac's called Shadowbringers >.>) and in terms of what's suggested by way of Prelude in Violet.
Thus, as things are becoming darker, having a new "Dark" class makes some sense. Either in Shadowbringers or the following expac (Which is likely to represent Nightfall and possibly be the darkest expansion) -
12-31-2018, 04:02 AMRosa_FrandliaGot you, just saying with cross class skills we had more customization than with role skills which I miss. Maybe we can get some of that back in 5.0, but who knows at this point as letting us have all 10 role skills took out all player customization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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12-31-2018, 06:28 AMIscahThe Amdapori didn't deliberately cause the flood, or cast it like a spell - it was a Calamity brought about by both Amdapor and Mhach overusing the land's aether and disrupting the elemental balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
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12-31-2018, 07:33 AMElamysIt wasn't a matter of taking the effort to look through your post history, I just remembered you posting about this because you've posted about it before. It stuck in my head for whatever reason. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
Anyways, I think it's pretty unlikely that we're going to get an "edgy" or dark healer. The healing role implies a care for others than yourself, which is at direct opposition to how edgy or dark normally gets written. -
12-31-2018, 08:24 AMKaliseSame could be said about the Tank role. Heck, a large portion of the Warrior story is literally about how your will to keep your allies safe from harm >>>>>> Your Inner Beast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamys
Yet we still have Dork Knight, who's pretty darn edgy.
Not to mention, classes like Black Mage and Summoner who wield terrifying magics that were forbidden because of how corrupted people who used them were... Whom are using the magics to fight for good and justice and trying to stop others who may try to abuse the same power.
So, there's no reason why we couldn't have a class that uses dark powers, to heal and protect their allies, given we literally already have one that does that sans healing >.> -
12-31-2018, 11:29 AMPoisonous
This idea has probably been brought up here already but I love the idea of a necromancy-type healer!
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12-31-2018, 12:30 PMTransient_ShadowThat was one of my initial suggestions but the HW whm quest-line brought that to a screeching halt. Necromancy uses Corrupted (over aspected and unbalanced) Aether. This is not only masivly destructive to the flesh but also to the very soul. The only creatures that can ingest corrupted Aether safely are Primals and likely some void sent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poisonous
It taints the land around it and the elementals legitimately fear it. -
01-10-2019, 07:29 AMEkimmakYeah, and then there's those Dark Knights. Can't trust them, they're heretics practicing black magic!Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
... Snarking aside, you could always write in a "Everyone just does it the evil way. There's a less potent, but mostly safe way of necromancing I can teach you" retcon. -
01-10-2019, 08:39 PMTransient_ShadowDark Knight channels darkness which is an inherent aspect of aether. unbalanced aether distorts the soul and flesh. Lahabrea mentions this at the end of MSQ. It's not a moral reason why you shouldn't use necromancy but a 'scientific' reason. Not even Sharlaya uses necromancy to my knowledge and they bind voidsent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekimmak
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01-10-2019, 09:13 PMKaliseYeah, but I think what he's getting at is that although the common conception of necromancy is that it is reliant on corrupted aether and is massively damaging to the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
It's not impossible that SE will come up with some flimsy excuse for how to work it into the game. Such as "Oh, look we found this ancient Allag Tomestone that happens to recite in perfect detail some random guys research into a form of necromancy that doesn't corrupt the aether and so makes it all fine and dandy for some random adventurer to start practicing it several thousand years in the future. Also, here's a random Soul Crystal I found that belonged to this spectre of myth known only as 'The Lich' but was actually a nice guy who used his knowledge of safe necromancy to help restore balance to the world's aether. Further, here's instructions on how to call 'The Lich's' spirit to he can teach you more about how necromancy is a good thing and also give you job quests... Conveniently" -
01-10-2019, 09:21 PMTheHeavenAbyss
Yoshi-P has said before that he lets the writers come up with their ideas and then gives them to the lore team to figure out how to make them work, so the same could easily be made in regards to a Necromancer healer.
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01-10-2019, 09:25 PMShurrikhanWelp, you've just described 1.x's Thaumaturge... May it rest in piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
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01-11-2019, 05:29 AMJaywalker
Could do something with the concept of plague doctors. Focus very hard on the anatomy of healing, like bone and blood, muscle and flesh. Would be possible to do a lot of offensive spells tied to existing illness debuffs, maybe use the rotting lungs status affliction and similar. Could be called Physician or some variation? This is just me throwing ideas around, but if I was going to do something that's the route I'd go. I'd say cane or walking stick for weapon but White Mage uses those terms already and I mean Blue Mage. Maybe a cauldron where your healing is cast by channeling components through it, like potions? Alternatively a censer might look cool, and it would totally be possible to use syringes or needles. Orbs/crystal balls I think are kind of covered by Astrologian and books we got Scholar/Summoner. Mechanically a class like this could play into ideas about the body naturally having measures to heal itself and using aether/components to spur it into that process at an accelerated state. Offense moves manipulate the aether in other people's bodies to destructive effect. And in terms of visuals I think doing some kind of hat/mask/goggles combination (two out of three at least) with hats being mainly wide brimmed but flat on top would make a distinct silhouette.
That work for edgy healer pitch?